I invite Mr. Purcell to introduce this report.
Collection of Fines Report.
Mr. Purcell
This stems from my report on the effectiveness of the system of collecting fines, including both so-called on-the-spot fines and those imposed by the District Court. The report was first considered by the committee in April of last year and one of the outcomes of that meeting was an announcement that a high level review group was to be set up "to achieve greater co-ordination between the relevant agencies on the issue and service of court summonses and the issue and execution of fine warrants; to examine methods of enforcing fines and to consider methods of dealing with wrongdoing currently the subject of fines and to make recommendations."
The review group completed its report around this time last year and sent it to the committee. It was scheduled for examination earlier this year but pressure of other business prevented the committee from considering the matter. Without going over old ground again, the thrust of my report was that overall management and co-ordination of the fines system was poor. This manifested itself in the amount of money ultimately collected on foot of the fines imposed. At the meeting in April 2001, the courts service and the Garda outlined the actions they were taking to improve performance. The committee may wish to have an update on the various measures undertaken by both in the interim. The committee may also wish to consider the report of the review group and the extent to which its recommendations have been put into effect.
It is clear from the report that some of the recommendations have resource implications. It may well be that recent developments in the management of the public finances will necessitate a rethink on organisational aspects addressed in that report. The considerable impact of clamping on parking behaviour and the advent of penalty points will reduce the number of parking fine cases that make it to the courts. Any revised arrangements should be cognisant of these factors.
There were two main issues in the original value for money study which related to the courts service: the delay in the issue of summonses and the issue of warrants. The position is that the time from the date of receipt of application for a summons to the court date is 24 weeks compared to 32 weeks previously. Further improvement on that is influenced by the volume of cases and the availability of judges and courtrooms. The time for warrants to be issued has reduced to 11 weeks compared to 20 weeks at the time of the study, and 11 weeks is considered about the right length of time. It is close to the length of time within which the vast majority of people pay fines, and it avoids a situation where warrants issued must be recalled or where there is a possibility of people being arrested. It also avoids problems regarding those who have appealed to a higher court.
We would like to reduce the 24 weeks further although the drop from 32 weeks is a considerable improvement. Every effort will be made to reduce that time but it is influenced by the volume of cases coming before the courts. Summonses and warrants are the two main issues that related to the courts service. There was a representative on the group that the Comptroller and Auditor General mentioned.
Would the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform like to comment on that?
Mr. Cronin
Yes. A high level group was established representing the Department, the courts service, the Garda, the Department of the Environment and Local Government and all agencies which have an input into fines collection. Since that report was forwarded to the committee in November last year, the courts service and the Garda have addressed some of the detailed criticisms in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. As the chief executive of the courts service has said, the time taken to issue summonses and warrants has improved.
Much consideration has been given by the Department to alternatives to prison while enforcing fines and warrants with a view to bringing forward legislation in the near future. A decision has been taken in principle to provide for the payment of fines by way of instalments - that is taken as given. The Department commissioned a personal survey of those who had been imprisoned for failure to pay fines to find out the reasons for non-payment. This study was carried out by Nexus Research Co-operative and copies can be made available to members. There is very interesting information in the survey regarding fines collection and the enforcement of bail estreatment. There are issues in common in these areas.
One of the principal recommendations in the high level group report was the establishment of an executive office within the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, with a director and staff responsible for directing policy and monitoring implementation of policy on fines. Unfortunately, because of the inability to get additional resources over the last year, it has not been possible to proceed with the establishment of this office. Given the present state of the public finances and the funding available over the next year, the likelihood is that it will not be possible to establish this office in the near future. On that basis, it would fall to the Department to pursue many of the detailed recommendations which it was envisaged that office would undertake. It will be a matter for the Department to proceed with those as best it can in consultation with the other agencies involved.
Thank you. It is important that the report is circulated and a pity that the agency cannot be established due to lack of funding.
The original report by the Comptroller and Auditor General was valuable and was rooted in the principle that the purpose of the fines system is to deter undesirable behaviour. If it does not have that impact the system is brought into disrepute. I agree with the Chairman that it is a pity the agency cannot be established.
Is there a uniform facility that allows people fined by the courts, for whatever reason, to make payments by instalment or is it at the individual whim of local Garda stations?
Mr. Cronin
There is no formal provision for payment by instalment.
What of bail?
Mr. Cronin
There is no provision with regard to fines or bail.
The question was about fines.
Mr. Cronin
In terms of the legislative measures contemplated, a decision has already been taken that such legislation will include a provision for the payment of fines by instalment. The expert survey on persons who had been jailed for failure to pay fines showed that those jailed mentioned the absence of an instalment process as a major reason for their inability to pay.
Is Mr. Cronin aware that individual Garda stations flatly refuse to take instalments?
