Vol. 466 No. 8
4 Mr. Dempsey asked the Minister for the Environment the steps, if any, he proposes to take to strengthen the hand of local authorities dealing with tenants who are involved with drugs or other anti-social behaviour. [12439/96]
65 Mr. D. Wallace asked the Minister for the Environment his views on the adequacy of current regulations regarding the management of anti-social behaviour by tenants of local authority housing. [9300/96]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 65 together.
Local authorities have a range of statutory powers available to them under housing legislation in relation to the management of their dwellings. It is the responsibility of each authority, as part of its housing management operations, to take the steps it considers necessary to deal with tenants involved in anti-social behaviour.
Dwellings are let by housing authorities subject to the terms of letting agreements drawn up by the authorities in accordance with the Housing Regulations, 1980. The agreements must, under article 83 of the regulations, include a condition that a tenant shall not cause any nuisance or be guilty of, or permit, any conduct likely to cause annoyance or disturbance to neighbours. Adequate legal powers are available to the authorities to take action where there is a breach of a letting agreement.
Legislation, which is kept under review in consultation with local authorities, is only part of the solution to anti-social behaviour. Equally important is the management of their estates by local authorities. That is why a range of initiatives and incentives have been introduced by my Department to assist them to improve their performance in this crucial area.
While good estate management practices by local authorities have an important role to play in overcoming anti-social behaviour in housing estates, including drug-related issues, incidents of this nature are primarily a matter for the Garda.
The Minister has again attempted to place the onus for this issue on local authorities. Has she made regulations on the management and control of local authority houses under section 58 of the 1966 Act to prohibit people engaged in drug dealing from becoming tenants and to allow local authorities to evict such people? The Minister has specific power under this section to make these regulations mandatory on local authorities and will she do so?
Local authorities have power to invoke the provisions of an encompassing section which states that the tenant shall not cause any nuisance or be guilty of or permit any conduct likely to cause annoyance or disturbance to his neighbours. That is a broad description of the reasons action can be taken by local authorities to deal with tenants. In Dublin Corporation. cases which have been taken against people guilty of anti-social behaviour have been successful, while other local authorities are developing similar approaches to deal with the drug problem.
I take very seriously the proper management of housing estates. A housing management group is working on this issue and will report to me shortly. I have also embarked on a series of estate management programmes on a pilot basis. I am committed to the principle of the good management of estates which is part of the solution to dealing with anti-social behaviour of whatever type. However, I am under no illusions about how difficult it is to deal with this problem or about the need for integrated action in conjunction with the Garda. My Department and the Department of Justice are represented on the national co-ordinating committee on drug abuse under the chairmanship of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Shea. This integrated approach has been developed by the Government in recognition of the seriousness of the problem of drug abuse. I will continue to develop good estate management and good management of tenancies in an effort to combat this real problem.
I take it from the Minister's reply that she will not take action under section 58 of the 1966 Act. Will she take action under section 111 of the Act which allows her to intervene in cases where local authorities are not taking action? With one or two notable exceptions, it is clear that local authorities are not taking action in this area. The Minister could send out a strong signal to local communities and law abiding residents of estates if she intervened under section 111 of the 1966 Act.
I take this issue so seriously that I set up a group of senior people, including county managers, public representatives and senior officials in my Department, to look at it. Intervention by me on a case by case basis would not serve any worthwhile purpose. What is required is good estate management by local authorities who would work in partnership with residents. That is the most effective bulwark we can erect against drug abuse and crime in local authority estates. I do not underestimate the difficulty of dealing with this problem or believe there are instant solutions to it. We must build a partnership between residents and local authorities so that estates are effectively managed. I am doing this speedily when one considers that I have not yet received the report of the group who engaged in wide-ranging consultations with the various bodies involved in the development of good estate management.
I agree with the need for good estate management but in some estates in my constituency the problem is completely out of control. Dublin Corporation is not happy about what is going on.
I must insist on questions, this is Question Time.
Did the Minister see the Dublin Corporation report on the changes which are required? Local groups are unhappy and want action to be taken. They believe the local authorities, the Garda and public representatives are failing to deal with the problem and are going to very dubious groups for help.
I want to help the Deputy to elicit information but I have an obligation to see to it that Question Time is adhered to. The Deputy must proceed by way of questions and not statements——
This is a very important issue.
——or argument.
Is the Minister aware of what is happening? Action is urgently required to deal with this problem, which has never been as bad in some inner city flat complexes.
I understand the Deputy's deep concern and sense of frustration about this issue. Drugs are a problem not only in Dublin and Cork but in most areas. I am concentrating considerable effort in dealing with it and am interested in cases where proper estate management has produced results. In the Ard Bhaile estate in Cork good management is delivering commendable results. I share the Deputy's concerns but I do not want to leap ahead of the work being done. It is a question of learning what action works. I am not looking for glib answers to the problem as the solution is not an easy one. However, it is important to build partnership between local authorities and tenants on the basis of good management and to ensure that local authorities use their powers where necessary and set up and finish tenancies properly and with full information. I support the approach taken by Dublin Corporation which is the key to the way forward.
If the Deputy will submit particular views or points to me, I will consider them very seriously. We have taken many submissions to the housing management group, which first arose when we presented our Estimates to the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs. I ask that anybody with views on this issue submit them to me. I advertised in the media asking that submissions be sent to my Department. I do not think the Deputy submitted any at that time but I will welcome his doing so now if he wishes.
