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Interim Report of the
Joint Commitee on Justice, Equality, Defence

and Women's Rights on the
Garda investigation of the shooting of Mr. John Carthy
at Abbeylara on 20th April, 2000


The Secretary General
Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform
72/76 St. Stephen's Green
Dublin 2.

 

Re: Investigation into the circumstances surrounding the events at Toneymore, Abbeylara, Co. Longford on Wednesday / Thursday, 19th / 20th April, 2000 which resulted in the death of John Carthy, 27 years.

On learning of the fatal shooting of Mr. John Carthy at Toneymore, Abbeylara, Co. Longford on Thursday, 20th April, 2000 I appointed Chief Superintendent Adrian Culligan, Anglesea Garda Station, Cork City Division to investigate all the circumstances surrounding the events at Toneymore, Abbeylara on Wednesday / Thursday, 19th / 20th April, 2000 which resulted in the death of Mr. John Carthy. In particular the following aspects were to be addressed :

  • A file was to be prepared for submission to the Director of Public Prosecutions including recommendations, or otherwise, as to whether criminal charges should be preferred.
  • All necessary documents were to be prepared for the Coroner.
  • The effectiveness, or otherwise, of the Garda operation was to be assessed.

Chief Superintendent Culligan and his investigation team from Cork commenced his investigation on 21stApril, 2000 and submitted his report to me on Wednesday, 28thJune, 2000. Hereunder is an outline of his report:

At 5.25pm on the 19th April, 2000 the Gardaí at Granard, in whose administration area Toneymore, Abbeylara is situated, received a phone message from Rose Carthy, mother of John, seeking Garda assistance. It appears that around 3.40pm John Carthy had taken his legally held shotgun from a locker in their home, loaded it and fired two shots from the front door. His mother being afraid that he would harm himself alleges she left the house after he had fired the first shot and went to her sister's home, some 100 yards away. The investigation will show that in fact she remained in the house for over an hour during which period a further two shots were discharged.

1.2. In response to this call, two (2) Gardaí went to the location in a marked Garda patrol car. One (1) of the Garda members was wearing a civilian jacket and flak jacket over his uniform shirt and was armed. The other member was in uniform. On entering the property they heard two (2) shots being discharged. They retreated and awaited further armed back-up. On the arrival of this response, two Gardaí in an unmarked Garda car, drove into the driveway, parked and made their way to the front door. At this point they heard breaking glass and the discharge of a further shot. They became concerned for their personal safety and had to seek cover. Reinforcements were made available, surrounding the house at Toneymore, with an inner and outer cordon. Initial negotiations were commenced by local Gardaí in an effort to entice John Carthy from the house, with negative results. Over the course of the siege, he discharged 30 shots in all, some fired indiscriminately and others directed at Gardaí in the immediate area.

1.3 Protracted negotiation over a 25 hour period, by Garda Negotiators and civilians, failed to entice Carthy from his home. At 5.45pm, on 20th April, 2000, John Carthy suddenly exited the house, carrying a shotgun, despite many exhortations by Gardaí to put the weapon down, he failed to do so. At this stage the lives of Gardaí were deemed to be at risk and John Carthy was fatally wounded.

2. LOCATION
2.1. John Carthy lived with his widowed mother, Rose, in the townland of Toneymore, Abbeylara, Co. Longford in an old labourers cottage. It is situated on a minor road that leads from Abbeylara to Ballywillian and is approximately 2½ miles north of Granard, Co. Longford. A new bungalow, built by Longford Council, for the Carthy family, is situated on land provided by the Carthys. At the time of this incident it was unoccupied. Since the incident the cottage has been demolished.

3. BACKGROUND OF JOHN CARTHY
3.1. John Carthy was born on 9th October 1972 to John Carthy, Snr., and his wife, Rose, who married in August 1972. They had two children, John and Marie. His father died in 1990, aged 72 years. John lived at home with his widowed mother in Abbeylara, in what can only be described as very poor circumstances.

3.2. He attended primary School in Abbeylara and from there went to the Vocational School in Granard where he sat his Intermediate Certificate and continuing to Leaving Certificate. In 1991 he repeated his Leaving Certificate at the Convent in Granard. After 2nd level he attended Warrenstown Agricultural College, Co. Meath to study Horticulture. He remained there for over a year before returning home suffering from depression. He was seen by his General Practitioner, Dr. Cullen and was admitted to St. Loman's Psychiatric Hospital, Mullingar on the 25th March, 1992.

This was to be his first of four admissions to Hospital, all on a voluntary basis. Medical History is dealt with at Paragraph 6.

3.3. He subsequently secured work at a Garden Centre in Abbeylara and afterwards at the bakery of "Pat the Baker" in Granard during 1993. After this he sought employment in the building trade, both as a labourer and plasterer, in Longford, Granard and Galway.

3.4. He had a sporting interest in Clay Pigeon Shooting, but appeared not to have been very active. He showed little interest in field sport activities. His alleged prowess as a handballer, is overstated.

3.5. His main social outlet was, drinking, which caused difficulty between himself and his mother. Drinking while on medication resulted in mood swings.

4. RELATIONSHIP
4.1. John Carthy appeared to be introverted and was a poor mixer. However, on 21st January 2000, he formed a relationship with a Kathleen McNamara, Galway City and Westport, Co. Mayo. This relationship lasted only a number of weeks due to his mood swings. It ended acrimoniously and he subsequently wrote two letters to her.

4.2. In his first letter to her, dated 26th February, 2000, he is deeply apologetic for the upset and annoyance he has caused her and explains that because he gets "elated" from time to time it has prevented him getting deeply involved with anyone until he met her. He states that she is the first he has told about his problem. He explains his "high" to her, "everything must be instant", "makes him impatient and argumentative" and has "racing thoughts" which he says "causes a lot of frustration and upset to loved ones". He states that, the way he has been acting irrationally over the last couple of weeks has not happened for over 5 years. He speaks of his love for her and looks for a second chance to meet.

4.3 His second letter to her, in March 2000, has a different tone and he questions her regarding the "Fortune Teller" and demands an explanation as to why she was not seeing him.

 

4.4. His written declaration of current actions, which had not happened for 5 years, is very significant.

 

5. JOHN CARTHY'S FINANCIAL SITUATION
5.1. In settlement of a personal injury accident claim John received £18,800. He lodged this sum with the Bank of Ireland in Longford on the 11th September, 1998. During the following ten (10) months he had disposed of this money in total. This investigation found he had a gambling habit.

6. MEDICAL HISTORY
6.1. John Carthy had as his General Practitioner, Dr. Pat Cullen, Lakeview House, Coole, Co. Westmeath since 1988. He first treated John for depression which resulted in him been admitted to St. Loman's Psychiatric Hospital, Mullingar, for a period from 25th March,1992 to 6th April, 1992 as a voluntary patient. On admission he stated that he had been depressed for three (3) months previously and described suicidal ideation and had, at times, a death wish. The diagnosis was of an endogenous depressed illness. He was treated with "Gamanil" and "Xanax". On his being discharged he attended Dr. Cullen monthly for the subsequent three (3) months.

6.2. In March 1993 he again attended Dr. Cullen in relation to an accident at work which resulted in visits over the next two months. The doctor felt the injury was stress related and he re-admitted John for the second time to St. Loman's, Mullingar on the 19th July, 1993 remaining there until 4th August, 1993 as a voluntary patient. Eight (8) days later, on 12th August, 1993, he was re-admitted for the third time and remained until 30th August 1993.

He was prescribed "Gamanil" and "Melleril". He was therefore, excluding one week, hospitalised from 19th July, 1993 to 30th August, 1993.

6.3. He seems to have coped with his depression until 18th January, 1995 when he was again re-admitted for the fourth time to St. Loman's remaining until 14th February, 1995. Dr. Cullen continued the medication as prescribed during his time in St. Loman's.

6.4 On the 4th April, 1995 he again visited Dr. Cullen and requested that he would be referred to Dr. David Shanley, Consultant Psychiatrist, St. Patrick's Hospital in Dublin. On the 11th April, 1995 Dr. Shanley saw John and prescribed "Lithium".

6.5. From May 1995 to December 1996 he attended Dr. Cullen monthly for prescriptions and intermittent blood tests. The "Lithium" readings were within normal range in these tests. He also attended Dr. Shanley every two months during 1995. He failed to keep an appointment with Doctor Shanley on 1st December, 1995.

6.6. In February 1997 John attended Dr. Cullen after been involved in a road traffic accident. He was referred to Dr. McGill in Mullingar Hospital in connection with that accident.

6.7. On 2nd April, 1997 John Carthy returned to Dr. Shanley's care. He attended the doctor on five (5) occasions between 2nd May, 1997 and 9th January, 1998. These visits mainly concerned John having nightmares. He continued to see Dr. Shanley, approximately every 8 weeks during 1998.

6.8. On the 5th August, 1998 he was prescribed his medication by Dr. Cullen. However, he returned again on 10th August, 1998, stating he was "high" as he had been drinking all weekend.

6.9. On the 13th August, 1998 he again attended Dr. Cullen with a pain in his hip and on the 25th September, 1998 he attended Dr. Cullen after allegedly having been assaulted in the Garda Station in Granard. He was referred to Mullingar Hospital for x-ray. This is further expanded at Paragraph 11.5.

6.10. When John Carthy attended Dr. Shanley on 8th October, 1998 there was no evidence of depression or elation. He returned on 30th November, 1998 when he was considered to be clinically depressed.

6.11. From the 26th December, 1998 to 5th January, 1999 he was a patient at University College Hospital, Galway, again suffering from depression. He was re-admitted there on the 11th January, 1999 until 13th January, 1999 under the care of Professor Fahy.

6.12. He was seen again by Dr. Shanley on four (4) occasions between the 29th January, 1999 and the 11th June,1999.

6.13. On the 17th February, 2000 he attended Dr. Meagher, Coole, Co. Westmeath, who is in practice with John's G.P. Dr. Cullen, seeking a Medical Certificate stating that he was suffering from depression.

6.14. On the 29th February, 2000, when he attended Dr. Cullen he was "high" and his dosage of Stelazine was increased, it was reduced again on 10th March, 2000. That was John's final visit to the Doctor.

6.15. John Carthy had been on continuous medication for manic depression since 1992. He was prescribed the following drugs, which were mostly dispensed at McEvoy's Medical Hall, Granard (Camolit, Prothiaden, Stelazine, Melleril, Lithium, Pinamox, Zimavone, Distalgesic).

6.16. On the day before the siege, 18th April, 2000, he had been dispensed at Stenson's Pharmacy, Shopping Mall, Longford the following medication : Lithium (120 tablets), Prothiaden (30 tablets) and Stelazine (30 tablets). These tablets and containers are not listed among the drugs found in his home during the forensic examination, after the siege.

7. JOHN CARTHY'S FIREARM
7.1. John Carthy was the holder of a legally held firearm, a Baikal make, double barrel shotgun, serial number 9013898, purchased from Reynolds Ballinalee, Co. Longford, a licensed firearms dealer, at the time of licensing.

7.2. At this time he was 20 years old and had a keen interest in guns, was a member of the Abbeylara Gun Club, but not an active participant. He ceased to be a member of this Club in 1994 having failed to renew his annual subscription.

