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COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS debate -
Thursday, 17 Jun 2010

Vote 20 — An Garda Síochána

Mr. Fachtna Murphy(Commissioner, An Garda Síochána) called and examined.

We are considering the 2008 annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts: Vote 20 — An Garda Síochána; and Chapter 15 — Garda civilisation.

Before we commence, I advise witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give to the committee. If a witness is directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and he or she continues to do so, he or she is entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of the evidence given. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given. They are asked to respect parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a Member of either House, a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. Members are reminded of the provisions within Standing Order 158, that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government, or the merits of the objectives of such policy or policies.

I welcome Mr. Fachtna Murphy, Commissioner of the Garda Síochána and ask him to introduce his officials.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

On my right is Mr. John Leamy, chief administrative officer, the Garda Síochána and on my left are Ms Sinéad McSweeney, director of communications, Mr. Michael Culhane, my executive director of finance, and Mr. Eugene Banks of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I must ask Mr. Cormac Carey to introduce himself and his colleague.

Mr. David Denny

My name is David Denny from personnel remuneration and my colleague, Mr. Cormac Carey, is from central policy.

You are all welcome. I now ask Mr. Buckley to introduce Vote 20 and Chapter 15. The full text of chapter 15 can be found in the annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General or on the website of the Comptroller and Auditor General at www.audgen.gov.ie

Mr. John Buckley

The Garda Vote shows a net expenditure of €1.6 billion for 2008. Some €1.1 billion went on pay, including allowances and overtime that cost €333 million. Some €249 million was paid out on Garda pensions.

One way of achieving better value is to substitute less expensive and more appropriate resources for existing resources. Chapter 15 of my annual report deals with the progress made by the Garda Síochána in implementing civilianisation, which is the replacement of gardaí with civilian staff.

Civilian staff were first introduced into the Garda Síochána in the 1970s. Between 1970 and 1998, 15 reports into different areas of Garda activity and reform recommended additional civilianisation. In particular, a report in 2001 concluded that there was a significant additional cost in employing a garda to do work that did not require garda skills and that where this work could be done by civilians, it would free up gardaí to do police work.

The number of civilian staff, in whole-time equivalents, who are working in the Garda Síochána has increased from 1,166 to 2,135 over the period 2005 to mid-2009. These civilians have been utilised to deliver new or expanded functions within the service, such as the fixed charges processing office and the Garda central vetting unit. Given the nature of the work of these units, it is clear that civilians are an appropriate resource for most of this work. The report outlines the roles of a selection of these specialised units and offices.

While a number of Government decisions from 2005 onwards envisaged replacing gardaí with civilian staff, as of 31 May 2009 the number of Garda personnel who had been released from administrative to operational duties as a result of the civilianisation programme was 144.

This is considerably less than the number envisaged even discounting cases where a specific target was not set. At the same time, the number of gardaí in designated posts or in receipt of ex-gratia allowances while carrying out administrative duties is in the region of 350 in the period to the end of June 2009.

The ratio of civilians to gardaí, at approximately 1:7, is low by international standards. The ratio is 1:3 in the UK and 1:4 in Australia, Sweden and the Netherlands. However, comparisons with other jurisdictions need to take account of the fact that An Garda Síochána is a national police force with responsibility for national security and also that there is a considerable level of outsourcing of administrative and support functions in Ireland, including in the areas of financial shared services, recruitment, infrastructure — provided by the OPW and so on — and legal services. All of these factors should be weighed and the scope for replacement of gardaí with clerical or administrative staff determined using modern analysis techniques. The setting of a definitive target would also help drive the process.

I invite the Commissioner to make his opening statement.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I thank the Chairman for the invitation to appear before the committee again in my capacity as Accounting Officer and I look forward to discussing any aspect of the Vote with him and the members of the committee.

The structure of An Garda Síochána comprises a central headquarters, national support units and geographical operational units organised into six regions, 25 divisions, 109 districts and 703 subdistricts. The strength of the Garda service on 31 December 2009 was 14,548 sworn members, inclusive of all ranks. During 2009 and to date in 2010, 1,506 gardaí have graduated from the Garda College at Templemore while 776 people left the organisation in 2009 through retirement or otherwise. To date in 2010, 209 probationer gardaí have been attested and assigned to stations throughout the country. No further student gardaí are in the system, with just nine students needing to defer attestation for one reason or another. The strength of the force on 14 June 2010 stood at 14, 670, inclusive of all ranks. Given the length of time it takes to assemble a panel from which new recruits can be drawn, an advertisement was recently placed in the national media asking people to register their interest with www.publicjobs.ie and a recruitment process is planned for later this year.

Pursuant to section 19(4) of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, the Commissioner became the appropriate authority for civilian staff of An Garda Síochána in October 2006. A dedicated civilian HR directorate was simultaneously established to support the Commissioner in discharging this new statutory responsibility and to drive forward the implementation of the civilianisation programme. The number of full-time equivalent civilian staff employed in the Garda has increased from 1,166 on 31 December 2005 to 2,113 on 30 April 2010. This represents a net increase of 947. Of these additional staff, 846 were appointed subsequent to the Commissioner becoming the appropriate authority for civilian staff.

The 2010 budget for the Garda Vote amounts to €1.39 billion, 6% less than the 2009 budget of almost €1.48 billion. To ensure we can divert the maximum amount of resources to front-line policing, I have initiated a number of action plans to allocate resources to address this issue. My general budgetary policy is aimed at securing increased efficiencies in the deployment of Garda resources. The decision to keep the overtime allocation at €80 million will assist in this respect. However, I acknowledge that, in the current changed economic environment, An Garda Síochána must contribute to the management of the public finances in order to stay within the economic parameters set by the Government. To this end, I have put in place financial controls at all levels within the Garda, including monthly reporting and profiling of overtime expenditure with a view to obtaining efficiencies and value for money in the use of overtime. My emphasis continues to be on an intelligence-led, time-limited and focused policing approach.

There are ten staff — four sworn members and six support staff — in the Garda internal audit section, which is headed by a professional accountant with extensive experience of internal audit within the public sector. I can provide the committee with a list of all audits undertaken in 2009 and to date in 2010 if it so wishes. In accordance with the provisions of section 44 of the 2005 Act, a statutory audit committee was established in 2006. In accordance with good governance, I have formally agreed a detailed audit charter with the committee.

Turning to the issue of crime, there have been 22 murders to date in 2010, an increase of one on last year. Ten of these can be described as being linked to organised crime compared with 11 in the same time period last year. The main indicators for organised criminal activity include drugs and firearms offences and both are showing significant decreases this year. Areas for concern include crimes against property such as robberies and thefts. In terms of those crimes or behaviours that impact on the quality of life, we are seeing decreases in criminal damage, public order offences and assaults. In this context, the role of community gardaí is vital in listening and responding to the needs and concerns of local communities.

Before I refer briefly to the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General on Garda civilianisation, I reiterate my commitment to attaining a lower ratio of civilian staff to sworn members, which currently stands at 1:7. However, this must be carefully planned and implemented. Civilianisation in the Garda takes a number of forms and does not necessarily imply the direct replacement by civilians of gardaí in full-time administrative posts. Civilianisation can allow sworn members who would otherwise need to perform some administrative duties to focus exclusively on their existing operational duties. Civilianisation in An Garda Síochána has involved the recruitment of a sizeable number of civilian staff to perform new or expanded administrative, managerial and professional functions in areas such as HR, IT, telecommunications, analysis, student-probationer training, accommodation, scene-of-crime support and internal audit.