Mr. Cronin
Yes. There is no provision for instalments at the moment.
However, some gardaí make provision and accept instalments while some do not.
Mr. Cronin
In such cases, the total amount of the fine may be returned to the court office as one lump sum if gardaí accept that sum in a number of payments from the person fined. That is on a purely informal basis. Perhaps the chief superintendent——
If a woman who cannot pay her television licence is fined, there ought to be a system to permit her to discharge the fine without demanding the full amount on day one and threatening to put in her Mountjoy Prison if she does not pay. That is out of touch with the real world.
Mr. Cronin
It is accepted that there will be legislation to provide for a formal instalment system. However, that system does not exist and, if it is operated, it is at the discretion of gardaí on an informal basis.
Is legislation imminent on that?
Mr. Cronin
Yes.
Has the Department a view on the penalty points system being more widely pplied on an administrative basis rather than going through the courts?
Ms McPhillips
The chief superintendent might address that.
There is a project team operating with a view to setting up a fixed charge processing system. A contract has been entered into with Fujitsu to supply that system and to have it implemented by November 2003. That comes under the Road Traffic Act, 2002, whereby people convicted in court will receive four penalty points from the Department, as well as a fine of up to €800. They will have the option of paying a fine of €80 and accepting two penalty points during the first 28 days, or paying a fine of €120 and accepting two penalty points during the first 56 days. The third option faced by offenders who have exhausted the other two options will be to go to court. The penalty points system was brought into force at the end of last month for speeding only and is being handled on a purely manual basis at present. The order was signed by the Minister on 23 October and it came into force at the end of October. It is now up and running across the country.
Why has it been introduced on a manual basis only? Did the Garda authorities not have years of notice that it was to be introduced?
There was notice, but the legislation did not come into play until 23 October. There are plans to have a system up and running. There was a delay in the system as a result of resource implications.
Are gardaí able to handle the system manually?
We can handle it manually at the moment, as it only applies to speeding offences. It is being handled efficiently at present.
Have the Garda authorities outlined any views to the Department in respect of manifestly unreasonable speed limits that seem to have no regard to the quality of roads? One can have a speed limit of 50 mph on an excellent road but also on a transparently dangerous stretch of road. If we are to apply this system, which I support, should we not have more reasonable and appropriate speed limits?
I agree with the Deputy. Speed limits are, generally speaking, an issue for local authorities. I am aware that discussions are taking place in relation to speed limits. An authorised or assigned speed limit is the maximum speed at which a person may drive. Motorists should take into account the nature of the road on which they are travelling, weather conditions, driver ability and the ability of the car. There are several factors. If the general speed limit is 60 mph, that means that 60 mph is the maximum speed; it is not a guide as to the actual speed at which one may drive.
I wish to return to Mr. Cronin and inquire if we can pre-empt the new legislation in respect of fine collection. Will instalments be paid to the local Garda or will there be a collection agency?
Mr. Cronin
I do not think a decision has been taken on that matter yet. The concept of a collection agency was referred to, but I do not think it was in relation to on-the-spot fines, which are issued before court fines. Most fines relate to road traffic offences and the vast majority of such fines are dealt with before the courts system. The question of a collection agency is tied up with the question of the inducement that may be involved in terms of getting a person to pay a fine. Imprisonment is the alternative to non-payment at present, but other alternatives have been suggested, including community service and attachment of earnings. These issues are being examined, but it is a complex process.
As I have already said, the Bail Act, 1997, made an attempt to resolve the bail situation by providing for a one third up-front cash payment. It seemed very appropriate in theory but it was unworkable in practice as gardaí were taking in such small amounts of bail. It caused administrative nightmares. The alternatives to imprisonment when enforcing fines are being looked at, but I do not think they would necessarily relate to a collection agency, which may be more appropriate for relieving the Garda of its money changing duties in relation to on-the-spot fines.
Given what Mr. Cronin has said, would it be true to say that if collection by instalments becomes law, it will be done via Garda stations?
Mr. Cronin
No. If we are talking about the payment by instalment system, the court office would probably be the place where instalments can be transmitted. As I have said, however, the details of this have not been worked out. The Garda Síochána becomes involved when gardaí come to the doorstep with a warrant for payment or imprisonment. If an instalment order is made, it will be made through the courts and there will be a formal system for paying instalments into the appropriate court office.