7.3. His Firearm Certificate was renewed annually from 1992 up to and including the current year.

7.4. There is a mention of a second gun, however this investigation is satisfied that the only weapon available to Carthy is the one as described.

8. THREATS
8.1. During the Summer of 1998 a number of people in the Abbeylara area expressed concern about Carthy's suitability to hold a firearm.

8.2. Patrick (Pakie) McCormack, a local retired farmer, said that on one occasion John was in the Handball Alley in Abbeylara Village. Some local children were playing there. John was of the opinion that no one would play handball with him. McCormack recalls John saying that he was going to bring the gun down and shoot all in the Handball Alley.

8.3. John Gilligan, a local farmer and was the P.R.O. of the Handball Club, was made aware of these remarks from McCormack. Gilligan became concerned about this alleged threat and made the Gardaí at Granard aware of it.

8.4. Evelyn McLoughlin, local housewife and wife of Brendan McLoughlin, plasterer, also became aware of these threats. At this time Evelyn's husband, Brendan, had an ongoing dispute with John, having received a letter from Mr. Mark Connellan, solicitor, alleging unfair dismissal. Brendan McLoughlin had employed John Carthy as a builder's labourer but he had terminated his employment following a trivial argument. This dispute, coupled with the threats made at the Handball Alley, made Evelyn McLoughlin very concerned that John may use the firearm. She contacted the Gardaí at Granard Garda Station and expressed her fears to them.

9. CONFISCATION OF FIREARM
9.1. On or about the 10th August, 1998 Garda Oliver Cassidy of Granard Station called to John Carthy's house. Following a discussion with Carthy, Garda Cassidy took possession of Carthy's firearm, while continuing his enquiries into the alleged threats. Despite all enquiries, no written complaints were made to Gardai.

9.2. John Carthy called to Granard Garda Station on several occasions to seek the return of his firearm and spoke to the then District Officer, now retired Superintendent Denis Cullinane.

9.3. Carthy was informed of the verbal allegations made against him. His medical condition was also discussed. He denied that he had threatened anyone with the firearm. He informed the Superintendent that his depression was now under control. Subsequently the Superintendent received a letter, dated 13th October, 1998 from Mr. David Shanley, Consultant Psychiatrist, St. Patricks Hospital, Dublin.

9.4. In his letter Mr. Shanley stated, how he had recently seen John Carthy and it was his opinion John was now a fit person to hold a firearm. He also stated that if John's condition changed, his local General Practitioner would contact the Superintendent in Granard. However, this commitment by Dr. Shanley was never fulfilled, even though Carthy's mental condition had changed, when examined during five consultations between 30th November, 1998 and 11th June,1999.

9.5. Having received letters from Dr. Shanley and Mrs Rose Carthy, in which they expressed no concern in relation to John having possession of a firearm the Superintendent then took the view that in the absence of written complaints as to threats, he had no legal justification in retaining the firearm and consequently had it returned on the 13th November, 1998.

Subsequent to the date of return, two further threats were made - one on Saturday, 15th April, 2000 and one on Tuesday, 18th April, 2000. These are dealt with at Paragraph 15.1 & 15.15.

9.6. There is a provision in the Firearms Act, 1925 at Section 5(b) for a Superintendent to revoke a Firearm Certificate when he is satisfied that the holder of such Certificate 'is a person who cannot, without danger to the public safety or to the peace, be permitted to have a firearm in his possession'.

10. AMMUNITION
10.1. Extensive enquiries carried out with all Firearms Dealers in the Longford/Westmeath area have shown that the last, and only, record of Carthy purchasing ammunition was in 1998 in Dennistons & Co., Centenary Square, Longford when he purchased two boxes of cartridges which contained a total of fifty rounds. The ammunition boxes found in Carthy's home have been identified as coming from Dennistons.

11. GOAT MASCOT
11.1. In late 1998 when Abbeylara G.A.A. Club, Co. Longford, reached the County Final, local Publican, William Crawford, had a mascot, resembling a goat, conveyed to Abbeylara and bedecked in the Abbeylara G.A.A. colours and positioned on the village green.

11.2. Criminal Damage to Mascot
Three nights after the County Final the mascot was set on fire and extensively damaged. The trustee of the mascot, William Crawford, was informed by a local youth that John Carthy was responsible for the damage. The Gardaí were subsequently informed of this information by William Crawford.

11.3. Arrest of John Carthy – Granard - 1998
The burning was investigated by Garda Turlough Bruen of Granard Garda Station and, following a personal call to John Carthy's house by him on the 24th September, 1998, he arrived, by arrangement, to Granard Garda Station, at 7.30pm on that date. There he was arrested, for the arrestable offence of criminal damage to the mascot and was detained pursuant to the provisions of Section 4 Criminal Justice Act 1984 by Garda Frank Bohan for the proper investigation of the crime. During John Carthy's detention he denied any involvement in the crime when interviewed by Gardai Bruen and McHugh. He was detained from 7.36pm to 10.35pm on the 24th September, 1998 (three hours). When he was released without charge he signed the Custody Record acknowledging he had no complaints.

11.4. On release from Granard Garda Station, John Carthy contacted Bernard Reilly, a friend of his from Abbeylara, who conveyed him home. In conversation with Bernard Reilly he said how Gardaí had treated him roughly at the Station. No visible injuries were apparent to Mr. Reilly. Other persons later became aware of the alleged mistreatment of John Carthy during his arrest.

11.5. Following his release from Granard Garda Station he attended Dr. Cullen the following day alleging he had been assaulted in Granard Garda Station and complaining of pain in his neck. Dr. Cullen referred him to the Casualty Department at Mullingar Hospital. He attended there on the 25th September 1998 and underwent an x-ray which revealed no injuries. The doctor did not find evidence of assault.

11.6. Following this arrest he was taunted by locals in relation to the burning of the goat. This continued to the weekend before the siege and caused him a lot of concern and he expressed animosity towards the Gardaí.

11.7. There is no evidence to suggest that John Carthy was assaulted in Granard Garda Station nor was a complaint made to the Garda Síochána Complaints Board.

11.8. This investigation is satisfied that John Carthy was not responsible for the burning of the goat.

11.9. Apart from this incident, the confiscation of his shotgun in 1998 and his arrest in Galway in February, 2000, the Gardaí had no other interaction with John Carthy.

12. JOHN CARTHY'S TIME IN GALWAY
12.1. During Christmas 1998 John Carthy and his mother, Rose, visited Galway to stay with John's sister, Marie. While there John was admitted to University College Hospital, Galway for treatment for manic depression. He was re-admitted on 26th December 1998 until 6th January 1999 and on 11th/13th January 1999.

12.2. In February 1999 John Carthy commenced work, in Galway, with Bernard Smith, a builder, originally from Abbeylara. This employment continued for some months, terminating, due to lack of work, in August 1999. During his stay in Galway he became a patient of Dr. Bluett, G.P.

12.3. On the 24th August, 1999 he commenced work with P.J. Hegarty & Co at the Edward Square site in Galway. He was employed as a general labourer. There he became friendly with a number of people, most especially Martin Shelly (nickname "Pepper"), Kevin Ireland and Gerry Traynor.

12.4. On the 17th January, 2000, as John Carthy had decided to go plastering, he gave P.J. Hegarty's two (2) weeks notice. However, he alleged improper practice against the foreman - for which he (Carthy) was sacked on the 18th January, 2000. The following day he started work as a plasterer with Dermot O'Connor, D.O.C. Plastering. This job only lasted one day because of the quality of his work. At this stage Carthy contacted S.I.P.T.U. and took an action against P.J. Hegarty's for wrongful dismissal. When not getting the required result from S.I.P.T.U. Carthy placed a picket on the Edward Square site on the 1st February, 2000.

It was only after getting advice from S.I.P.T.U. officials that Carthy withdrew the picket at 9.40am. For the unfair dismissal he received a settlement of £1,140.

12.5. Arrest of John Carthy – Galway – Under Mental Treatment Act
On 20th February, 2000 Carthy having had a disagreement with his girlfriend socialised that night with his sister, Marie and Martin Shelly. They met in The Goalpost Pub where John was already drinking, from there they went to another pub. There, Carthy got into an argument, before being served. All three were asked to leave. From there they went to Supermacs, Eyre Square, Galway. Because of Carthy's behaviour, his sister, Marie, approached Garda Mary Ann O'Boyle, Mill Street Garda Station, Galway, on the street and asked if she could do something with her brother as she feared for his safety, he was suicidal and she expressed a wish to have him certified under the Mental Treatment Act.

12.6. Having been fully briefed as to his mental condition Garda O'Boyle arrested John Carthy under the Mental Treatment Act and brought him to Mill Street Garda Station. Dr. Dympna Horgan, G.P. and colleague of Dr. Bluett, John 's G.P. in Galway, was called to the station to examine John Carthy. By the time the doctor had examined Carthy, his sister, Marie, had changed her mind in relation to committal, consequently Carthy was released into his sister's custody.

12.7. The arrest of Carthy, as described at 12.5, was not communicated to the Gardai at Granard

13. JOHN CARTHY'S ASSOCIATION WITH KEVIN IRELAND
13.1. Kevin Ireland 23 years old, originally from Brianstown, Longford, moved to Galway in July, 1999 and commenced work with P.J. Hegarty & Sons at the Edward Square site commencing on the 24th August, 1999 with John Carthy. They had not previously known each other.

The friendship grew because of the fact that they started work together and were both from Longford.

13.2. When Carthy placed the unofficial picket on P.J. Hegarty's site at Edward Square (in persuance of his claim of unfair dismissal) he then alleged to Kevin Ireland that a S.I.P.T.U. official had said that he (Carthy) could be arrested for picketing. Ireland alleges that Carthy gave him a piece of paper with the name Michael Finucane on it with a Dublin address and phone number. He told Ireland to contact this solicitor if he was arrested. When the dispute with P.J. Hegarty's ended Carthy took back the piece of paper from Ireland. This item was not recovered in the forensic examination of the house or clothing.

13.3. Kevin Ireland also states that John Carthy told him that this solicitor, Michael Finucane, was responsible for having Carthy's gun restored to him and that Michael Finucane was the son of Pat Finucane, the Republican solicitor.

13.4. This investigation is satisfied that Michael Finucane played no part in the restoration of the shotgun.

13.5. John Carthy moved back to Abbeylara in March 2000, however, he made a number of weekend return visits to Ireland in Galway up to 8th/9th April, 2000.

13.6. On the week preceding the siege at Abbeylara John Carthy rang Kevin Ireland on five occasions between the 13th/17th April, 2000.

14. ESCALATING PRESSURE
4.1.
Prior to the siege pressure of life seemed to have had a profound affect on John Carthy from January 2000.

14.2. On the 18th January 2000 he lost his job with P.J. Hegarty in Galway, on the 19th January 2000 he again lost a job with D.O.C. Plastering, Galway. From this time he was unemployed and in receipt £73.50 per week Disability Allowance, this would remain his status until 18th March, 2000.

14.3. On the 17th February, 2000 he visited Dr. Meagher, Coole, requesting a Sick Certificate as he was suffering from depression. He asked the doctor to certify "back injury" for his employer.

14.4. Three days later, 20th February, 2000, he ended acrimoniously his relationship with his girlfriend, Kathleen McNamara, in Galway. On the same date he was arrested under the Mental Treatment Act at Galway.