In seeking to estimate the amount of operational capacity freed up or saved by the civilianisation programme, it should be remembered that several hundred of the new civilian staff recruited since 2005 were assigned to vital functional areas, such as the Garda Information Services Centre, GISC, in Castlebar, the Garda Central Vetting Unit, GCVU, and the Fixed Charge Penalty Office, FCPO, both in Thurles and the Garda National Immigration Bureau, GNIB, in Dublin. While these appointments did not result in the redeployment of gardaí from full-time operational posts, they enabled the discharge by civilian staff of functions that would otherwise need to have been carried out by sworn members on either a full-time or part-time basis. In other words, rather than putting gardaí back on the street, we were ensuring that gardaí were not taken off the street to fill these important roles in critical work areas for us as an organisation. It should also be noted that the volume of administrative work in Garda stations and offices has risen significantly in the same period arising from new statutory and other corporate governance obligations and especially from the greatly increased caseload generated by the 2,000 additional gardaí recruited for front line policing.

The Garda organisation was seeking to fill some 240 civilian vacancies when the moratorium was introduced. This figure has since increased to approximately 270. In many areas, particularly the smaller Garda stations around the country, the work associated with these vacancies must be carried out by gardaí in the absence of sufficient civilian staff to provide the necessary cover. Substantial numbers of additional gardaí could be freed for operational duties if these gaps could be filled and it is my hope and intention that this will occur as part of the next major phase of civilianisation in An Garda Síochána.

The most recent Garda Síochána Inspectorate report makes a number of recommendations on the greater use of civilian support to free up more gardaí for front line policing. As the inspectorate notes in its report, I have publicly stated my commitment at a previous meeting in the Oireachtas to attaining a ratio of civilian staff to sworn members of approximately 1:3 or 1:4. I note the inspectorate agrees with my view that this must be carefully planned and implemented. To this end, some substantial groundwork has already been laid by the civilianisation review group, which I established and is chaired by the chief administrative officer, who is present today. It is currently finalising a number of reports for submission to me. The relevant recommendations of the review group will be examined in light of the inspectorate's recommendations.

In addition to the groundwork already laid by the civilianisation review group, I have established a number of internal working groups that have been charged with urgently examining the inspectorate's recommendations, including in the area of civilianisation, and developing workable proposes and timeframes for implementation.

Further civilianisation on the scale proposed by the inspectorate will be a complex task and will require the goodwill and commitment of the stakeholders who will be involved or otherwise affected. I believe, therefore, that as a necessary impetus to get this process under way and to sustain it, there must be a realistic prospect of the necessary additional resources becoming available, at least in the medium term. My team and I are available to take whatever questions members desire to raise.

I presume we can publish Mr. Murphy's report.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

No problem.

The Commissioner and his team and the officials from the Department of Finance are welcome.

I thank Commissioner Murphy for his opening statement. I commend the Commissioner and the members of the Garda Síochána for the work they are doing on a daily basis. We saw recently some of the significant successes the Garda Síochána has had and I am acutely aware, as I am sure are all the other members, of the important work the Garda Síochána does on a daily basis which those of us in the Oireachtas very much appreciate.

By way of preface to some of the questions I wish to ask, the Comptroller has covered the area of civilianisation. In the second last paragraph of his speech the Commissioner states it is a complex task that will require the goodwill and commitment of the many stakeholders. He might clarify that. How has the civilianisation programme been received within the force up to now? Have difficulties arisen? Has it been welcomed? The Commissioner said it was complex. In what way is it complex? Is it in terms of trying to redistribute resources?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I thank the Deputy for his kind remarks regarding the work of the Garda Síochána, particularly his reference to recent operations. I can assure the committee that while I am Commissioner that work will continue, regardless of the numbers at my disposal.

To answer the Deputy's question, I do not see the integration issue for civilians and sworn members as a major problem for me. In my three years as Commissioner it has not caused me any great difficulty and I believe it is working effectively. We are putting structures in place to ensure there is a reporting arrangement that works. It has not been totally settled as yet but I see that being resolved very shortly. There are no negatives flowing from it.

The civilianisation support in the Garda Síochána did not start yesterday. It has been going on for a long number of years but we have had substantial increases in recent years, particularly since 2006. I draw the committee's attention again to the type of areas where we have deployed civilian support very effectively, such as the Garda information services section in Castlebar. What that did for the Garda Síochána was to ensure that the members on the front line — the people out on the beat — did not have to return to their stations or sit in a queue waiting on access to terminals to log crimes and incidents. It put in place a system where they could phone in to people who had expertise in terms of logging the information in Castlebar, and that is working very effectively. The Comptroller and I would be in agreement that while it is hard to quantify precisely the number of people that would have freed up, it is in the region of at least 250.

It is a fair point. I understand that if the Garda did not have civilians in place gardaí would have been used to carry out those roles. However, in terms of the figures for the number of civilians within the force, the Commissioner mentioned a figure of 2,113 which is slightly off from the 2,135 mentioned by the comptroller. Leaving that aside, if I am correct that 144 gardaí were released from administrative duties, some disparity remains in terms of the number of civilians in place versus the number of gardaí who are released to perform the front-line duties. Of the total number of gardaí — approximately 14,500 — how many would be focused purely on administrative and back office tasks?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

To explain the disparity, it is a movable feast. Many people leave the organisation to go on career breaks and different things. I do not believe we are at odds on that one and I am sure the Deputy will accept that from me.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I can give the Deputy the exact numbers if my colleagues can assist me. There are 246 members of the force in what we call designated positions and there are 117 members of the force who are in receipt of ex gratia payments. They are the people who are officially delegated to working on administrative type duties.

I wear two hats — the policing hat and the security hat. I sit down with my colleagues throughout Europe who are separate organisations in regard to security. I believe our organisation is very effective because I have control of both areas. I can act on the intelligence almost immediately because I have control over the policing side and the security side but that means I have to deploy people in key security positions. For instance, in regard to the enforcement of the most recent legislation to deal with gangland crime, which I warmly welcome and have done on many occasions, I have to deploy members of the Garda Síochána, often on inside duties — putting cases together, getting the information, analysing the intelligence with my analyst service, which I also welcome. In the past two years we have taken on board approximately 30 analysts, which is a great step forward also. I have to deploy people in certain positions but to answer the Deputy's core question, the figure I have given is 363 people who are officially designated as doing clerical positions. The long-term aim is to keep reducing that figure.

I want to give the lie to the core easy concept one might take that for every civilian person one employs, a garda is put out on the street. That is not always possible. Neither I nor my senior people could manage the force effectively if we were to go down that road. Of course, there is a big trust in trying to achieve that but it is not always possible. The prisons are full. We are out there day in, day out arresting people, bringing them before the court and charging them but with that comes a support service from time to time and, quite frequently, the experience of a qualified, trained member of the force is necessary. While I would wish to have that person out on the streets in a uniform, it is not always possible.

I accept that. A total of 363 as part of an overall figure of 14,600 is a relatively small percentage but I understand that the Commissioner will never get to a position, nor would he want to, where he has no gardaí doing administrative duties.

Regarding the Commissioner's ongoing plans to reduce the ratio, everyone accepts the ratio is still relatively high at 7:1 and is out of kilter with the European average. However, he mentioned in his opening statement that he is planning to reduce that. I understand he has identified 270 civilian vacancies, and the moratorium has put a stop on that. Has the Garda Síochána applied to the Department of Finance for sanction for any of those posts?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

It is a continuous process but I am a realist also. Where we are moving to, as I understand it, is a position where we will have an employment control framework and an employment control framework will not envisage me getting extra resources in the short term. To make significant progress I would need an injection of people but I have to be realistic in regard to the economic position in the country. I see civilian members and garda members as one. We are all civil servants to the State. I will manage the force in an integrated manner ensuring people work together. Due to this, on occasions I have had to deploy members of the force. For example, the vetting area is a key area into which I am trying to put some extra people. I look forward to redeployment from other departments if that can be achieved. I will certainly use this facility.