Deputy Rabbitte asked earlier about the policy of speed limits on roads and the chief superintendent said that it is a matter for local authorities. We note that the Minister for Transport has indicated that in the course of transferring to the metric system for speed limit signs, a review will be undertaken of the appropriateness of speed limits for types of roads. Is the chief superintendent in a position to comment on the wide perception among drivers and law-abiding people that gardaí use the anomalies in the existing system to place themselves deliberately beside roads of a good quality - on which it is safe to drive at a speed over the designated speed limit - for the purpose of increasing dramatically the amount of fines that are paid? Gardaí seem to be doing this to an even greater extent since the on-the-spot fining system was introduced. Will the chief superintendent indicate if this is a conscious policy that is being implemented? Does he agree that it brings the road traffic regulations into disrepute and causes a great deal of cynicism among law-abiding and careful drivers?
Garda enforcement policy is based on the principle of creating a deterrent and with the aim of changing drivers' behaviour. It has nothing to do with revenue collection. The system of imposing fines is in place to act as a deterrent. Our experience of enforcement or surveillance in places where the road is safe has shown that people who speed at such locations are more than likely to speed at places where speed limits are lower or where it is not possible to safely perform checkpoints for the purpose of speed detection. The purpose of checkpoints is to change people's behaviour - that is the kernel of our traffic policing activity. Research has shown that 95% of collisions occur as a result of human error. Enforcement and surveillance is intended to change behaviour and thereby minimise such errors; it is not about collecting revenue or stopping people where it is safe to do so, although the latter is an important factor. We want to target offenders. People who offend on a main highway are more than likely to offend on roads with a speed limit of 30 mph. Our aim is to focus on the individual, which is where penalty points come in, and to focus on general behaviour.
Before we move on I wish to press the chief superintendent with a brief supplementary question. I accept what he says about changing behaviour, but does he agree that behaviour leads to danger, accidents and loss of life on the roads? Does he also agree that the behaviour of normally law abiding drivers on very safe stretches of road though exceeding the designated speed limit is not behaviour that will lead to accidents or injury? If so, it is counterproductive for the Garda to set up operations which many believe constitute fishing from a barrel. The force should be far more discriminatory in the placing of checkpoints to change behaviour that, given the state of the roads, does lead to injury when there is excessive speed.
The approach taken by the Garda is two pronged. There is covert and overt detection and surveillance for speeding and locations are designated according to history of collisions. High visibility of surveillance creates a deterrent as motorists realise that they will be caught, fined and penalised with points if they speed. Inappropriate speeding is the main cause of collisions and mayhem on the roads internationally. When someone is speeding, he or she is breaking the law.
We are moving off the agenda slightly as the matter we are dealing with is fines, but the point you are making is about the saving of lives which is very welcome.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that the penalty points system is resulting in some behavioural changes to driving attitudes. When introduced I drove to Limerick and back on the same day and motorists seemed to be driving differently. It will be some time before we can analyse the impact. Deputy Rabbitte quizzed the chief superintendent as to how the system was being administered and was told that it was being done manually. He has also been told that it is possible for such a method to work because the system deals with speeding offences only, though other offences will be phased in. The Garda knew penalty points were being introduced and is aware that other parts of the system will be coming on stream and I wonder how it is placed to deal with this.
Only 25% of owners found without tax or insurance disks paid the fixed penalty amount. For parking offences the figure is 60%. A figure of 25% is very low. Were the motorists concerned ever brought into the system or were the cars involved the sort from which the owners moved on? It seems there is a very great difference in behavioural attitudes. I wish to know if this is due to enforcement or because many of the cars ticketed were company owned?
I am not sure. We can establish what information we have on the matter. If it is a matter of tickets on cars, the only information available relates to vehicles.
Where fines are imposed, they should be easy to pay. In a consumer society it is important that people pay and where they cannot, there should be a possibility of performing community service. Imprisonment should be the very last option, which is important in terms of balance and maintaining good will.
Regarding the collection of fines and the discussion we have had today, is it agreed that we note the value-for-money study - No. 37 - presented by the Comptroller and Auditor General? Agreed.
A fixed charges processing system board has been set up and involves representatives of Departments and sections involved in road traffic enforcement. It has its own budget. Fujitsu has been contracted to deliver the service to be implemented in November 2003 at which time it should be feasible to bring forward the other sections of the multiple. For the moment we are dealing with speeding offences only.
Only one offence can be dealt with until November 2003.
Speeding is the one with which we are dealing. The system only commenced last month. It is a matter for the Government.
Regarding the effect on behaviour of penalty points for speeding, to date 17 people have been killed in November. The number of deaths is down by ten so far this year compared with last year. The Road Traffic Act, 2002, strengthens the hand of the Garda in identifying the registered owners of cars and the persons responsible for deviant behaviour. Registered owners are now obliged to supply information.
I thank the chief superintendent whose comments follow on from the discussion on the value-for-money report which has just been completed. The committee notes the report of the high level group and the fact that attempts are being made to advance matters of concern. I ask that we be kept closely informed of progress as it is a matter to which we will return from time to time. I now ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to deal with the report of the working group on court funds.