14.5. On the 29th February, 2000 when he attended Dr. Cullen he was "high". The doctor increased his dosage of Stelazine.

14.6. Due to the lack of finance, he was worried how he was going to furnish the new house. His mother sought a loan from Bank of Ireland, Granard, but was refused. On the 17th April, 2000 he called to Mark Connellan, solicitor, Longford, in connection with endeavouring to secure a loan. The solicitor was unavailable. The County Council had indicated also that they were going to knock the old house. John was totally against them doing this, saying that, No one was going to put him out of his house.

14.7. It is significant to note that his father had died on Holy Thursday, 12th April 1990. His uncle, Patsy Donoghue, died on Holy Thursday and the day John Carthy died was also Holy Thursday.

15. MOVEMENTS ON DAYS PRIOR TO "THE SIEGE"

15.1. Saturday, 15th April, 2000

On the morning of Saturday, 15th April 2000, John Carthy was seen in the Abbeylara Village at 8.15am. Larry Boland, owner of the local Garden Centre spoke to him for a short period. Boland says that John was in very bad form.

Carthy seemed agitated, as the only place he could purchase cigarettes at that early hour was in Crawfords, from where he was barred. He told Boland that he would shoot Willie Crawford, only for the fact that Carthy's mother, Rose, was living in Abbeylara.

15.2. It is interesting to note that between 8.36am and 4.48pm he called his sister twenty (20) times on her mobile phone. Details of these are contained at Paragraph 62.4.

15.3. At approximately 11am, John went to Brendan McLoughlin's to assist Pat McLoughlin, Brendan' brother and also a builder, with a building foundation. He appeared in very bad form. He conveyed to Pat McLoughlin that there were a lot of fellows around the village that he didn't like and that he would come down and shoot them, including Paul McCormack, a local plasterer and the person, he believed, responsible for burning the mascot in the Summer of 1998.

15.4. On Saturday evening John went to McCormack's Pub in Abbeylara. While there he had "words" with Kieran McCormack, a local farmer.

15.5. John left McCormack's Pub and went to Kiernan's Pub in Longford. He remained there until 1.30am when Bernard Brady, a musician from Abbeylara, drove him home.

15.6. Sunday, 16th April 2000.
On Sunday, 16th April, 2000 it appears that John Carthy stayed at home until 8pm when he telephoned Bernard Reilly who then drove him to Castlepollard to the Old Town & County Pub.

15.7. Seán Farrell, a carpenter from Finea, Co. Westmeath, met John Carthy in the Old Town & County. John didn't appear to be himself. John spoke about the fact that his mother, Rose, was giving out to him for drinking when he couldn't afford it.

15.8. In or around 10.45pm, he got a taxi to Oldcastle, arriving there at 11pm. He then went to the Mountain Dew Pub and remained there until 12.30am.

15.9. John Carthy enquired as to the availability of accommodation in Oldcastle, however it would appear that he slept rough that night.

15.10. Monday, 17th April 2000.
It is interesting again to note that between 12.19am /1.38pm, on this date, he called his sister's mobile phone on twenty two (22) different occasions. This is referred to at Paragraph 62.4.

15.11. At 8.15am, John called to the Finn Court, Oldcastle, where he had breakfast. He remained there until 11am during which time he also consumed four bottles of Budweiser beer.

15.12. From there John proceeded to the Napper Arms in Oldcastle. He remained there until 2p.m.during which time he had more alcohol. He then took a taxi home to Abbeylara.

15.13. That afternoon he called to Brendan McLoughlin's house. During his time there he had a row with Pat McLoughlin regarding his (Carthy) drinking.

15.14. That evening he called to the offices of Mr. Mark Connellan, solicitor, Longford. Mr. Connellan was on holidays, he told them he would return on the 2nd May, 2000. He then got the 6pm bus to Granard and went home. He was not seen later that evening.

15.15. Tuesday, 18th April 2000.
At 7.45am, on Tuesday, 18th April, 2000 John was seen thumbing a lift in Abbeylara Village. He received a lift from John Scally, an electrician from Granard, who drove him to Granard. John discussed Niall Enright, Scally' boss at the Enplast factory in Granard, and Pat Higgins, a member of An Garda Síochána at Mullingar Garda Station. John told Scally that both Enright and "Pat the Baker" (Pat Higgins) should be shot. Scally felt John was "strung up" on that morning.

15.16. John got the 8am bus from Granard to Longford. He arrived at work at 8.30am. At 10am, he availed of breakfast in a local Café.

He returned to work at 10.30am. At 1pm, John went to the Longford Arms and drank two pints of Guinness, returning to work at 2pm. At 2.30pm, John left work again, not returning until 4.30pm. His employer, Gerard Delaney, advised him to go home because he had drink taken. He again called to his solicitor, Mark Connellan that afternoon and as previously indicated Mr. Connellan was absent. He then collected 180 tablets as described at Paragraph 6.16.

15.17. At approximately 8.30pm, Alice Farrell, next door neighbour of the Carthy's, called to Carthy's house to speak to Rose. John answered the front door. During their brief conversation John stated, "the party is over, there will be no more laughing, the Guards won't be here again". John was very agitated. I consider this statement to be quite significant, as to future behaviour.

15.18. Later that evening John went to McCormacks Pub in Abbeylara. He was refused alcohol due to the "words" he had there the previous Saturday. John drank two cans of 7Up, left, and went home.

15.19. The calls made by John to his sister on both Saturday and Monday have to be viewed with some significance. Why should a brother call his sister on 42 occasions in two days? Obviously there was some difficulty. His sister cannot account for these calls.

15.20. It is also important to note that Marie had made an appointment for her brother with Mr. Shanley, Psychiatrist, for 2pm, on 20th April, 2000, the day on which he died. This appointment was made some 10 days prior to the 20th April, 2000.

 

16. EVENTS AT CARTHYS HOUSE ON AFTERNOON OF THURSDAY, 19th APRIL 2000.

 

16.1. No independent evidence is available to indicate the happenings in Carthy's house in the afternoon of the 19th April, 2000.

16.2 His mother, Rose states that at approximately 3.40pm John, who had been at home all day, went to his gun locker (Photograph 1), took out his gun and ammunition, loaded two cartridges, went outside the hall door and discharged two shots. John was saying that no one was going to put him out of his house. He returned to the kitchen and sat down with the gun and ammunition in his hands. Rose Carthy left approximately 1 hour later and went to her sister's house some 92 metres away (Photograph 41E). The investigation will show that at least two further shots were discharged from the house before Rose Carthy left.

16.3. The Investigating Officer is of the view that Rose has not told the full story of the happenings. A slight elaboration of what she told others is contained in Paragraph 19.5.

 

17. FIRST REPORT TO GARDAI.

 

17.1. Some time before 5.15pm Ann Walsh, cousin of John Carthy, and Alice Farrell called to the home of Nancy Walsh, mother of Ann. (Aunt of John Carthy) As they were going into the house they heard what is described as two (2) shots, then Rose Carthy arrived at the house almost immediately in a hysterical state. It took some minutes for Nancy Walsh, Ann Walsh and Alice Farrell to make sense of what she was saying.

17.2. Rose Carthy told all three that John had his gun, he had told her to go to Nancy's for a few hours. She further stated he did not trust the Guards and he would shoot them if they came. Further stating that he had said, "if anybody or the Guards came in around the house that he would get them or shoot them". He had fired four (4) shots at this stage. Rose Carthy requested that the Guards be summoned, as she feared what John might do. At 5.20pm Ann Walsh picked up the phone to ring Granard Gardaí.

However, she mistakenly rang her sister, Rosaleen Mahon, also a cousin of John Carthy, in Granard, she then rang Granard Garda Station and handed the phone to Rose Carthy. The phone was answered in Granard Garda Station by Garda Maeve Gorman. Rose Carthy spoke to her initially followed by Ann Walsh. They informed Garda Gorman of the situation, she in turn contacted Gardaí John Gibbons and Colin White directing them to go to the scene.

 

18. REQUEST TO DR. CULLEN.

 

18.1. When Rosaleen Mahon received the phone call at her home in Granard, she immediately went to her mother's house (Nancy Walsh's). On arrival the situation was explained to her. She decided to ring John's doctor, Dr. Pat Cullen at Coole, Co. Westmeath. This call was made at 5.29pm. Having received this call the doctor immediately left his surgery to go to Abbeylara.

18.2. While awaiting the arrival of the Gardaí, Rosaleen Mahon phoned Granard Garda Station at 5.32pm indicating that Dr. Cullen had been contacted and was on his way to the scene. At 5.34pm Ann Walsh rang Granard Garda Station as they were in fear and wanted to know if the Gardaí were on their way.

18.3. When Dr.Cullen arrived at the scene, he called to Alice Farrell's house. (Photograph 41A). This house is on the opposite side of Carthy's, from Burke's and Walsh's. (Map No. 3) He returned to his car, having got no reply. While waiting for the Gardai he states that about ten (10) shots were fired from Carthy's house. (Not accurate)

 

19. ARRIVAL OF FIRST GARDAI ON THE SCENE.

 

19.1. Prior to going to the scene, Garda Gibbons obtained a firearm and flack jacket. Garda Gibbons also wore a civilian jacket over his uniform. Garda White was in uniform.

19.2. On route the members met Fr. Fitzpatrick, the local Parish Priest, in Abbeylara. They asked had he seen John Carthy lately and the reply was in the negative.

19.3. Gardaí Gibbons and White went to the house next door to Carthy's where they spoke to Michael Burke, next door neighbour of the Carthy's. (Photograph 41D) He informed them that he had heard a number of shots coming from the Carthy property.

19.4. Following this the members went to Walsh's house (Photgraph 41E), located next to Burkes. John Carthy's mother, Rose, was there, along with a number of family and friends. All present were described as fearful and excited. The members tried to elicit as much information as possible, as to what exactly had happened. Those present kept saying that John should not have had the gun given back to him.

19.5. The members found it difficult to establish what exactly had happened, but established from Rose Carthy that John had put her out of her house and that he had a loaded shotgun in his possession. Rose also stated that John had earlier discharged a number of shots. She informed the members that John was on anti_depressive tablets. They established that there was no telephone in the house but that John did have a mobile phone. Garda White requested this mobile number from Rose, she was reluctant to give it because of fear, but subsequently did so. Rose in her statement to investigating Gardaí says she left on her own volition to go to her sister's house.

19.6. Garda Gibbons enquired who would be the best person to talk to John. Thomas Walsh, John's cousin, was the unanimous choice. He was in Cork, so Garda Gibbons requested they contact him.

19.7. Having left Walsh's house, Gardaí Gibbons and White then went, by marked Garda car, to Carthy's house. They drove in the driveway and before their vehicle came to a stop (Photograph 40 refers) they heard two shots discharged in quick succession. They reversed from Carthy's driveway towards Walshs house. They had no sighting of John Carthy at this stage, nor could they identify the position or direction of shots.

19.8. The members observed Carthy's house from a safe distance. They again drove by the house, Dr. Cullen was on the roadway on the Springtown side, he got into the patrol car and all three went to the Abbeylara side of Carthys house. (Map No. 3)

19.9. Dr. Cullen informed the Gardaí that John was suffering from depression, he rang John's mobile phone having obtained the number from Garda White. He got no reply.