In his opening statement, the Commissioner stated no new Garda recruits had been taken on since the embargo was introduced. There is a substantial time lapse between when someone applies for the Garda and gets through training.

It was announced some weeks ago, however, that recruitment will start again later in the year and the Commissioner has sought expressions of interest on the website www.publicjobs.ie. How many expressions of interest have there been so far? Will the Garda Reserve be examined as an area from which recruits can be brought? Using the reserve would reduce the number of training hours required and the lead-in time to get new recruits on the street.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

There are nearly 600 members of the Garda Reserve. I will be attending Templemore College in the next two weeks to attest another 100 members of the reserve. Fifty members of the Garda Reserve have left it to join the full-time Garda Síochána.

Did those 50 reserve members transfer last year?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

No, that figure relates to the past three years.

When I became Commissioner I set up a training review group. Heretofore, it took 62 weeks to train a garda before he or she was attested with the powers of a member of An Garda Síochána. When I joined the force, we were attested the day we entered Templemore College even though we had little clue of what policing was about.

We moved into a strong regime of training since the early 1990s which has been effective. It has stood us in good stead when we were engaged in advance recruitment in the past three or four years. I am pleased we had 14,600 officers in place before the embargo.

I am sorry for interrupting but there is a problem with the technical side of things. Someone's mobile telephone is interfering with the microphones and the recording of the proceedings. Could people, including those in the Visitors' Gallery, please switch their mobile telephones off?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

One recommendation of the training review group was to reduce the length of time in training before a member can be attested to 30 weeks. The lead-in time will not be as long.

The bottom line is we must plan for numbers. That is why we were in discussions with the Minister and, subsequently, with the sanction of the Minister for Finance, we placed the recent recruitment advertisement.

I do not have the exact figure for expressions of interest but it was approximately 6,000 in the first weekend. That figure has already gone up to 15,000 and I expect it to rise even more.

Is it planned to reduce the training period from 62 weeks to 32 weeks?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

It will be reduced from 62 to 36 weeks.

Will this apply to the next batch of recruits?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes, it will be put in place for new students in the training college, whenever we get them.

If a member of the Garda Reserve were to be successful in applying for a full-time post in the main Garda force, would he or she have to carry out a full 36-week training course?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes.

No weight would, therefore, be given to an application from a recruit already in the Garda Reserve.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Other countries which have a similar regime do not give weight to such applications either. This was not addressed by the training review group.

There are approximately 14,600 full-time members in the force. What was the figure when the Commissioner took over some years ago?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

In the past five years there has been an increase in the force's membership from 12,500 to 14,500.

How many candidates were on the panels that were put on ice because of the public sector recruitment embargo? I know some of them had gone so far as medical assessments and so forth.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

A small number are left on the current panel. We had processed some 160 candidates and we still may get 300 recruits from the panel.

The issue is planning for the future. A police force must have the lifeblood of new recruits and students running through it. A lengthy recruitment freeze of, say, five years would be detrimental to the Garda Síochána. That is why the Minister has supported me on my recruitment plans, as well as the Minister for Finance giving sanction to them. I cannot say when they will happen but I must plan for it.

Can these existing panels be called again?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes. It would not be fair just to chop them as they were at advanced stages.

The number of personnel who left the force in 2009 was 776 while 1,506 came into it. There has been some comment about the loss of experience in certain ranks due to early retirements. Are the retirees coming from a certain rank? Is it affecting Garda operations? If so, how is it being managed?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Last year, among those who were eligible for retirement, there was uncertainty about the preservation of their retirement entitlements. Accordingly, we received more than 800 applications for retirement of whom 776 retired. Between 9 December 2009, budget day, and 31 December 2009, 65 people who had applied to retire withdrew their applications. This year the retirement rate is running at about one for every four last year. So far this year, 81 members have retired from the force. I do not envisage large numbers leaving immediately.

Regarding the effects of these retirements on the force, last Tuesday the Government sanctioned the promotion of 22 superintendents. I had a large vacuum at superintendent rank and had deferred several positions. I now have the ability to allocate 22 new superintendents to key front line posts, particularly at detective level and in rural areas. I have had to provide for superintendents to look after two or three districts and for inspectors to look after districts as well. This has provided significant relief in terms of the management of the force.

I refer to the overall effects. One has no wish to lose very experienced people but life goes on and people have to retire. For me, the key issue is to ensure that people are coming through the system who we can train up and who can take over from others. There are some very good officers at present, people who are well capable of leading the Garda Síochána. The success we have seen in recent times is down to the leadership of those people and down to those on the front line who day in, day out go out and make arrests and tackle people who are prepared to take part in violence, drug trafficking and other crimes. From that perspective I see no major difficulty. People will suggest there is a major difficulty but I am perfectly happy to manage the force with the officers I have, provided I can have a succession plan and put people in place.

I welcome the clarification because it is important that it is on the record. There has been much comment in this regard and from an examination of some of the comments made one would think the heart has been almost ripped out of the force, which is not the case.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

That is not coming from me.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I am pleased to clarify it. Naturally, we will always miss experience when it goes prematurely but ultimately the Garda Síochána is a large organisation and it must go on. We must have the ability to train our people and we have put a good deal in place in recent years to ensure this has taken place. For example, since I became Commissioner I have established a crime training faculty. We have brought in expertise not only from within the organisation, but from outside and from outside the country. That crime training faculty is key to ensuring I have a cadre of officers, detectives and other investigators capable of investigating the crime taking place in 2010.

It is interesting to note that the projections for retirement this year are down 75% on last year, which is significant.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

To call a spade a spade, that is probably contingent on certain issues to do with pension entitlements and so forth.

The Commissioner referred to the Garda central vetting unit in his opening statement and said he is examining how it is operating. The vetting side is an important process. Are there plans afoot to try to improve the turnaround times in that area? The anecdotal evidence I have received suggests some applications for vetting seem to take a substantial length of time. It is an important process and I am not saying it is something that should be done to a 24 hour turnaround. Does the Commissioner have a view on where it is moving to at the moment and where he would like to get to with the vetting unit?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

There are several issues in respect of vetting in this jurisdiction, including the turnaround time. There is also an issue in respect of soft information, an important issue for discussion. However, with regard to the turnaround time we are working to capacity in Thurles on accommodation and the personnel we have put in place there. I have held meetings in recent weeks to discuss where we can go in the short term. We must try to get more accommodation, which I hope will be attained, and to put in place extra people. However, this is a short-term solution.

The Deputy will be aware that some time ago, the Taoiseach made an announcement that we would be moving in the longer term to a CAB-like structure for vetting, headed by the Garda Síochána and involving the work of the key agencies such as the Departments of Education and Skills and Health and Children and others to bring to that organisation the required information. This includes hard information, in terms of the core convictions, but also soft information which is necessary to ensure data is harnessed, gathered and released to the agencies which require it in terms of the employment of people, especially those working with young children. We are attempting to increase the turnaround time in the short term. I am conscious that it has gone from a period of between four to six weeks out to between nine or ten weeks now.

The number of requests for vetting has increased significantly. The figure increased from 188,000 requests in 2007 to almost 250,000 last year and the number is increasing all the time. There is an increasing demand. The vetting unit is a classic example of where we utilise civilianisation very effectively, if I may return to that topic. I see more of this approach in other areas as well. The law requires us to have a police officer managing and signing off on the function but there are civilian staff working in respect of processing the request.