Does the Minister agree that her Department must give local authorities the requisite tools to undertake the task? When she speaks of a partnership with residents and tenants, does she agree that the message needs to be conveyed to these people that we are serious and will take a tough line? While holding out carrots may be fine, there is need for using a little more stick. The Minister also spoke about the powers of local authorities which, while appearing broad on paper, are proving almost impossible of enforcement in the courts. Surely the Minister must recognise that rules and the law must be changed, that she cannot expect people to give evidence in court against their neighbours. She must recognise that it does not work like that. There is much fear and intimidation involved. Would the Minister please devise some new powers to enable a county manager or whoever to go into court and say he believes the tenant in such and such a house is a drugs dealer? He should not have to bring 20 neighbours into court to prove they had seen him selling drugs on the street. If the Minister will vest more powers in local authorities, she will get greater co-operation in this partnership about which she speaks.
When we finally evict the few people we want evicted, will the Minister of State make representations to her party leader to ensure that those evicted cannot then apply to their local health clinic and obtain a weekly rent allowance of a couple of hundred pounds to rent a house in a private area? We must take cognisance of the fact that we are giving the wrong message. Will the Minister adopt a tough line and do something constructive?
I have already asked the housing management group, comprising very senior people dealing with housing in the Dublin Corporation area, to make recommendations in this regard. Our experience in the courts has been that, in certain cases, neighbours' evidence has not been introduced.
And rent allowances?
The Deputy will be aware that I have already embarked on the process of transferring the administration of social welfare allowances to local authorities. This is quite a complex move which will take some time. It is a very important one because it will overcome the difficulty he mentioned, that of two different Departments dealing with what is essentially a housing provision. The Government's commitment in A Government of Renewal is significant in regard to housing. When that transfer occurs, local authorities will determine all the various options in relation to housing provision, including rent allowances.
Has the Minister a target date?
Let us get it right. I am not in the business of setting target dates unless I can honour them. It is quite a complex matter.
Time is of the essence.
While on the surface it might not appear so, I can assure the Deputy it is complex. It will have a significant beneficial impact on local authorities, streamlining overall housing provision, whether local authority or other, right across the housing spectrum, including for the first time rent allowances. I want to ensure it is done properly. There are many dimensions to this question but at the end of the day this transfer will ensure that rent allowances are administered by local authorities, where they belong.
The powers available to Dublin Corporation and local authorities generally are slow, cumbersome and yield little or no success. There has been only one eviction from a notorious flats complex, involving drugs. The person evicted was rehoused immediately by the Eastern Health Board around the corner. That is the reality and is a totally ineffective response to the drugs problem being experienced in inner city flat complexes. Does the Minister agree that a more immediate, urgent response is warranted on the part of her Department? Have there not been numerous discussions between departmental and Dublin Corporation officials on this issue? Is it not the case that, whenever a private landlord seeks the eviction of a tenant who is not protected, he experiences no difficulty whatever in securing that eviction but whenever a local authority such as Dublin Corporation seeks to get rid of a problem tenant or drugs dealer for very good, social reasons, it is at the mercy of the courts and, in many instances, fails to secure such evictions?
Eviction proceedings are taken in court, whether involving a private landlord or local authority. The housing management group is discussing this and other related questions with regard to estate management. We could get totally hung up on this aspect and not examine all the various elements involved in combating this problem.
I cannot comment on the particular incident to which the Deputy referred. I was responsible for having initiated a co-ordinated strategy on homelessness between the Eastern Health Board, Dublin Corporation and the other local authorities in the greater Dublin area, something to which I can rightly refer whenever there is a breakdown of liaison between the health board and Dublin Corporation. If he wishes, the Deputy can let me have details of that incident. In regard to emergency accommodation, the problem until I took that initiative was that of a constant gap between two statutory authorities, recognised by those authorities as well as by the voluntary sector. For the first time, we now have a proper, co-ordinated approach. An administrator is about to be engaged to co-ordinate these services. That is the appropriate arena within which to raise the Deputy's point.
While we all agree on the seriousness and urgency of tackling this problem of drugs and drug-related activities in local authority housing, what action does the Minister envisage taking over, say, the next three, four, five or even six months to overcome it and improve the position overall? What specific action does she intend taking rather than merely sitting waiting for an interminable number of committees to report back to her?
There is not an interminable number of committees. There is one, with a very strict brief, due to report to me very soon. I do not want to pre-empt that report but it has undertaken a considerable amount of work, drawing on its members' experiences in addition to considering submissions made to them. A recent conference was held with the object of widening the base of its deliberations.
I hope its report will be forthcoming faster than the one on Sellafield.
Another Member of the Deputy's party tabled a recent parliamentary question asking what I had done since assuming office. The very long list of initiatives for which I was responsible was a sufficient answer for him. I can assure the Deputy that my record——
It must have impressed the Minister herself.
——is of a series of considerable successes and achievements which I intend to continue in the future.
I do not consider I can be accused of complacency. I take this issue very seriously. I have introduced the pilot scheme initiative in conjunction with the establishment of the housing management group. If we are to draw on the advice and best experience of local authorities and residents, I must ensure I have the best advice and I expect to have it shortly.