19.10. D/Garda Jim Campbell, Detective Unit, Granard Garda Station, arrived at the scene in an unmarked patrol car and was briefed by Gardaí Gibbons and White. D/Garda Campbell was in possession of his personal firearm and flak jacket.

19.11. D/Garda Campbell and Garda Gibbons approached Carthy's house in the unmarked patrol car. Garda White stayed a safe distance away with Dr. Cullen.

19.12. D/Garda Campbell drove the unmarked patrol car in the driveway of Carthys house. He stopped the car at a point where he felt it was safe. (Photographs 3, 5 & 8) D/Garda Campbell and Garda Gibbons left the car. Both members made their way passed the front gable and around to the front of the house, crouching down under a front window. D/Garda Campbell was, at this time, of the view that John Carthy may have taken his own life.

19.13. From a crouched position D/Garda Campbell knocked on the front door (Photograph 3) and announced, "This is Jim Campbell from Granard Garda Station" and asked, "Are you o.k.?" Almost immediately the members heard glass breaking and a gunshot discharged.

19.14. Both D/Garda Campbell and Garda Gibbons feared for their safety. They felt they were in a vulnerable position trapped between the front window and the front door of the house. D/Garda Campbell pleaded with John Carthy to throw the gun out and no harm would come to him.

19.15. Garda Gibbons crawled to the side of the house and secured cover, he was joined there by D/Garda Campbell. Contact was made with Granard Garda Station requesting further Garda assistance.

19.16. From Garda Gibbon's position he had a clear view of the front of the house, D/Garda Campbell had now moved to a position where he had a clear view of the rear.

19.17. D/Garda Campbell heard glass breaking at the rear of the house thus identifying John's location. D/Garda Campbell tried to converse with him in an effort to establish if he (John) was o.k., to which Carthy replied, "Fuck off from here or I'll blow your head off".

19.18. John Carthy was not visible but could clearly be heard inside by D/Garda Campbell. Two shots were discharged from the house in quick succession. These shots the members felt were fired from the front gable window. (Photograph 8)

19.19. D/Garda Campbell continued to tell John that they were members of An Garda Síochána and they were there to help him.

19.20. At one point D/Garda Campbell informed John that Dr. Cullen was outside in the car and wished to speak to him. Immediately after Dr. Cullen's name was mentioned, D/Garda Campbell heard a single gunshot fired out the rear window of the house. From their positions both members could see that this shot hit the front left wing of the unmarked patrol car. (Photographs 6 & 7)

19.21. D/Garda Campbell pleaded with John to throw out the gun before someone was injured. Carthy replied, "Come in here you fucker, I'm not going out". Two more shots were discharged from the rear of the house. The member could see gravel flying through the air.

19.22. D/Garda Campbell and Garda Gibbons were continuously assessing the situation and they moved to another location behind a mound of clay in the rear garden, which afforded them greater protection.

19.23. More Gardai, uniform and Detective Branch personnel, arrived at the scene to assist. D/Garda Campbell left his position to speak to Superintendent Joe Shelly, Mullingar Garda Station, now at scene to take command.

19.24. Garda Colin White, first member to the scene with assistance, on hearing shots being fired from the house immediately closed access to Carthy's house from both directions, he evacuated the immediate families from the scene, i.e. Burke's, Farrell's and Walsh's.

20. SCENE COMMANDER.

20.1. The overall command and direction of this Garda Operation was vested in Superintendent Joseph Shelly, Mullingar Garda Station and Superintendent Michael Byrne, Granard Garda Station.

20.2. A policy of containment and negotiation was then formulated and continued during the course of this operation.

20.3. Both officers are referred to in this report as the Scene Commander. They had total control over both Emergency Response Unit (E.R.U.) personnel and local resources. Assistant Commissioner T. Hickey, Eastern Region, and the Divisional Officer, Chief Superintendent P. Tansey, Mullingar Garda Station, were in a consultative role and at times were removed from the scene.

20.4. While the Emergency Response Unit (E.R.U.) are on specific operations assisting local Units, direct control of the overall operation rests with the local Divisional / District Officer, (in this case, Superintendents Shelly and Byrne). However, where circumstances dictate, such as a special tactical requirement, control shifts to the Detective Inspector / Detective Sergeant then in charge of the E.R.U.

20.5. In the Abbeylara context, the Scene Commander retained control until Carthy exited the house, then the responsibility passed to the member in charge of the E.R.U. to employ unit tactics to endeavour to bring the operation to a peaceful conclusion.

20.6 To gain an overall appreciation of the activities of both Scene Commanders over the 25_hour period, it is necessary to refer to the extracts of their statements hereunder:

Superintendent Joseph Shelly.

"On Wednesday the 19th April, 2000, Garda Maeve Gorman of Granard Garda Station telephoned me at my office in Mullingar. The time was approximately 6.25pm. As a result of my conversation with Garda Gorman I became aware that an incident involving the unlawful discharge of a firearm at the Gardai was in progress at Abbeylara, Co. Longford.

When I arrived at the scene in Abbeylara I spoke to Sergeants Dooley and Mangan regarding developments there. As a result of my conversation with them I learned that John Carthy was still in his mother's house and that he had discharged a number of shots from the house at the Gardaí and the unmarked patrol car which I observed parked in the driveway of Carthy's house.

Garda Gibbons told me that he had earlier spoken to John Carthy's mother, Rose, in a nearby house, which is owned by her sister, a Mrs Walsh. I learned that John Carthy had put his mother out of the house sometime after five o'clock that evening and that he had discharged a number of shots at that time. As a result of my conversation with Garda Gibbons I learned that he had earlier spoken to five women in Mrs Walsh's house and that they were in fear of John Carthy and what he might do to them. They feared he might come up the road and shoot them.

These women told Garda Gibbons that Tom Walsh, his first cousin, was his best friend and they rang him in Cork to tell him what had happened and that Tom Walsh was the best person to talk to him.

I was of the view that a policy of containment and negotiation was the appropriate course of action to follow in the circumstances that existed at that time.

In addition to containing and negotiating with subject John Carthy, my aim was to achieve a controlled exit by him from the house. It was my considered opinion that while subject John Carthy was contained in the house, that the likelihood of serious injury to all persons was minimised.

Both Sergeant Dooley and I had opened negotiations with subject, John Carthy, through the medium of a megaphone from the position of the E.S.B. pole, which was situated between Carthy's and Burke's house.He made no response at all to our requests apart from firing two shots out the window.

While I was speaking to John Carthy I became aware that his first cousin, Tom Walsh who lived beside the Carthy's at Toneymore, Abbeylara had arrived at the scene.

Inspector Maguire enquired from Tom Walsh if he knew if John Carthy had a solicitor but he stated that he didn't know if John had any solicitor. I spoke to Tom Walsh and he expressed a wish to speak to John Carthy. I explained to him that we could go no nearer Carthy's house than the position of the E.S.B. pole between Carthy's and Burkes house as a number of shots had been discharged at the Gardaí since their arrival at the scene. I handed the megaphone to Tom Walsh and he started to talk to John Carthy. However, he got no response. Both Sergeant Dooley and I continued to speak to John Carthy, but he never responded to us.

At 9.50pm D/Sergeant Russell, E.R.U., arrived at the scene with his staff. I briefed him fully on the situation, as it existed at that time.

I gave him all of the information that I had in my possession regarding subject, John Carthy and his family circumstances and background.

I maintained a written log of events as they unfolded from the time Gardaí first arrived at the scene, at approximately 5.30pm on Wednesday, 19th April 2000, until preservation of the scene commenced on Thursday, 20th April 2000. As Scene Commander I had overall charge and responsibility of the entire operation. D/Sergeant Russell, E.R.U., had tactical control of the inner cordon, while D/Sergeant Jackson had sole responsibility for the on_going negotiations with subject John Carthy.

When D/Sergeant Jackson arrived at the scene at 10pm accompanied by his assistant, D/Garda Michael Sullivan, I briefed them fully on all aspects of the operation.

A Command Post was agreed and established at the E.S.B. pole on the roadway between Burke's and Carthy's house. An E.R.U. jeep was used for this purpose.

Some time around 11.40pm I was informed by D/Garda Sullivan that John Carthy had requested a solicitor but he had refused to identify any particular solicitor. I was aware that Inspector Maguire had already made enquiries from Tom Walsh about the possible identity of John Carthy's solicitor and he was informed that John didn't have a solicitor. As he had not identified any particular solicitor it was not possible to identify who he was talking about.

D/Sergeant Jackson had informed John Carthy that his friend Martin Shelly was at the scene and I agreed with D/Sergeant Jackson that Martin Shelly should be allowed talk to subject, John Carthy. I asked D/Garda Sullivan to try and establish from John Carthy the identity of whatever solicitor he was requesting, but John failed to respond to these requests.

At approximately 12mn I handed over the responsibility of Scene Commander to Superintendent Byrne and I informed D/Sergeant Russell of this changeover.

At 8.20am on Thursday, 20th April, 2000 I resumed duty at the scene at Toneymore. I met Superintendent Michael Byrne who briefed me on developments.

I discussed the possibility of a covert entry to the house with D/Sergeant Russell but he informed me that it could not be attempted, without risk to the lives of E.R.U. personnel and subject, John Carthy.

Tom Walsh was also at the scene. I decided that he should be allowed to talk to him. Tom Walsh was then taken down to the negotiating position to talk to John Carthy. Tom Walsh spoke through the megaphone to subject, John Carthy without success. I was later made aware that subject John Carthy had levelled his gun at Tom Walsh when he was trying to negotiate with him and Tom had become very upset at this.

As John Carthy appeared to be getting very aggressive in the house, I directed that an ambulance and a doctor be made available at the scene.

While the negotiations were difficult and slow, I felt that sooner or later, John Carthy would surrender himself to the Gardaí and in so doing, bring the entire episode to a peaceful conclusion. Inspector Maguire had learned that John Carthy was due to see his psychiatrist in Dublin at 2pm that day and I was informed that he was a Doctor Shanley. Inspector Maguire eventually made contact with Dr. Shanley and he agreed to visit Abbeylara later that day and speak to John Carthy.

At approximately 10am I was made aware that John Carthy had asked for Major Cigarettes and I directed Garda Michael Carthy, who was on duty at Toneymore, to purchase three packets of 20 Major cigarettes and some matches.

I discussed a plan for the safe delivery of the cigarettes with D/Sergeant Russell. I was in total agreement that the cigarettes be delivered to John Carthy, but only if this could be done in safety. I was disappointed to learn that John refused to co_operate with all attempts and suggestions to deliver the cigarettes safely to him.

I also became aware that D/Sergeant Jackson, while attempting to negotiate with John Carthy had again asked him if he required a solicitor and to identify him but again he refused to say what solicitor he wanted or who his Solicior was. He did say he wanted a solicitor in the house but he was told that this wasn't possible while he had the gun in his possession. His reply to this was "don't bother, fuck off" or words to that effect.