There has been a substantial increase in the number of cases. The Commissioner referred to an increase to 250,000 from 188,000. I realise it may be a matter of policy or legislation but I seek the view of the Commissioner. If someone is working in the health sector as a home care worker and is vetted for a certain job and that person moves to another job within the sector following a short period, there is a requirement to vet that person again. How many cases on hand are down to carrying out multiple vetting of the same individuals? Is this adding to the workload and is there anything that can be done to alleviate it? Is it the case that a person who has been vetted within a 12 month period must be re-vetted? This happens a good deal even if a person is moving within an organisation. For example, I refer to the case of the HSE. If a person is moving from one care centre to another, another set of vetting requirements must be carried out and the case must go back through the Garda vetting unit. Does the Commissioner have a handle on the number of such cases ?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I have no idea of the number in that category. However, such a condition does not make sense to me if one is moving from one care centre to another under the same employer. The issue relates to the employers. That is where people should make decisions. It makes no sense to me. However, I have no information.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I am sure the superintendent in the Garda vetting unit will be in a position to comment on that. I doubt if it is in any way significant. People are practical enough to realise that if one was vetted yesterday——

Specifically, is the PPS number used as a key tracking device?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I will give the committee a note on it.

It would be interesting to get a handle on that. While it may not be significant to the overall numbers, it is something all of us have received complaints about, especially in cases of moving within the same employer. It does not make any sense.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I have to be realistic. The word employer is the key to solving that problem. Employers should keep a track of these matters. Of course we must be careful. One must consider what amounts to a reasonable length of time having elapsed, such as 12 or 18 months. Many things could have happened in that 12 or 18 months which might not be known to the employer. There is no perfect solution to this. I would be pleased to ask my superintendent from the vetting unit to research the matter for me and I will come back to the Chairman.

Before I call on Deputy Broughan, will the Commissioner confirm if there is a problem at the moment with the Garda car fleet? Certain manufacturers have withdrawn the guarantee on cars that have travelled more than 300,000 km. What is the impact on the fleet? Is the Commissioner in a position to replace the cars from which safety certification has been withdrawn?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I have started to withdraw some cars on the advice of the chief administrative officer, whom I call on to explain the position.

Mr. John Leamy

At the moment there are 2,812 vehicles in the Garda fleet. The issue is in respect of cars with a very high mileage, cars with in excess of 300,000 km on the clock. Before they reach that level, all our cars go through regular maintenance checks and NCT tests. There is a profile of each car in regard to its condition. When the manufacturer takes the car in for service, it feeds a certain amount of information into each car. They go through a fairly rigorous health check.

I am sorry to interrupt Mr. Leamy but there is a vote in the Dáil.

There are no pairs.

I thought that had been sorted out.

I will make a call to the Chief Whip.

Mr. John Leamy

When the cars reach 300,000 km, that is an end-of-life position which all manufacturers of motor vehicles take, irrespective of whether it is a Garda car or an ordinary car. Beyond 300,000 km, manufacturers do not guarantee the safety of a car. We have taken a decision that when they reach that stage, and based on all manufacturers' positions, we must retire those cars on health and safety grounds. That is the position we have recently taken. Currently, we have 13 cars in that category which we must retire.

What are Mr. Leamy's projections?

Mr. John Leamy

By the end of the year, we could have approximately 70 cars in that category.

Will they be replaced immediately?

Mr. John Leamy

Currently, we are going out to tender. A tender is almost complete and is ready to go to the market within the next week or so. By autumn of this year — October and November — we will have gone through the process of evaluation of those tenders and have a preferred bidder. At that stage, we will have to look at our financial position to see if we are able to start to replace cars by the end of the year. Our intention is to replace cars by the end of this year.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

No more than the life blood of young gardaí joining the Garda Síochána, we need vehicles as well. As Mr. Leamy said, we will evaluate our position in regard to money but we will probably have to make arrangements if we do not have any extra money from other parts of the Vote, because it is necessary.

Mr. John Leamy

We have a significant number of cars in the fleet that have very low mileage on them. Part of our strategy is to replace the high mileage cars with low mileage ones and to use some other method for travelling and for the business of the low mileage cars in the fleet which are rarely used. We reckon we are fine for the next six or nine months or so in terms of the number of low mileage cars with which we will replace the high mileage cars. However, by the end of the year, we will need to start to replace the high mileage cars.

I understood there was an impact already in some areas in that cars have been withdrawn — where they had two or three cars, they are down to one car.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

That should not be the position because the bottom line is there is an allocation by region and division and it is up to the regional managers to allocate the cars. As of now, we have only taken 13 cars out of commission. It is a matter for management. One will hear stories but I rely on my managers and I delegate that responsibility to them to ensure they are deploying their resources to the greatest need. In the past two or three years, that is the thrust of what we have had to do not only in terms of fleet management but in regard to resources. In more economic straitened times, we must ensure we deploy our resources in the areas of greatest need.

We will adjourn for 15 minutes for the vote in the Dáil.

Sitting suspended at 11.05 a.m. and resumed at 11.25 a.m.

We shall resume. My apologies to the Commissioner for the delay.

I welcome the Commissioner, all his staff and the officials from the Department of Finance.

When I left for the Dáil division, we were talking about the fleet. How many vehicles are now in the fleet and what is the average age?

Mr. John Leamy

The total number of vehicles in the fleet is 2,812. There are 19 cars less than a year old, 386 less than two years old and almost 1,850 under four years. The rest of them would be older than four years.

In the 2007 report there was the famous issue as regards the bulk buying of cars. Clearly, cars in the 1,850 cohort would be from that era.

Mr. John Leamy

They would be, yes. At the moment 67% of the fleet is less than four years old and the bulk of cars would have been bought in that tranche in 2007.

Have vehicles been bought last year and this year?

Mr. John Leamy

We did not buy any cars last year, and we bought no cars this year. That is why we are keen to have some replacements towards the end of this year.

The key recommendation of the Comptroller and Auditor General in the last report was for the Garda to seek significant discounts in the event of bulk buying. I presume that will happen.

Mr. John Leamy

I shall ask Mr. Culhane who has been involved in drawing up the tender to reply to the Deputy on that.

Mr. Michael Culhane

The tender has been completed and it is with the GSA for advertising in the EU journal. When the tenders are received they are evaluated and one of the key evaluation criteria is price. We look at the most competitive prices available. Certainly, we are very sensitive to the prices of vehicles.

Is the Garda Síochána tendering for a significant number of cars, or will it be towards the end of this year?

Mr. Michael Culhane

As the Commissioner said earlier, it depends on the amount of money available. We have given indicative quantities to the market so their prices will reflect the large volume of vehicles we require in terms of tenders reflecting the most competitive prices.

In terms of the point the Comptroller and Auditor General made the last time, the Garda will be looking for the best possible deal because of the size of the order.

Mr. Michael Culhane

I can assure the Deputy that we are looking for the most competitive deal we can get. Certainly, in terms of achieving value for money the objective is to achieve the lowest possible unit price per car.

I noticed on the Garda website last December, that a request for tenders to engage a professional fleet management service had been completed. It is now apparently the case that this, in effect, outsourcing tender was not awarded, as it was deemed to be cost prohibitive. The management and maintenance was to be insourced as well. Why was that decision made and was there a cost-benefit analysis? How much did the original tender on the maintenance cost?

