I have allowed a Private Notice Question in the names of Deputies Joe Sherlock, Proinsias De Rossa and Paddy Gallagher. Will Deputy Gallagher or Deputy De Rossa read the question.
Private Notice Question: - Office of Public Works Dispute.
(Waterford) asked the Minister of State at the Department of Finance what steps he is taking to ensure that the employees of the Office of Public Works are paid by cash until the question relating to the payment by cheque is resolved.
Clare): A meeting took place yesterday between officials of the Office of Public Works and the union officials representing workers in dispute at which certain proposals were put forward by the unions for consideration. The Office of Public Works indicated that they would reply to the proposals on Friday and they are at present considering them.
(Waterford): There are 350 people affected by this dispute. We have seen them outside the gate for the last few days marching up and down. Will the Minister confirm that while this dispute is going on they are not the guilty party and that under the Trucking Act there is a legal obligation on the Board of Works to ensure that those people are paid by cash? What steps is the Minister of State taking to ensure that this will happen?
(Clare): I would like to point out that before this action was taken regarding changing over to cheque payments legal considerations were taken into account. We did not make this change by our own choice. It was on the strongest possible advice from the Garda authorities that life would be endangered if we continued to take large amounts of cash to different centres throughout the city and paid it out. I would also like to point out that the unions responsible for the people paying out the cash and holding it were advised by the Garda Síochána that they should not be put in jeopardy in this manner. We decided, because of these two factors, to pay by cheque. The deadline set by the unions and the associations representing the people who pay the cash gave us the deadline of 30 April last. We complied with the wishes of the Garda Síochána and the employees paying out the cash. I also wish to point out that out of a total of 3,000 industrial employees employed by the Office of Public Works 2,700 have accepted payment by cheque. I would further point out that we made arrangements last week in our own office to cash the cheques for them. We will still do this if we are required to do so.
(Waterford): How long does the Minister of State anticipate that those arrangements will last? Is he not aware that previous arrangements were made with other sectors of the public service regarding the payment of cheques and whilst arrangements were made with the various Departments to pay out the money, several weeks afterwards that arrangement was discontinued. We find a situation where employees of the Office of Public Works who live in the suburbs are granted three-quarters of an hour in which to go to a particular bank to change those cheques but, in effect, what is happening is that they are being referred to the branch of the bank in their own localities. The requisite time, therefore, is not allowed to them to change their cheques.
(Clare): Official identity cards are available to those employees to assist them to cash their cheques easily wherever they go.
I can understand the concern of the Minister of State and also of the Garda authorities. Is he aware that according to one authoritative source the Department may not only be acting illegally in paying by cheque but may well be acting unwisely, in so far as, even though those people are paid by cheque, under the Trucking Act it could be held they are not properly paid and the employees could look for payment a second time in cash? I have been advised by one solicitor that that could be the case. Is the Minister of State aware that many of those employees are encountering difficulty at banks by being referred to the assistant manager to have the cheques initialled and going through various humiliating procedures? Would the Minister of State not agree that he should have gone through the proper trade union procedures in having this thing established? Would he not now have the matter referred to arbitration and in the meantime return to the normal procedure?
(Clare): As I said discussions took place yesterday between officials of the Office of Public Works and the trade unions representing those people. We have indicated that we will reply to those proposals tomorrow. The unions are involved in this, particularly the unions representing the people who are responsible for holding and paying the cash. They gave us a deadline with regard to the changeover. On the question of the difficulty in cashing cheques, I would remind the House that payment is by cheque throughout the entire public service. In order to facilitate further the employees concerned we are prepared to give them official identity cards which should lessen any difficulty they may experience in cashing cheques. This should also lessen the difficulty to which the Deputy referred, that is, the referring of these people to the banks in their own areas. That would not be likely to happen in the event of their using official indentity cards.
Mr. Taylor rose.
(Waterford): Is the Minister aware——
I am allowing one final supplementary from Deputy Gallagher.
(Waterford):——that these people have not been paid for the past fortnight and that because they are reporting for work, clocking in and out each day, they are being denied supplementary social welfare benefits? While these negotiations are continuing between the Office of Public Works and the unions concerned would the Minister ensure that supplementary benefits of some kind are paid to these people?
Will the Minister make a statement on this matter today?
(Clare): The question of supplementary benefits is not one for my Department. I might add also that some of the employees accepted payment by cheque last week.