At approximately 1.15pm I again spoke to Superintendent John Farrelly of the Garda Press Office, at the scene. He informed me that Noreen Leddy, a reporter from Shannon Side Radio in Longford, had some information regarding a friend of John Carthy's, a Mr. Kevin Ireland. I met with Ms. Leddy and D/Garda Sullivan was also present. She informed us that she knew Kevin Ireland's mother, as she was an employee of Shannon Side Radio in Longford. Kevin Ireland had phoned his mother and informed her that John Carthy had spoken to him on his mobile phone sometime earlier that morning, at around 11.30am, and that John Carthy had said to him "Watch this Space" and that he boasted about being able to make the Guards duck every time he levelled the gun out the window. She also informed us that John Carthy had said that he wanted a solicitor.

At approximately 2.15pm I met a friend of John Carthy's who had arrived at the scene. This man, Seán Farrell from Finea, Co. Cavan, was also willing to talk to subject, John Carthy and I agreed that Seán Farrell should be allowed speak to him. As there was no response, it was decided to take Sean Farrell back to the Command Post.

At approximately 2.30pm I received a telephone call from Sergeant Dan Monaghan of Granard Garda Station to the effect that Mr. Kevin Ireland had telephoned him from Mill Street Garda Station in Galway City. Mr. Ireland told Sergeant Monaghan, that he had received a call on his mobile phone from John Carthy at about 12md that day and that he had mentioned a solicitor to him by the name of Mick or John Finucane from Dublin. I was aware that Kevin Ireland was the same person who earlier telephoned his mother in Longford regarding the telephone call he had received from John Carthy.

D/Sergeant Jackson attempted to communicate with John Carthy concerning this new information, he refused to listen or pay any heed

I became aware that John Carthy had mentioned a solicitor named Finucane during negotiations with D/Garda Sullivan, who was relieving D/Sergeant Jackson as he availed of a rest period.

Dr. Shanley was conveyed to the scene arriving at approximately 4.45pm. I spoke to Dr. Shanley and I gave him as much detail on John Carthy's situation as was known to me at that time. Dr. Shanley was anxious to speak with Mrs Rose Carthy as she could give him the information he required on John's mental health in the period leading up to this incident. I expressed my concerns to Dr. Shanley, about John Carthy's disturbed behaviour and violent aggressiveness towards us and, in particular, his refusal to listen or indeed react to any of the suggestions or pleas that the Gardai or any of his close friends had made to him since this incident had started. After some time Dr. Shanley was brought back to the scene. I was most anxious that Dr. Shanley would talk to John Carthy as soon as possible.

I was made aware that Marie Carthy had expressed a wish to speak to her brother, John. I was very concerned for Marie's safety. I discussed this issue with D/Sergeant Jackson and we agreed that it would be unsafe to bring Marie down at that time to talk to her brother.

We decided that if Marie could talk to her brother on the phone that it might help.

I decided to contact the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions in order to establish what possible criminal charges might be preferred against John Carthy when the present situation came to an end.

At approximately 5.30pm I spoke with Mr David Gormley, a Professional Officer. In the course of my conversation with Mr Gormley, I mentioned to him that while the Gardai were attempting to talk to John Carthy at the scene, he had looked for a solicitor and had mentioned the name Finucane, at one stage. That the name Mick or John Finucane had also been mentioned by a friend of John Carthy's. David Gormley informed me that he was aware that a son of the late Pat Finnucane was working in the offices of Garrett Sheehan & Co. Solicitors, Dublin and, as far as he was aware, this young man was an apprentice solicitor in that office. I was relieved to have received this information as, at last, I felt we were making progress on the issue of John Carthy's solicitor.

I asked D/Garda Sullivan to arrange with D/Sergeant Jackson to have Dr. Shanley brought down to the negotiating point

I was standing on the road some short distance down from the entrance to Burkes.

I then heard some of the E.R.U. members shout "Armed Gardaí, drop the gun John, drop the gun". I then observed John Carthy on the roadway, towards the left side as I looked down. He was walking in, what I could best describe, as a somewhat stooped position and he had a shotgun in his hands and it was pointed in our direction.

When I saw this developing, I was conscious of the fact that unarmed people were present and realised that our lives were in danger as John Carthy was pointing a closed shotgun in our direction and at the same time he was walking towards us.

There was now, in my opinion, an immediate threat that he was going to fire at us and that somebody would be killed or seriously injured. I could hear several appeals for him to "put the gun down" and "Armed Gardaí, John, put the gun down". John Carthy kept walking towards our position and, in particular, the area where the Gardaí were, at Burke's wall. I was still standing on the roadway and I did not know where Sergeant Alan Murray was. There was no response at all from John Carthy and the next thing I heard were a number of shots being discharged and the subject, John Carthy, fell to the ground on the roadway at a point almost at the boundary between Burke's and Carthy's houses, on the opposite side of the road.

I contacted the Garda Technical Bureau at Garda Headquarters and informed them of developments and requested that a full Technical Team be sent to Abbeylara.

I then made contact with Dr. John Harbison, State Pathologist and I outlined to him the circumstances of the fatal shooting of subject, John Carthy. Having considered the matter, Dr. Harbison stated that he would perform the Post Mortem Examination in Mullingar Hospital. I informed Dr. Harbison that a local doctor, Dr. Donoghue from Granard, had pronounced John Carthy dead at the scene and that the body was still there. I asked him if he wished to view the body at the scene. He said that he did not wish to view the body at the scene, as the time of death had already been established by Dr. Donoghue."

Superintendent Michael F. Byrne, Granard.

"Superintendent Shelly and I left the Springtown checkpoint on foot and walked to Farrell's gate near Carthy's house. Detective Gardaí Kilroy, Barnes and Dunne were on duty there. A shot rang out from Carthy's house. I went back around to the Abbeylara side of the scene when at 12.51am a shot rang out from Carthy's house.

Martin Shelly was brought to the negotiating position by D/Sergeant Jackson. At this time Marie Carthy was anxious to go with Martin Shelly to be nearer her brother. As a result of what D/Sergeant Jackson told me, and my own observation that Marie was under the influence of alcohol, I dissuaded her and physically restrained her from going any nearer the scene. Marie Carthy calmed down and she sat into the front seat of the command vehicle with her friend Ms. Leavy with D/Garda Campbell and I.

At 3.25am a shot was fired from Carthy's house and at 3.30am another shot was fired from the house. D/Sergeant Russell spoke to me and suggested that no further visits by family or friends be allowed at this time, as John appeared erratic now.

At 3.50am D/Sergeant Jackson and I discussed the situation. I was told that John had gone quiet and might be preparing to rest, that cigarettes had been requested and this was been considered and that consideration was also being given to cutting off the cable T.V.

At about 4am I had a conversation with D/Sergeant Russell and discussed our options with him. I asked him if it was safe to retrieve the keys from the damaged patrol car, to carry out a check to see if we could carry out a covert entry to John Carthy's house and to see could we disable the piped T.V. I was mindful of the fact that John Carthy, who was very agitated at times, might become more aggressive as a result of the T.V. service. I decided that the risk of attempting a covert entry was too great, as we would be risking the lives of the members and also of John Carthy. At 6.15am D/Sergeant Russell informed me that he had succeeded in cutting the T.V. Cable.

At 1.05p.m. I heard a shot from Carthy's house and I became aware that the megaphone was shot off the wall at the negotiator's position."

20.7 They maintained a Log of events during the operation.

21. DECISION TO CALL IN E.R.U. PERSONNEL.

21.1 Assistant Commissioner T. Hickey, Eastern Region, having consulted with his Senior Garda Officers for the Division of Longford/Westmeath, decided to seek the services of the E.R.U.

22. ESTABLISHMENT OF LAND LINE TO CARTY.

22.1 Although a land line phone was installed in the home of John Carthy, the service had been disconnected. There was an urgent need to reconnect it to establish communications and this was achieved on the direction of Superintendent Shelly through Garda Justin Browne, Smear Garda Station.

23. ESTABLISHMENT OF TEMPORARY LIGHTING.

23.1. To assist at the scene temporary emergency lighting was secured through Mullingar Garda Station for the siege area.

24. ARRIVAL OF GARDA EMERGENCY RESPONSE UNIT (E.R.U.) PERSONNEL.

24.1. At 9.50pm, on Wednesday, 19th April, 2000, D/Sergeant Gerry Russell, D/Gardaí Oliver Flaherty, Ronan Carey and Tony Ryan, all members of the E.R.U., arrived at the scene of the siege. D/Sergeant Russell spoke with Scene Commander, Superintendent Shelly and, having carried out an assessment of the area and building, D/Sergeant Russell discussed with the Scene Commander the deployment of an inner cordon consisting of E.R.U. members.

24.2. At approximately 10pm, on the same date, D/Sergeant Michael Jackson and D/Garda Michael Sullivan arrived at the scene. D/Sergeant Jackson was the nominated negotiator and D/Garda Sullivan was his assistant.

Both Superintendent Shelly and D/Sergeant Russell briefed D/Sergeant Jackson.

25. BRIEFING & DEPLOYMENT OF E.R.U. PERSONNEL.

25.1. Briefing and deployment of E.R.U. personnel, was agreed by Superintendent Shelly, Scene Commander, and D/Sergeant Gerry Russell, the latter having responsibility for tactical decisions.

26. NEGOTIATIONS.

26.1. From the time of arrival of first Gardaí to the scene, negotiations commenced.

26.2. All negotiations, phone calls made and interaction between Carthy and members of An Garda Síochána, including D/Sergeant Jackson, the Negotiator, are contained in the tabulated Chart at Paragraph 26.4.

26.3 This document will have to be read in conjunction with the extracts from the statement of D/Garda Sullivan, Assistant Negoitator, as hereunder.

D/Garda O'Sullivan. (Extracts of Statement).

"I was aware that a man from the Abbeylara area had fired a number of gunshots at Gardaí from his home and that he was presently in his home and Gardai were at the scene.

D/Sergeant Jackson, who is a trained negotiator, directed that I would be an aid to him, which would include note_taking and liaising with the Scene Commander.At 10.20pm D/Sergeant Jackson and I took up a negotiating position on the first pillar of Carthy's wall.

D/Sergeant Jackson was of the opinion that our location was too far away for negotiating purposes. We took up a new negotiating position at the second pillar of Carthy's wall. This position was directly opposite the gable window of John Carthy's house. We arrived at this position at 11pm.

John Carthy was aware of our presence and from an early stage started levelling the gun directly at our position. When I refer to levelling the gun, I mean that John Carthy put the gun to his shoulder and took a direct aim at our position.

Between 11pm and 11.20pm I became aware that John Carthy's sister, Marie, and his friend, Martin Shelly, otherwise known as "Pepper", were at a uniform point at the Cavan side of the scene. I went to speak to these people. I asked them if they could throw any light as to why he might be upset and how we might approach the issue. They informed me there might be a number of reasons :

(a) that he used to have a job labouring on the building in Galway working with "Pepper", but that he had lost it around the end of January. I was told that he was upset about this as he felt he was sacked in the wrong;

(b) that he had broken up with his girlfriend, Kathleen, she had broken it off with him, about four weeks ago. He had been going out with her for about six weeks and that he was mad about her. They said this was a touchy subject with John and to mention it might upset him.

(c) that his father's anniversary was Holy Thursday, that being tomorrow.

(d) I was informed that he had been barred from his local pub.

At 11.38pm John Carthy enquired as to where his solicitor was and D/Sergeant Jackson asked who his solicitor was and if he wanted him contacted. He just kept hanging up. I communicated this request regarding Carthy's request to the Scene Commander.