Mr. Michael Culhane

The tender on the website recently had to do with the advice in relation to the management of the fleet in general, rather than the outsourcing of the maintenance. We went to the market some time ago for the purposes of outsourcing the management of the maintenance of the fleet. We received five tenders in response to that, three of which were subsequently withdrawn. The other two were evaluated as not being suitable in terms of delivering value for money or being able to do the work required. As a result, we insourced the management of the maintenance of the fleet. In tandem with this we established a call centre within the transport section. We also explored a number of options with some vehicle suppliers. In particular, we launched a pilot project with Ford Motor Company, whereby it would manage the management of the Ford vehicles in three divisions. That project subsequently was evaluated and then rolled out to the rest of the divisions. Effectively, we have a managed service for approximately 55% of the fleet through Ford Motor Company. That was a pilot project for approximately six months that has been evaluated and found to be very successful. We have prepared a tender for the maintenance of the entire fleet for the purpose of placing it on the market. However, the management of the maintenance itself will be managed by the transport section within the Garda Síochána.

That has been kept internal.

Mr. Michael Culhane

Yes.

Was a cost associated with originally running that tender unsuccessfully for the management function?

Mr. Michael Culhane

No, there was no cost, apart from the time involved. There were no additional costs for that purpose.

In respect of aircraft, I will revert to the last report. I believe the Commissioner told members in November 2007 that the AS 355N Twin Squirrel helicopter had been decommissioned but has not yet been sold. When examining these accounts pertaining to capital assets, no disposal appears to have taken place of the Squirrel helicopter. Can Mr. Culhane shed any light on this issue? What is happening?

Mr. Michael Culhane

The Squirrel helicopter has actually now been sold. Obviously, it took some time to dispose of the helicopter. First, given its nature, we were obliged to engage with an agent to act on our behalf to sell it. The helicopter contained police role equipment that had to be removed and therefore had to be decommissioned. Moreover, the helicopter is on the military register rather than being on a civilian register and that also has its own implications. However, the helicopter was put up for sale and we received two tenders. We subsequently sold it for €400,000 and given the aircraft's age and number of hours flown, it was considered that we got good value in terms of achieving that sum.

What is the Garda's current access to aircraft support or to helicopters?

Mr. Michael Culhane

The fleet has two helicopters. They are piloted by the Air Corps and in respect of the mission itself, obviously have gardaí on board. As for the maintenance of the aircraft, we have in place two maintenance contracts. One is for support by the hour, which is for the maintenance of critical parts. There also is a support agreement for the airframe as well.

In other words, the Garda has access to air——

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Our current aerial fleet comprises two helicopters and one fixed wing aircraft, the Defender. As for the price we received for the Squirrel helicopter, I was highly conscious of certain issues regarding the disposal of helicopters that were raised with me on the last occasion I appeared before this committee. I was very conscious of this and we bent over backwards to ensure the price we got was the best available. We took advice from three different areas. In addition, as the director of finance has noted already, the helicopter's military status also kept the price down when going to the civil side of the outside market. This was because it would entail considerable outlay for any purchaser, who would be obliged to convert it from military to civil aviation status. Consequently, I am quite satisfied that the price we got at the time constituted good value for money, bearing in mind the age of the machine and the hours flown on it.

I will revert to Vote 20 in respect of subhead 1, which pertains to salaries, wages and allowances. The striking point about the Vote is that such a significant portion of it is for overtime and extra attendance. In the accounts before members, it is for €115 million, which represents 12% of the total salary cost. While this is a reduction from the previous year, it still seems to be a major amount. In the details, I notice provision for overtime and extra attendance of €115 million, shift and roster allowances of €125 million but the total extra remuneration is €333 million. I also noticed that one member, for example, earned €80,990, which is almost €81,000, in overtime. Does the Commissioner agree it would be fair to state there is a very strong culture of overtime within the Garda Síochána? What steps, if any, are being taken to alleviate this and have a situation in which members do not appear to depend so much on overtime?

Deputy Darragh O'Brien took the Chair.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

First, I do not accept there is an overtime culture within the Garda Síochána. Overtime is a necessary ingredient and facility for a police force to run its operations. We do not have five-day criminals and nor do people stop at 5 p.m. on Friday evenings. Consequently, we must ensure that I have the flexibility to deploy people. If one considers the present position, I have maintained the overtime allocation this year for €80 million to be spent. The comparable figure last year was just under €80 million but the year before that, we spent €115 million. This amounts to a reduction of €35 million. The key issue for me is to ensure that such overtime is utilised in the front line in the first instance, to ensure the service we provide to the public and the communities we police is maintained. Second, I must ensure that the operations are intelligence led, as I stated in my opening statement, are focused and are driven. As for the overtime element in this regard, the bottom line is that were a murder to take place at 11 p.m. tonight, God forbid, I could not tell the people involved to wait until we came into work tomorrow morning. I must deploy people at that time and do not accept for a minute that an overtime culture exists.

For example, I refer to the presence of gardaí in courts. I note the court presenter system was introduced within the Dublin region. Is it still operating on a pilot basis and has it reduced costs? According to the figures I have to hand, approximately 25% appears to emanate from the work gardaí do in court. Why has the court presenter system not been taken into the mainstream? Why has it not been extended nationwide to locations such as Cork, Limerick and everywhere else?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I will answer that question. The court presenter system works in the Dublin metropolitan region. Outside that region, the Garda Síochána prosecutes in the District Courts on behalf of the Director of Public Prosecutions. A report called the Nally report was drawn up on this subject some years ago. May God rest the man who chaired it, who died last Christmas. At the time, it was recommended to retain that system. It is a very effective system and it ensures that either my superintendents or else inspectors acting for them are in the District Court. I have a great concern in respect of the amount of money that is being spent in court attendance but there are more stakeholders in this regard than the Garda Síochána alone. Indeed, I had considerable discussions in this regard when appearing before Mr. McCarthy's an bord snip, if I may use the colloquialism. While I would be pleased to go down the road with the suggestions made, the bottom line is that this reflects the facts that members of the Garda Síochána are going into court to an increasing extent and are bringing the wrongdoers before the courts. This is an issue for us and we have struggled to do anything with it in respect of making reductions because we must service the courts.

I welcome the initiatives that were introduced through legislation over the years. If one goes back to 1984, a provision was introduced on the other side, for want of a better word, whereby the defence would agree that members of the Garda Síochána who did something like simply preserving a scene for eight hours were not obliged to appear in court. Did it work? No, it did not because agreement was not forthcoming and we still are discussing it in 2010. I welcome the initiative contained in the Bill that will soon come before the Dáil regarding greater emphasis on certificate evidence. However, the stakeholders, that is, lawyers, courts and everyone must sign up to that to ensure a reduction in the amount of money spent. I would much prefer to be using this money on the front line. I would prefer to be using it in intelligence-led operations that target criminals and those who are engaged in crime. However, I must service the courts. It is not like what one might see on television, where one never sees people going to court. They get their man but one never sees them in court. My people are obliged to go to court to give the evidence.

Is the Dublin scheme still going?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I increased the strength by six sergeants. Every station in Dublin is covered by the scheme with the exception of the Balbriggan district which came into the Dublin metropolitan region in recent years when I made the boundary changes. The only reason that is not there is we have the country system where the local superintendent prosecutes. That is a very economic system for the State outside of Dublin where the Garda does the work for the DPP. The DPP requires that because the Chief Inspector made a recommendation, it should be outsourced to a prosecution service such as the DPP. It is the only recommendation the Chief Inspector has made since the inspectorate was set up that I could not comply with. That is because of the system that is in place. I share the concerns of the Deputy and the committee and I would welcome anything that could be done about it but I have stated where we are on it. A key number of stakeholders and not just the Garda must sign up to the process. There is no need for members of An Garda Síochána to be waiting around in court to give evidence to say that they preserved a particular scene. That should be done by certified evidence. I have not gone into this in any great detail but, as I understand it, there will be more of an emphasis on certified evidence going forward under the next criminal justice Bill the Minister will introduce.