At 11.45pm I saw John Carthy from inside the window, level the shotgun, I ducked, I immediately heard the sound of a shotgun blast. He would frequently level the gun at our position, which would force us to duck down. Occasionally he would turn up the volume of the television to drown out the sound of the negotiating. At this time I felt fearful for my safety, as I never knew when John Carthy might pull the trigger. At 12.51am on the 20th April, 2000 I heard another single shotgun blast coming from inside the room and I heard Carthy say "Fuck off".

D/Sergeant Jackson advised "Pepper" on how to negotiate with John Carthy. John Carthy had agreed to speak to "Pepper". At 2.30am I brought Pepper to the negotiating point. About fifteen (15) minutes later I returned with "Pepper" to the Command Post, having got no response.

At 3.25am another shot was fired at our position by John Carthy from the window. At 3.30am again another shot was fired at our position by John Carthy.

I recall that John Carthy first mentioned cigarettes sometime after 3am on Thursday, 20th April, 2000.

At approximately 8am on the 20th April 2000 I saw John Carthy up and about. He had the shotgun in his hand and seemed aggressive. At 9am John Carthy was smashing some of the remaining glass from the frame with the barrel of gun pointing out the window. At 9.06am John Carthy fired another shot from the window at our position. At 9.42am John Carthy fired another shot from the window at our position.

Sometime after this I was made aware that Tom Walsh was present and was willing to speak to John Carthy. I relayed this information to D/Sergeant Jackson who advised that Tom Walsh be allowed down at some stage.

I consulted with Superintendent Shelly who had resumed as Scene Commander and he authorised it. Sometime after I brought Tom Walsh down to the negotiating point, D/Sergeant Jackson advised Tom Walsh on how to negotiate with John Carthy.

Tom Walsh stands up for a minute or so trying to communicate with John Carthy. John Carthy suddenly levels the gun directly at Tom Walsh and we got him to duck down immediately. This incident upsets Tom Walsh badly, it is then decided to return Tom Walsh to the Command Post and I did so when I felt it is safe to do so. At approximately 10am John Carthy makes a passing request for cigarettes. D/Sergeant Jackson tells him that wasn't a problem. He told him that we would get them for him. I relayed this request to Superintendent Shelly and sometime later I collected the cigarettes at the Command Post and brought them to the negotiating point. D/Sergeant Jackson emphasised to John Carthy that it was too dangerous for us to bring them in while he had the gun, but if he put the gun down and came out he could have his cigarettes.

At 11.18am D/Sergeant Jackson made contact by mobile phone with John Carthy. He was still aggressive towards us. D/Sergeant Jackson, who was negotiating at this point, tried to get details from John Carthy about his solicitor. He asked him who he was, how he could be contacted. John Carthy would not say. D/Sergeant Jackson asked if we could get any solicitor for him and would he come out if we got any solicitor for him. John Carthy became dismissive of D/Sergeant Jackson and said, "Don't bother, Don't bother, Fuck off out of here".

Superintendent Farrelly requested that I speak to Noreen Leddy, a reporter from Shannonside News. She mentioned from her information, John Carthy had spoken with a friend of his, Kevin Ireland. Noreen Leddy mentioned that John Carthy seemed to be boasting about being able to make the Guards keep their heads down and duck, that he had mentioned looking for a solicitor from Dublin, that he had supposedly spoken to friends some two weeks previously about doing something big, and that when Kevin Ireland asked him what he was going to do he said, "Watch this space".

I was informed from the Command Post, a man he had worked for from time to time, was in the area and willing to speak to him. This man's name was Seán Farrell. John Carthy looked up to Farrell as a role model. I brought Sean Farrell to the negotiating point at 2.15pm D/Sergeant Jackson advised Farrell on negotiating points. There was no response and I saw the gun being levelled at our position, while Farrell was speaking. I brought Seán Farrell back to the Command Post when it was safe to do so.

At 3.20pm D/Sergeant Jackson decided that I might try to talk to John Carthy and I agreed. He would regularly level the gun at me to make me duck. He seemed to enjoy the fact that I had to duck. At some stage during my negotiations he mentioned to me a solicitor called Finucane, and why we didn't get him. This was the first time he mentioned a solicitor's name. I pushed him on the matter asking him who the solicitor was and where we could contact him. I asked him if he wanted us to contact this solicitor, or anybody else, and I pleaded with him to indicate to me if he wanted us to get this solicitor. Carthy wouldn't say and became very dismissive of my pleas to him. He said things like "Are ye still here", "Fuck off out of here". He was very aggressive with his gun. He started saying things like, "Free State bastards" and "Shoot me", "Shoot me". On one occasion he came to the window, leant forward with his arms out straight and his gun in one hand taunting us to shoot him.

At approximately 4.30pm I was informed from the Command Post that Dr. Shanley had arrived. I went up and spoke to him. I informed D/Sergeant Jackson that Dr. Shanley was present and then I learned that he had left the area to speak to John Carthy's family to get some background information on John.

At approximately 5.20pm I was informed that Dr. Shanley was back at the scene. I was brought to Dr. Shanley, who was sitting in a car some distance back from the Command Post. Also present in the car were John's sister, Marie, "Pepper" and Tom Walsh. I sat into the car with them.

I spoke with Marie who said she was anxious to speak with John. I informed her that John had become particularily agitated at this point and had fired more shots and that it would be unsafe for her to go down. I suggested to her that perhaps she could speak to him on the phone. Both John Carthy's mobile phone number and land_line number were predialled on D/Sergeant Jacksons's phone. I allowed Marie to try each number a couple of times but she got no reply.

D/Sergeant Jackson requested that I bring Dr. Shanley to the negotiating point. At approximately 5.40pm I started to make my way back up to get Dr. Shanley.

I heard a shout of "He's out", "He's out".

I got to a position on the roadway just past the hedge dividing Burke's and Carthy's. I could see John Carthy just coming onto the driveway heading towards the roadway. I was concerned for my own safety and the safety of other people, some of which were Gardai in uniform, who were gathered in this area. I shouted at them, "Get back and get into cover".

I felt my colleagues had the situation under control, I immediately jumped over the concrete wall, into Burke's garden. I took cover and lost sight of John Carthy. I then heard a number of shots. After this I peered over the wall and saw John Carthy lying on the road. I gave Cardiac Massage while D/Garda Flaherty gave mouth to mouth resuscitation."

 

 

 

 

26.3. TABULATED CHART OF NEGOTIATIONS.

 

 

Table 1

 

DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

19.4.00.

 

5.40pm approx.

  Gdai. Gibbons and White arrived in an marked patrol car – Carthy's driveway. 2 Shots discharged.

 

19.4.00.

 

Onward.

Dr. Cullen to Rings John Carthy. No Reply.

Messaging Service.

 

19.4.00

 

Onward.

Campbell "This is Jim Campbell from Granard Garda Station, are you o.k. Glass broken out of window. Campbell thinks it was from window of the house which he had passed. Shot discharged.

 

19.4.00.

 

onward

Campbell Asked if he was alone in the house and if he was injured or not. "Fuck off from here or I'll blow your head off". Gunshots (2) immediately afterwards.

 

19.4.00.

 

onward

Campbell We are members of An Garda Síochána and mean no harm, Dr. Cullen your doctor is out in the car and wanted to speak to John. Throw out the shotgun and you will come to no harm. Gunshot fired on mention of Cullen's name and it hit an unmarked patrol car.

 

19.4.00.

 

onward

Campbell Throw out the shotgun before somebody gets injured. "Come in here you fucker I'm not going out. There were two further shots discharged.
Campbell and Gibbons moved For safety.

 

19.4.00.

 

6.15p.m. – 6.50p.m. approx.

Gdai Gibbons & Campbell. Both members moved to the grounds of Burke's house. Two shots discharged.

 

19.4.00.

 

7.15p.m. approx.

    Further shot discharged.

 

19.4.00.

 

7.35p.m. approx.

    Shot discharged in the direction of D/Gda. Dunne.

 

19..4.00.

7.45p.m.

    Shot discharged at direction of Unmarked car in driveway.

 

19.4.00.

 

8.30p.m. approx.

    Shot discharged hitting pillar cap at front wall at D/Gda. Dunne.

 

19.4.00.

 

8.30p.m. Onward.

Supt. Shelly Introduced myself by first name and told him we were Gardaí and here to help him. I asked John Carthy repeatedly to throw the gun out the window of the house and to talk to us, that he had nothing to fear that we would help him, sort out his difficulties if he would co-operate with us.

Repeated attempts at negotiation.

Shot discharged.

No response.

19.4.00 onward Dooley. Loudhailer, identified himself as Tom. Assured John nobody was hurt. Immediate shotgun blast.

 

Table 2

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY
19.4.00. onward Dooley. Loudhailer, said his name was Tom, that no harm had been done and that no one was injured. That we meant no harm and we just wanted to talk to him and discuss his problems. We wanted to help him. We were concerned for his welfare. No response.

 

19.4.00.

 

9.15pm- 9.50pm

Supt. Shelly & Sgt. Dooley. Continuous dialogue. No reply.

(Muffled shot heard by D/Gda. Quinn at 9.30p.m. approx).

 

19.4.00.

 

9.17pm.

Patricia Leavy Patricia Leavy rings John Carthy. Phone was answered.

No reply.

 

19.4.00.

 

9.21pm.

Patricia Leavy Rings John Carthy. No Reply – Phone was answered.

 

19.4.00.

 

9.21pm. onwards

 

9.36p.m.

Tom Walsh Told him I was worried about him and to switch on/off light if he was o.k.

Kept shouting at him to answer his phone, that I was ringing him.

Tom Walsh rings Carthy again.

Johnny its me are you alright.

Of course we care we're all worried sick about you.

Of course you seen me there. I brought your mother up nearly every evening.

Told him "Pepper" was coming and other things.

Nil.

Answered after a while.

"What the fuck do you care".

I was in Lomans several times and I never seen you.

"Don't disgust me Walsh" and hung up phone, sounded angry.

No response.

 

19.4.00.

 

onward

Dooley May have spoke a third time. Same type of conversation – Does not mention what he says. No response.

 

19.4.00

 

10.20pm.

Jackson

Jackson rings Carthy.

No reply.
19.4.00. 10.20pm. Jackson. "I am Mick, I work for the Gardaí I am here to help".

The above was repeated several times.

No reply.

No reply.

 

19.4.00.

 

10.25pm.

    Shot Discharged hitting the

Wall at the Negotiation Point.

 

19.4.00.

 

11pm.

Jackson. D/Sgt. Jackson having taken up a new negotiation point commenced talking on the loudhailer. Called out his mobile phone number to John Carthy. No reply.
19.4.00. 11pm Jackson. "John this is Mick, I'm here to help, I'm with the Gardaí

Repeated attempt at negotiation.

No reply. (Mumbling heard

from John Carthy).

 

Table 3

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

19.4.00.

 

11pm onwards

Jackson

D/Sgt. Jackson rings John Carthy.

No reply.
19.4.00. 11.20p.m. Jackson. Repeated attempt at negotiation. "Who are you".

Sounded excited.

19.4.00. 11.20/25pm. Jackson. "I am Mick from the Gardaí, I am here to help you.

"I am and I am here to help you".

Why are you so upset and angry".

I asked him to put the gun down and answer the telephone so that we could talk.

"Are you a Guard".

"Go away and fuck off".

No reply.

(John Carthy mumbled something). Turned up volume of T.V. Lowered and levelled the gun at Jackson who is forced to duck behind the wall.

 

19.4.00.

 

11.38pm

Jackson.

D/Sgt. Jackson rings John Carthy.

"Where's my Solicitor?"

"Get the fuck out of here" –

hung up.

 

19.4.00.

11.38-11.40pm

Jackson. I asked John who his Solicitor was. "I want the best, the best, the best.

 

19.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson I said to John that we will get his Solicitor but he needs to tell us who he is. No reply.

 

19.4.00.

 

11.40pm

Jackson.

D/Sgt. Jackson rings John Carthy.

Hung up.

 

19.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson. I said to John that we will get any solicitor if that's what he wants.

I then asked John to come on out and leave the gun behind and we will get his solicitor to meet him outside the garden.

No reply.

"I want him to come in here, in here" (Banging the gun off the table).

Onward Jackson. I told John we were worried about the gun and it would be a problem for a solicitor to go into the house but why not come out without the gun and a solicitor would meet him outside. "No way, no way, don't bother".
Onward Jackson. Said we were willing to get a solicitor for him and that we would make sure he is there when he comes out if he leaves the gun behind. No reply.
19.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Reassured John we were not there to hurt him and that if he came out no one would hurt him. Said I believed he may not trust us but that we would get a solicitor, a friend or a Priest or anyone

He wanted to meet him outside.

"I am not coming out, no way".

 

19.4.00.

 

onwards

Jackson.

Tried to establish identity of solicitor.

No reply

 

Table 4

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY
19.4.00.

 

onwards.

Jackson.

I asked John why was he doing this. I reassured him that no one out here wanted to harm him. I told him how worried his mother, sister, friends and neighbours were about him and that they all wanted him to leave the gun behind and come on out.

No reply. (Appeared to laugh

and smirk).

Onward Jackson.

I said to John that I understood he was angry but that nothing has happened that couldn't be sorted out.

No reply.
Onward Jackson.

I told John I knew he was a good plasterer and that everyone said he was a hard worker, this meant people were willing to employ him in the future – reassured him that when he came out he would be treated fairly by everybody and that things were not as bad as they appear and what was important was that no one had been hurt including John. I told him that his family and friends care for him and that we care. I told him we will all help him when he came out. I told him the best way out of this was to leave the gun in the house and come out.

During this John kept

mumbling to himself and

turned up the T.V.

 

19.4.00.

 

11.45pm

Jackson. I asked John to put down the gun and stop shooting. Shot discharged hitting

Pillar at Negotiation Point.

"No way, no way, come on in and get me".

19.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John we don't want to hurt anyone especially you and we don't want you to hurt anyone so please stop shooting and put the gun down".

No reply.
19.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John are you thinking of hurting yourself".

No reply.
19.4.00.

 

onward.

Jackson.

Please put the gun down and lets talk.

No reply. Banged the table with butt of gun.
19.4.00.

 

onward.

Jackson.

I told John that his friend Pepper was here and that he was willing to speak to him if he wanted to do so.

"Get Pepper".

 

20.4.00.

12mn -

 

12.51am

 

Numerous calls

Jackson

Phone calls from D/Sergeant Jackson to John Carthy.

No reply.
20.4.00. 12.01a.m. Jackson.

I kept asking John to answer his phone so we could talk.

No reply.
20.4.00. 12.51a.m. Jackson.   Talking and mumbling to himself. Shot discharged.

"Fuck off".

20.4.00. 12.51am Jackson.

Continued to ask John to stop shooting answer the phone so we could talk reassuring him that we were there to help him and that the best way out for him was to leave the gun down and come on out. I mentioned again how worried his mother, sister, friends and neighbours were about him and cared for him.

"Bullshit". Shaking his head.

 Table 5

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY
20.4.00. 12.51am Jackson.

I said to John they do care and that I cared and all I wanted him to do was to come out safely.

John laughed.
20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

I said I felt his anger and resentment but I needed to know what happened to make him feel so bad.

John shouted that, "I didn't care as I was a Guard".
20.4.00. 12.51am Jackson

I told him I was a Guard but my only reason for being there was to help him no matter how badly he felt that he had been treated previously that I promise when he comes out he would be treated fairly and not be harmed. I said he was a young man with a good trade and that he had a lot of good friends and family and that some of his friends like Pepper had travelled a long distance to try and help him.

No reply.
20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

I asked him to put the gun down, talk to me and I could help sort out the problem.

No reply.
20.4.00. 1.50am Jackson.

Asked John to answer the phone.

No Reply.
20.4.00. 2.30am Jackson.

Pepper at negotiation point.

I told John, Pepper was here to talk to him.

John agreed to speak to

"Pepper" only.

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson

Rings John Carthy.

No reply.
20.4.00.

 

2.30am –

 

3.10am

Martin Shelly.

What has happened for him to end up like this in this situation, assures him that whatever it is that has happened, can be solved by leaving the gun down and coming out. Re-assures him no one is hurt and why not come out before someone gets injury.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

2.30am to 3.10am

Martin Shelly.

Asked John to leave down the gun and come out that we all loved him, that Maria and his mother were above on the road, that everything would be o.k. Did anyone upset him? Did someone do something to him?

Repeats above.

No response.
20.4.00. 2.30am Jackson.

Attempts to open dialogue.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson

Asked John about what solicitor he may want and that we are willing to get anyone he trusts to come to the scene in order to reassure him.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

I then tell John we are willing to get any solicitor for him if that will help.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson

Asks John is he alright for food or anything like that.

"Fuck off".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson

Is there anything you need?

No reply.

 

Table 6

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson

Attempting to open meaningful dialogue about something he wished us to give him.

I said to John it should not be a problem and that we need to talk about getting them in there to him.

John I want to get you the cigarettes but we have to sort out a way of getting them into you safely.

"Fags". "20 Major".

"Fuck off and don't bother".

No reply.

20.4.00. 3.25am Jackson. Called out to John to stop shooting and to put the gun down. Shot discharged hitting wall At Negotiation Point.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward.

Jackson.

We will get the cigarettes but we need to talk about them being delivered safely.

No reply.
20.4.00. 3.30am Jackson. Called on John to stop firing the gun at us and that it would not solve anything. Shot discharged at Negotiation Point hitting wall.

John smiled and shook gun defiantly.

20.4.00.

 

3.30am

 

4.30am

Jackson.

Attempted to make contact.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

4.30am

Russell.

Reconnaissance carried out.

 

 

20.4.00.

 

5.30am

D/Gda. Sullivan.

Appealed to Carthy.

No response. Appeared asleep.

 

20.4.00.

 

6am –6.15am

Russell.

T.V. Cable cut.

 
20.4.00.

 

8am

Jackson.

Told him – I am here to help him sort out this situation and that I will stay with him for as long as it takes and that all we wish is for him to come out safely I knew he had a bad day yesterday and that I knew he was angry – that he would get fair treatment and that we and his family would get him as much support as is possible and that he had a lot to look forward to in his life that he was a respected worker with lots of friends who care about him and the best thing for the future was to come out and what he did yesterday was an angry reaction and I understood this but the main thing was that no one was hurt.

Holding out his chest.

"Come on shoot me, come on".

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John we don't want to shoot you", "Are you thinking of hurting yourself". "Are you thinking about suicide".

No reply.

 

Table 7

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY
20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"Think about what will happen if you are dead think about your family and friends and how they will feel, think about Marie, your mother and Pepper, think about how they would feel if you got hurt or hurt yourself, think about how badly they are feeling at the moment because of what you are doing".

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Think about how good you would make them feel if you put the gun down and talk. If you won't come out for yourself John then come out for them. Come on John come on out.

I put my hand over the wall and asked him to come out and I would meet him in the garden if he let the gun down.

John puts head in hands –

Looks confused and anxious.

"No", "No". Shakes gun defiantly.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Repeatedly told John that his sister, Marie, his mother and all his friends want him to come out and that if he is worried about anything we can arrange for them to be there when he comes out asked him if there is anybody he trusts or will talk to.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward.

Jackson.

Rings the Clinical Psychologist, Colm Regan. He returns the call and has a consultation concerning the siege and the mental state of the person involved.

 
20.4.00.

 

9am

Jackson.

Attempts negotiations

John is talking but not audible.
20.4.00. 9.06am Jackson. Rings John Carthy

Through the loudhailer asked him to stop shooting.

Shot discharged hitting wall at Negotiation Point.

Answers, doesn't speak.

Levels gun at Jackson and turns up volume on Radio.

 

20.4.00.

 

9.42am

Jackson.   Shot discharged at Negotiation Point.

Mumbling by John.

 

20.4.00.

 

9.42am

Jackson.

Asked John if he was willing to talk to Tom Walsh.

Mumbled agreement.

 

20.4.00.

 

9.42am

Jackson.

Introduced Tom to John Carthy.

 

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Tom Walsh. Introduced himself and spoke about his Uncles and Grandfather, all tough men, they knew when to give up and that he had won, that he hadn't hurt anybody and asked him to answer the phone that it was him ringing. He came to the window and I asked him to put the gun down.  

 

Table 8

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

20.4.00.

 

onwards.

Tom Walsh.

Asks John Carthy to #answer the phone.

Tries to engage John Carthy in dialogue. Tom Walsh tells John that he and John's family are very worried about him and they don't want anything bad to happen. Reassured him that if he comes out that he is not going to be hurt and that if he wants that Tom will meet him outside in case he doesn't trust the Guards. Tom says to John that he knows John maybe worried about what happened yesterday but things are not that bad as no one had been hurt. Spoke about Sean Farrell, said he was a tough man but would know when to put the gun down and come out. I said he wouldn't be locked up and he wouldn't do time. I said he knew he was in Lomans and couldn't be prosecuted for this and he was intelligent enough himself to know this. I said he could trust me and receive treatment from his own Doctor and we'd be having a pint and a fag and laughing at this in a few weeks. I said if he came out he wouldn't be hurt and if anybody tried to hurt him they'd have to hurt me as well.

Kept picking up the phone and dropping it. Loud music in background.

Answered the phone but said nothing.

No reply, but levels the gun at Tom Walsh, who gets upset and has to be taken from scene.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Rings Carthy.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.   Requested "Major Cigarettes.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Told John that this should not be a problem. Asked John to agree a safe way of getting the cigarettes into him. "I want to get you the cigarettes but I am worried about the gun you are firing at us". "Can we agree a safe way of getting them into you".

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward.

Jackson.

I asked John was he worried about what would happen when he came out.

No reply.

 

20.4.00

 

onward

Jackson.

Repeated above.

"I'll have to go back to the hospital".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Told John: I didn't know what was happening about the hospital but Dr. Shanley was willing to come and speak to him and Dr. Shanley also said that if he had to go to hospital he could go to St. Patricks

No reply. (Laughed).

 

Table 9

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY
       

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Told John – This shows everyone is willing to help you when you come out. "John the right decision and the best way out for you is not to hurt yourself or anyone else but to put the gun down and come out, the right decision now makes up for all the bad things that happened yesterday and all the bad things that happened in your life". "The right decision now is what is important it can change everything". "Come on John come out". "It's the right thing to do". "It's the best way out".