I refer to the resource allocation report of October 2009 by Kathleen O'Toole, the Garda Chief Inspector, and her critique of the current four-shift roster system in the metropolitan area. The view of the inspectorate is that first and foremost the hours gardaí are asked to work do not adhere to European health and safety legislation. She cites gardaí working, for example, 33 hours flat out or 24 hours flat out and not getting 18 hours rest at the weekend. Her primary concern is the health and safety of members but she also highlights the flexibility open to the Commissioner and local commanders to deploy gardaí at different times.

Citizens often say that to us. I am on two Garda forums — Fingal county forum and the Dublin city forum — because I have a particular interest in policing and security, which is the first service of the State. People often say there are times when they can mind themselves but during critical hours in the evening when society is vulnerable, manpower is crucial. Has the Garda come forward with a response to Ms O'Toole's recommendations? As Mr. Murphy said, criminals do not take a break on Sundays and, therefore, continual protection is needed. Is Mr. Murphy examining ways to move towards the ambitions set out by the inspectorate for the force?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes. I very much welcome the six reports the inspector has published. There have been hundreds of recommendations but I only rejected one, which I had to reject because it related to the prosecution of offences.

We are lucky to have members who are so flexible that they will do the work and the long hours described by the Deputy because those cases probably involved serious criminal investigation. The other side of this is I have asked my Deputy Commissioner, Nacie Rice, to address the recommendations of the resource report and that work is ongoing. However, things get lost in the telling at times. The Deputy may well interpret that report as saying there is no flexibility in An Garda Síochána. In the Dublin metropolitan north inner city division, 35% of the uniformed force are on the four-shift system while the remaining 65% provide flexibility. That is huge in anybody's estimation.

Are they deployed in the community?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes, in community policing, special resourcing, the resource support unit and so on. The Deputy can name it. That flexibility has been there for a long time. When we had a pay agreement in 1999, I was the assistant commissioner in HRM and I was engaged with the staff associations to ensure more flexibility and changes in rostering and they always make that case. I think at the time it was about 50% flexibility. Throughout the country, we have almost 250 different starting times because we determine it as necessary to ensure we provide the best possible policing service at the most important hours. I try to have fewer people working at 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. yet representatives of the liquor trade come in to me to make a case to extend opening hours. We learned from the experience in the UK.

The answer to the Deputy's question is we are looking at those recommendations. I welcome them but, at the same time, I have to be practical in terms of the money I can utilise, particularly in regard to the recommendations on technology. However, there are issues with rostering. The working time directive will create an issue for us. Some members finish work at six on a Monday morning and they are back before a court by 10.30 a.m. because the criminal justice system requires they are there to prosecute their case.

I refer to subhead 1 in Vote 20 and the bill for compensation. The outturn for 2008 was more than €29 million, which was 177% higher than the original estimate. I acknowledge there is a distinction between civil actions taken against the Garda compensation scheme and claims arising out of accidents. Is Mr. Murphy surprised at that? What has happened regarding this allocation since? I appreciate the Garda does a dangerous and difficult job. The Chief Inspector's report notes that sick leave in the force runs at ten shifts per annum per member while, for example, the 43 forces in the UK average seven shifts. Are these two areas of concern for the Garda? What, if anything, can be done regarding sick leave? Could the rostering and long hours I mentioned be contributory factors to these issues?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

With regard to compensation, I presume the Deputy is referring to awards under the Compensation Acts, 1941 and 1945. I very much welcome the decision of Ms Justice Irvine in the High Court, which I am sure the Deputy will have read about in the newspapers over the past few days, because we got some clarity about compensation cases, awards and the stakeholders involved such as the legal people, the courts, etc. I am glad that she commented that Garda management has bent over backwards to ensure our members are fully up to speed in regard to health and welfare issues. To that end, only in that past few months we hired two new professional doctors to boost our occupational programme and we reviewed our occupational health in the last two years and that should help. There is an occupational health strategy, which I will ask my chief administrative officer to comment on, because he has led out on it for me.

Mr. John Leamy

We want to put in place a more proactive health policy promoting good health throughout the organisation. With that in mind, we made a case to the Department of Finance for the recruitment of additional doctors and nurses to help us in that aim and, as part of the integration of civilianisation, to have the chief medical officer, CMO, in the Garda Síochána be responsible for the civilian part of the organisation as well. As the Department of Finance gave us sanction for those measures, we recently have recruited two doctors and four nurses. Our plan now is to set out a new strategy in respect of health and health issues and on sick leave and its management. We also are examining the technology that is available to us to manage sick leave within the organisation and have started to roll out a number of information technology, IT, systems that will help us at local and regional level to manage our sick leave much more effectively.

I must ask Deputy Broughan to wind up, as he has gone well over the allotted time.

I have one final point regarding the inspector's report. The Commissioner is aware of the criticism that was made in respect of the allocation of resources in respect of computer aided dispatch, CAD, information. Has the Garda done anything in response to that criticism?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes. Had I several billion available, I could implement that report immediately. However, the bottom line is that I do not have several billion. I have what I have and must cut the cloth according to our measure. However, we spent €550,000 on a CAD system. Some very good state-of-the-art utopia-type recommendations have been made regarding computerisation and resource management and we will implement them as we go along but only in accordance with the money available to us. We have a computer aided dispatch, CAD, system in the Dublin metropolitan area. We have been obliged to patch it up, so to speak, and have spent €550,000 on it. That will work for the next two or three years, while we try to plan in order to make available to us the finance to move on the technology recommendations.

Does that system give the Garda a real-time flow of information about its available resources?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes, to a certain extent. However, it is not utopia and is not the best system in the world. I appreciate where the Chief Inspector is coming from. While that is the best possible system and we must work towards that, I must be realistic. I stated earlier that I was a realist and I simply do not have the money to spend immediately on that type of technology. I am working towards it and there are many other areas on which we are working. The key area on which I am focusing at present is to ensure the roll-out of the national digital radio system in order that my officers on the street or in dangerous situations will have the requisite communications facilities available to them. That is the focus at present and it will be rolled out by the middle of next year. This roll-out will include the northern region, where there is a great need to have a communications system that is compatible with the Police Service of Northern Ireland, as a significant amount of activity is conducted jointly by the police forces. This is the focus at present and we will get to those other technology issues as part of the information and communication technology, ICT, strategy that is being developed at present.

I assure the Deputy and the committee that we greatly welcome those recommendations. They are state-of-the-art recommendations and we will work towards them. However, that does not mean we are not being effective. I would challenge anyone to assert that we are not being effective in the meantime. We are and we are working towards those systems being put in place.

I thank the Commissioner.

I have two questions. I will pick up on the point mentioned by Deputy Broughan regarding the expenditure subheading on compensation and the outturn of €29 million. We have a detailed analysis of amounts paid to members of the Garda Síochána for various forms of action. Does the Commissioner have details or can he provide members with an overview of payments made to members of the public for actions taken against the Garda Síochána? Does he have a categorisation in this regard? While he may not have such figures to hand today, he may furnish them afterwards.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I do not have a detailed breakdown but we can get this information for the Deputy.

Is that information under note 14 on miscellaneous items?

I believe the detail contained in note 14 pertains to members of the Garda Síochána. I seek details of compensation payments and the categorisation of payments to those who are not members of the Garda Síochána.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I will ask my chief administrative officer, Mr. Leamy, to provide some of the information. He may be in a position to help the Deputy in part.

Mr. John Leamy

Civil actions are taken arising from non-malicious injuries to gardaí, injuries to civilians on Garda premises, legal actions taken by gardaí, legal actions arising from acts or omissions by gardaí and traffic accidents involving Garda vehicles. These are the main categories. Under that civil action heading, expenditure in 2008 and 2009 was €10.71 million and €9.5 million, respectively. I am unclear whether the Deputy seeks further information.