No reply. (Head in hands).

Contemplating.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

John everyone out here is on your side, your family, friends and me, "Come on out and I'll meet you half way". "Come on out I'll meet you half way". "Come on John it's the right thing to do it's the only thing to do".

"No you won't break me no way. Becomes aggressive.

Levels the gun

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John I am not trying to break you, I just want you to come out safely, come on don't worry about yesterday come on out and we can work this out together".

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

11am

Jackson.

Shows cigarettes over the wall telling him that this shows I want to help him, telling him we want to give him the cigarettes but that it is essential that we agree a safe way to deliver them because we are worried about the gun and the fact he is firing at us.

"Bring them in to me, come on".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson

John I want to give you the cigarettes but I am worried about the gun you are firing at us, can we agree a safe way of getting the cigarettes in to you or can you suggest a safe way of getting them into you".

"Fuck off, don't bother".

Fuck off, don't bother, smiles and levels the gun at Jackson.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Told John – All we wanted was for him to come out without the gun.

Why?

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"Because I want you and everyone else to be safe.

Why?

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"Because your family, friends and us all care about you".

Why?

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"I know you are doing this because you are angry and not because you are a bad guy".

Why?

In an agitated manner.

 

20.4.00.

 

11.18am

Jackson.

"John please don't hang up I want to help".

(2 calls).

"Fuck off" – Hung up.
20.4.00.

 

11.18am

Jackson.

I said to John – that he did not seem to trust me but that we would get anyone he wanted, a solicitor, a Priest, his family, friends or anyone else.

"No nobody I'm not coming out, no way, you come in and get me, shoot me, come on".

 

Table 10

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY
       

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John we don't want to shoot you we want to help you John, you are thinking of hurting yourself, are you thinking about suicide".

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John think about what will happen if you are dead, that is not the best way out. The best way out is put the gun down and come on out and we can talk. The right thing to do is to leave the gun in the house and come on out, come on out John please".

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Held out left hand and beckoned John out, "Come on out John this is the right thing to do I know it's the right thing to do and I think you know it too".

"No its not the right thing to do".

(Handling the gun)

"This is the right thing to do".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

No John this is not the right thing to do that only hurts people and the best thing to do is the leave the gun behind you and come out". "That's the important thing". "It doesn't matter how all this started what is important is that you leave the gun behind and come out to meet me. "Come on John, I'll meet you half way if you meet me half way". "Come on John just me and you" the right decision here changes everything.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Everyone out here your mother, Marie, Pepper, Tom and all your friends that's what they want you to do so come on out and leave that gun behind.

"No way".

Levels gun at D/Sgt. Jackson and tracks him with It.

 

20.4.00.

 

11.40a.m.

Jackson.

Mentioned cigarettes saying, " I wanted to get them into him, that it was essential that we agree on a safe way of getting them into you".

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

I really want to give you the cigarettes but we must agree on a safe way of getting them into you".

"No way bring them in here" (Beckoned with hand).

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

I want you to have the cigarettes but we have to talk about how we are going to get them in to you".

"Fuck off".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Emphasised willingness to get a solicitor, Priest, family or friends or anyone he trusts to come down to the scene to be there when he comes out.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Mentioned specifically that he mentioned a Solicitor the previous night that if he tells us who the Solicitor is that if he wants we will contact him.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Informs him that his mother is very worried about him and that she cares for him a lot.

(Laughed) "You haven't lived with her for 10 fucking years".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Said it may seem to him that people didn't care but that they do that it may seem a very bad situation for him but that there is a way out.

No reply.

  

Table 11

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"Think about this John, think about everyone out here wanting you to put the gun down and coming out. Think about how you are going to do this. Think about putting that gun on the floor, walking out of the room, opening the front door and coming out to meet me, please think about it. Tried to continue dialogue with John, without success.

No reply

 

20.4.00.

 

12.24pm

John Carthy to Kevin Ireland.

"Not too bad, are you alright" x 2/3.

"I'm not too bad. I'm in the house here and there must be 60 cowardly cunts of Guards outside with guns".

"I have nearly every window blown out of the house.

20.4.00.

 

onward.

Jackson.

Jackson receives information from Command Post re: Kevin Ireland's phone call – Solicitor.

Focused on John Carthy's request relating to a Solicitor. I asked him who is it he wanted contacted.

"A Republican Solicitor, a Republican one".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

What's his number and where can we contact him, we'll get him for you and he will ensure that you are o.k. when you come out.

"No fucking way, I want him in here".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John we are worried about letting a Solicitor in there with you because of the gun you have, but we will get him to meet you outside if that is what you want, John please tell me who he is and where can he be contacted.

Repeated requests to John to identify Solicitor.

"Don't bother". "Don't bother".

No reply.

   

"Don't do anything stupid like shoot someone or shoot yourself".

I haven't a notion I'm just shooting in the air and Shooting at walls to keep them away from the house".
   

"You may give yourself up you'll get nowhere like that".

"I'm not giving myself up unless I get a solicitor. "My own family won't even get me a solicitor".
   

"I'll get the Solicitor, what Solicitor do you want".

"Mick Finucane" – Phone went dead.

 

20.4.00

 

12.26pm. approx.

Kevin Ireland

Kevin Ireland rings John Carthy.

Turned off or out of coverage.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Told him of willingness to contact solicitor if we could identify who he is.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

12.31pm

Jackson.

Rings John Carthy.

No answer.
20.4.00.

 

Before dinner.

Kieran Lennon

Kieran Lennon rings John Carthy.

Switched off.

  

Table 12

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY
      Negotiations interrupted constantly by slogans of ,

"Free State Bastards".

"You are just like the Black and Tans".

20.4.00.

 

1.08pm

    Shot discharged. Gun aimed at Negotiation Point.

Loudhailer knocked off the wall.

 

20.4.00.

 

1.38pm

Jackson.

Several Calls.

Called on loudhailer to answer phone.

D/Sergeant Jackson rings Carthy.

"John there's only a few Guards here and the only reason they are here is that you have that gun and you are firing at us. If you put the gun down and come out the Guards will go away. I'm out here to help you to come out of the house".

Answers phone and says,

"What with the 100 Guards outside and only one of me".

"You're not going to come in and take the gun off me again".

Hung up.

 

20.4.00.

 

1.40pm

Jackson.

Rings John Carthy.

No answer.

 

20.4.00.

 

1.44pm approx.

Jackson.

"John please tell me what has happened to make you do all this, tell me about it and I can help".

"I'm going to get 10 years for all of this, 10 fucking years.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

"John you won't get 10 years nobody has been hurt and that is good we understand what happened yesterday was because you were angry so come on out and it will be o.k.

"Fuck off" – Hung up.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Said to John he should not be worried about getting 10 years and that things aren't as serious as he thinks especially as no one had been hurt.

(Raises and levels the gun)

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

 

John Carthy rings D/Sergeant Jackson's mobile phone. D/Sergeant Jackson answers.

No talk. Loud music in the Background.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Sean Farrell was here and wanted to talk to him.

"Bring him down".

 

20.4.00.

 

1.30pm – 2pm

Kieran Lennon.

Kieran Lennon rings John Carthy.

Engaged.

 

20.4.00.

 

1.45pm onwards.

Jackson.

Rings John Carthy

No answer.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Kieran Lennon.

Rings John Carthy

Answered, said nothing.

  

Table 13

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

20.4.00.

 

2.05pm

 

2.50pm

Sean Farrell What has happened to cause all this.

Asked John to talk to him.

Offered reassurance that everybody including the Guards were here to help.

Sean said he would wait outside and meet John when he comes out if that is what he is worried about.

Sean makes it clear to John that he can always have work from him, that when he comes out there is always a job for him and that is guaranteed.

Sean says he is hurt and disappointed he will not talk to him.

Repeated efforts to open dialogue to no avail.

Through loudhailer told John I would ring him on mobile phone. Tried 4 to 6 times.

Tried to converse with him for minimum 1 hour.

Told John I was going away and if he wanted to contact me he could. Gave mobile number of Mick Jackson.

No reply.

No reply.

No reply.

No reply.

No reply.

No reply.

No reply.

Answer, said nothing.

Shouted out the window a few times.

20.4.00. 2.50pm onwards Jackson.

Said things were not as bad as it seemed that Sean had offered him work and Dr. Shanley had offered to help him in his worries about the hospital and despite all the shooting no one had been injured so why not come out now before things got worse.

No response.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.   "Free State Bastards, no way

am I coming out, come on in

and get me".

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

I assure John that we did not want to hurt him and all we wanted to do was to get him out of there safely.

Asked him why he was looking at his watch

No reply.

Breaking glass in window.

Constantly looking at his

watch and smiles.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward.

 

Having received information from the Command Post about a Solicitor, Mr. Finucane. Jackson tried to find out from John who Mr. Finucane was and where he could be contacted.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Offered the services of any solicitor to John if he agreed to come out with the gun.

No reply.

  

Table 14

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

20.4.00.

 

3pm

Kieran Lennon. "No".

"Ah nothing. I just rang you, "Where are you".

"Well any crack?"

"What do you want?"

"Oh I have to go, good luck"

 

20.4.00

 

3pm onwards

    Throws phone into

garden.

 

20.4.00.

 

3.20pm

Jackson.

Told John he was leaving the negotiation point for a while and colleague, Michael O'Sullivan, would talk to him.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onwards

3.20pm

to

 

4.30pm approx.

D/Gda. Sullivan. Appeals to Carthy to leave down gun and come out.

Continued attempts at negotiation.

Mentions Solicitor, Finucane's, name for first time and why we didn't get him. Then began shouting, "Are ye still there, fuck off out of here". "Free State Bastards, shoot me, shoot me".

 

20.4.00.

 

5pm onward

Jackson.

Informed John that his sister, Marie, was here and wants to speak to him and that Dr. Shanley had arrived and was willing to help.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Asked why he was looking at his watch constantly.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

5.06pm

Jackson.

John informed that his sister, Marie, is here, she is very worried about you and she wants to talk to you.

Smirked.

John Carthy discharges shot which displaces block on wall falling on D/Sergeant Jackson's head.

sounds of furniture and glass being broken in the house, heard by other members.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Again called on John to stop shooting and asked him would he talk to his sister, Marie.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Called to John that Marie, his sister, wished to speak to him on the telephone and that she would be ringing him now.

Laughed.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

Please answer the phone and talk to your sister.

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Gerry Traynor

Gerry Traynor rings John Carthy.

Powered off.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Marie Carthy

Several attempts to ring John.

No answer.

 

20.4.00.

 

5.20pm

Jackson.

I ask him to put the gun down and come out.

Why?

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson.

I tell John Dr. Shanley is here and is willing to speak to him.

No reply. Smiles and moves

around the room

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

Jackson

Still trying to make contact.

Still constantly raising and

levelling gun at Negotiation

Point.

  

Table 15

TIME/DATE CONTACT

COMMENT

REPLY

 

20.4.00.

 

5.45p.m.

Russell.

Standing on front wall as John Carthy walking up road, "Armed Gardai".

No reply.

 

20.4.00.

 

onward

 

Continually asked by members to put the gun down.

No reply and no response.

 


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