Perhaps Mr. Leamy could tabulate for members the number of actions and the quantity of——

Mr. John Leamy

We certainly can do that under each of those headings.

I refer to the expenditure subhead regarding the witness security programme, which I presume refers to the witness protection scheme. I seek an overview in this regard. I acknowledge the witnesses are restricted in what they can say.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

The witness security programme operates on an ad hoc basis and has done so for a number of years. It is managed from within the security section and is an area into which I cannot go into much detail with regard to cases. However, it is a significant tool. I have been asked about it by this committee previously. One difficulty we have in getting people into the programme is that this is a small country of 4.2 million people. Many people know one another and many people do not wish to leave the areas in which they live. At present, we are protecting a woman on the north side of Dublin who refused to enter the programme. It is costing me significantly to protect her and it would have been far more cost-effective had she entered the programme. A number of people are within the programme but I do not intend to give the number because I do not wish to give any information that might in any way indicate people’s location. I am sure members will respect this. We have reallocated people over a ten-year period. The figures are available in respect of expenditure. I believe we have these figures to hand and I can provide a breakdown of them to the Deputy. We spent €0.78 million, €1.16 million and €0.461 million in 2009, 2008 and 2007, respectively. The reason the figure varies is because there may be settlements in respect of the relocation of people.

The programme is working effectively when we can get people to enter it. However, two issues have challenged us, which I have discussed before this committee a number of times. The first is to get witnesses to come forward who are prepared to give evidence on what they saw, what they know and on what they did or did not do. Second, I refer to the expectation that such people would be obliged to uproot themselves from areas of Dublin, Cork or Galway in which they had lived for the past 40 or 50 years and leave the country, never to return, for security reasons. It is a significant tool that works on an ad hoc basis. There has been some discussion about whether it should be statutory or ad hoc. I do not mind how it operates because the bottom line is that without getting those people to come forward to give the evidence and be prepared to enter the programme, it will not work. I acknowledge that we have had our difficulties and some people were in the programme for a couple of years but then wished to get out of it. I read the newspapers just as does everyone else and one or two people went public in this regard. This is a difficult issue for us but it is a programme that is vital to take on the gangland type of activity and the drug trafficking that is ongoing at present.

I thank the Commissioner.

I welcome the Commissioner and his staff. There were recommendations in the McCarthy report on special allowances paid to the gardaí, that it should be possible to make savings of €50 million in that area. When we look at the allowances listed in the report, it is hard to understand the rationale behind them in the present day. The most recent figures for 2008 show rent allowances running to €59 million. What is the justification for the payment of that allowance?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I will ask my colleague from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to address that because that Department chairs the conciliation and arbitration scheme under which this was agreed.

I have two more questions on allowances so I will ask them first. I am querying the non-public duty allowances, which amount to €1.7 million, to members who perform duties of a non-public nature in sports stadia and at race meetings and so on. It is difficult to see any justification for those payments. I am also concerned about the Gaeltacht allowance and the Aran Islands allowance. I would have thought that if special allowances were to be paid to the gardaí, those allowances would be paid on the basis of risk to members. In my constituency and in the greater Dublin area in general, many gardaí put their lives on the line in the course of their duties. I would have thought special allowances should go to those who take risks than those working in Gaeltacht areas.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Before I ask Mr. Banks to come in, on the Gaeltacht allowance, that is a national policy issue so I will not second guess it. I am only one player in it. For non-public duty payments, we recoup that money, it is paid to those prepared to work at concerts or at events.

Is there a breakdown of that recoupment from the different sporting organisations and could we see it?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes. It is recouped under the Garda Síochána Act 2005, as the Deputy will be aware. Everywhere we provide a policing service of a non-public nature, we sit down with the organisers and work out a realistic price for our services. Oxegen, Croke Park and all the others are done in conjunction with the organisers.

Can the full costs of policing those events be recouped?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Not all of it.

How much, roughly?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

There is a public interest issue for us in terms of preventing crime. Social life in the country must go on and we must police it. I will get the figures.

Is there a general yardstick?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

We worked hard on that.

Will the Commissioner give us the figures first?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

In 2008, we recouped €6.734 million, in 2009, €4.377 million and in 2010 so far, €2.232 million, from areas such as Croke Park and other GAA events, the FAI, soccer clubs, the IRFU, horse racing, concerts, the National Ploughing Championships and blasting contractors. This was included in the 2005 Garda Síochána Act and we comply with it.

On the criteria, I have seen in other countries that is hard to have a hard and fast rule. My people are strong in getting payment for their services. We were paid €1.7 million to provide a policing service for the Ryder Cup. That is the yardstick.

How does the Garda Síochána determine the appropriate contribution?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

It is done in accordance with the provisions in the Act. If a promoter wants gardaí to work at a concert, I do not have money to throw around so that is why we charge. I will give the breakdown to the committee.

The Commissioner mentioned working inside such events. Is there a charge for a Garda presence outside and in the vicinity of the event?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I have asked a working group to review the whole area because I also have to put people outside. I am looking at changing the strategy but I have not made a decision. My director of finance will give an idea of what I am looking at but I must make realistic decisions that will ensure the policing requirements, particularly for communities, are fulfilled. A small event in a rural area has more to it than core commercial issues and if I applied core commercial criteria to it, that would be the wrong thing to do. We must get the balance right and it is not easy. I have told the committee what we have recouped so far for the services we have provided over the last four years.

Why would there be a drop of €2.4 million between 2008 and 2009.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

There were more high profile events, such as the Ryder Cup, that year.

Can we get a breakdown of the payments made by different organisations?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Does the Deputy want that? I will go back and get it, although I will have to deploy resources to that. It will take time. I can give the figures I have here, but if the Deputy wants pounds, shillings and pence for each event, we will do that.

A breakdown will be sufficient.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

We will do that but I will have to deploy resources to do it.

To clarify, does Deputy Shortall want it broken down by event or by category of event?

I would like it to be broken down by organisation.

Mr. Eugene Banks

The rent allowance payment has been in place since time immemorial. It was paid to members who had to live outside Garda stations. Historically members lived in the Garda station and accommodation invariably ran out as numbers increased. Members were paid an allowance to live outside. Reports over the years have looked at the rent allowance and recommended its maintenance. It is part and parcel of members' remuneration, it is pensionable and taxable. That is the rationale behind it.

I gather the comment was made to the McCarthy group that a value for money review of all of these payments was being considered. Has that started?

Mr. Eugene Banks

No, it has not. I am not sure what stage that is at but it has not started.

The report stated that the group urged the Government to carry out such a review as soon as possible and examine the ongoing rationale for these allowances. Nothing has happened evidently.

Mr. Eugene Banks

Nothing is happening at the moment.

I want to ask about the basis on which decisions are taken about the allocation of resources. To what extent is control of budgets a factor in promotions within the force? I refer, in particular, to districts in which higher demands are placed on gardaí. I have always been conscious of this being a factor. It is helpful to a person's career prospects if a budget can be kept under strict control. There may be high demands on the budget, but resource allocations may not necessarily be made to the areas in which they are most needed. How is this balanced and how does the Commissioner ensure adequate resources are allocated to the areas in which crime levels are at their highest?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Who gave the Deputy the notion that keeping within budget is good for one's career? I do not promote that idea because my officers must be realistic in the allocation of resources.

When resources are tight, it is frowned upon if a chief superintendent seeks extra resources.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I will ask the executive director of finance to contribute on the issue of core monitoring. We monitor and profile expenditure on a monthly basis. As we no longer have the facility to seek a supplementary budget at the end of the year, I must accept and work within the budget provided by the Government. We allocate resources based on our experience and make contingency plans. While the Deputy was absent, I mentioned that we did not just have criminals five days a week. We have emergencies and events late at night and weekends and must provide resources to deal with them. The only issue that caused me concern last year, thanks to the work done by Mr. Culhane, was superannuation, which is a matter outside my control. Some 776 members of the force retired and we had only budgeted for 406. That was the only area in which the budget was exceeded.

Mr. Michael Culhane

The annual budget allocation is converted into overtime hours. We keep detailed statistics for a number of years, by region, division and district and within various specialist units. In determining the allocation we are mindful of past trends in crime statistics and the demands placed on various districts. Once the Commissioner approves the budget, an allocation from the overtime budget is made to assistant commissioners who, in turn, allocate resources to chief superintendents. They have the operational knowledge of where demands are likely to arise within regions, divisions and districts. They have discretion and are in the best position to determine where resources should be allocated. We are mindful of past trends and conscious of upcoming events. It is up to operational management to determine how best it can match resources and demands.

I appreciate it is not an exact science, but are performance indicators applied to divisions and units within the force?

Mr. Michael Culhane

It is difficult to predict future trends in crime levels. The crime statistics form a database that informs decisions on the allocation of resources. When we allocate budgets to assistant commissioners, we advise them to make contingency plans to allow for unexpected events. At the centre, we cannot anticipate what events will happen, but we urge assistant commissioners to retain a proportion of their annual allocation to allow for unexpected events.

Apart from unexpected events, how does the Garda Síochána measure performance across divisions and units?

Mr. Michael Culhane

I am not sure if Mr. Leamy or the Commissioner would wish to comment on this issue. From a budgetary control point of view, budgets are allocated within regions and divisions and we monitor expenditure against the budget allocated. Where expenditure exceeds the budgetary allocation, on an exceptional basis this gives rise to an investigation of variances. This is how we approach the issue from a financial management point of view. From an operational point of view, it is within the control of assistant commissioners and chief superintendents.

I have a particular concern about the national drugs unit. There were no significant seizures, according to the figures released for the first four months of the year. Drugs offences are different from others because they are only recorded after detection. If ten houses are broken into, ten offences are recorded, irrespective of whether there is detection. However, in the case of drugs offences, only seizures are recorded. The figures indicate a significant reduction in the number of drugs offences detections, even though, anecdotally, we accept the problem has not reduced at community level. How are decisions taken in this respect? It seems the level of activity on the part of the national drugs unit has reduced significantly in the past six to 12 months.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

That is not a question for my executive director of finance but for me. The number of drugs seizures is down, while the number of searches is up by 26%. Our activity level has increased. When I took over as Commissioner, my predecessor had introduced divisional drugs units and I ensured the numbers were increased, such that there is now a divisional drugs unit in every division which works closely with the national drugs unit. This is in line with what is happening internationally. My officers engage with the international community day in, day out.

This trend may well be associated with the recession, as there is less money available for consumption in a whole range of disciplines, of which drugs may be a part. We talk to our colleagues all the time and the level of cocaine distribution worldwide has reduced. The level has probably reduced in this country. That there has not been a major seizure in the past few years, similar to the one off the coast of west Cork, does not mean, however, that my officers are not working actively — far from it.

The Deputy's question implies that in some way we are cutting short overtime allocations or money available to the drugs units. On the day I was appointed Commissioner, one of the core aspects I said I would address as Commissioner was the targeting of the drugs business. I went public on the issue and I am as committed to tackling it three years later as I was on day one. Anyone who reads the newspapers knows there are drugs seizures day in, day out. There were a few in the past few days and this morning we charged people with drugs offences.

While major seizures have not been made, the figures tell the story. I hope we have cut off the supply route that international criminals thought was an easy run. They saw Ireland as a transit country, but the seizure made in west Cork put a stop to this. Large seizures with a high value distort the figures, but every one of my members is a drugs officer. They are out searching people, making arrests and seizing drugs. The drugs unit is led by a very active and experienced chief superintendent. I listened on the issue of trends and the trends are significant. I am not saying it is an exact science. In the early 1960s a customs officer in the United States said international law enforcement agencies were only seizing 10% of the product of the drugs trade. I do not know whether he was right, but I question the figure in respect of the work we have undertaken in recent times.

An issue that has arisen recently is that of the head shop phenomenon. There is no doubt it has impacted on the people engaged in the mainstreaming of the illicit drug trade. As the committee is aware, we have recently taken action on this matter, so I do not subscribe fully to the implication in the Deputy's question that we are doing less about drugs. Far from it. We are doing as much and more than we have ever done. I joined and served in this police force at a time when we did not need a drugs squad, but we need it now in every division in the country. It is in this regard that I am deploying my officers.

Of concern to me is that the number of seizures has decreased. Does this reflect a reduction in the number of drugs available — my belief that it does not is based on anecdotal evidence — or less activity on the part of the national drugs squad?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I have answered that question. If anything, the activity level and the number of searches have increased.

Yes, but that is only one element of the work.

Allow the Commissioner to respond.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I will allow the Deputy to draw her own conclusions. This is not an exact science and I will not sit here and state as the Commissioner of An Garda Síochána that there are fewer drugs in the country. My people are making seizures every day. However, there are more searches and fewer detections and seizures. The Deputy can draw her own conclusions from this. It is a difficult area, not an exact science.

In terms of activity, there is more than just searches, for example, surveillance and monitoring.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Absolutely. How does the Deputy think we have been so successful?

I am curious as to why the number of seizures has decreased.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I will not answer that question in terms of whether there are more drugs. I deal with the facts. Our activity levels have increased. That fewer drugs are being seized is an issue on which someone else must draw a conclusion. Our job is prevention in the first instance. That is the supply side and we are a part of the drug strategy. Subsequently, our job is to make detections and to bring people before the courts. Conclusions and analyses are matters for someone else.

These are legitimate questions on performance.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I am trying to answer them as legitimately as I can.

The Commissioner has dealt with them. The Deputy asked a few questions and the answers have been provided. Does she have other items she wishes to cover before I allow Deputy Edward O'Keeffe to contribute?

Yes. I am seeking clarification on the question of the court presenters scheme. The Commissioner stated that other players were involved and that the scheme was generally not popular with people in the courts. I understand it was also unpopular among gardaí. From the Garda point of view, what is the difficulty with the scheme and what is the intention? Will the scheme be abandoned or reworked?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I have referred to this matter, but I will speak to it again. The court presenters scheme works in Dublin. With the exception of Balbriggan where what I call the "country scheme" works, that is, where the superintendent prosecutes, every district in Dublin has sergeants as court presenters and so on. Outside Dublin, superintendents are used. The scheme is working effectively and we do not have the slightest intention of abandoning it. When I promoted sergeants a few weeks ago, I assigned six more sergeants to the court presenters scheme in Dublin. If there is a myth that I am abandoning the scheme, I would like to dispel it, but this still does not mean——

I apologise, as I believed the Commissioner had indicated it to be problematic in some way.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

No. It is important that the Deputy be aware of the facts, as there is clearly confusion. I indicated that the criminal justice system requires gardaí, for example, gardaí who have minded scenes, to go to court to give evidence. We need to move further towards a certificate-based evidence system in which the courts and, in particular, the defence would accept a certification without requiring gardaí to attend in person to give evidence viva voce. I understand the Minister will include provisions in the forthcoming Criminal Justice Bill for more certification.

I am stating the facts and have been glad to clarify the situation for the committee, since the idea that I would abandon the scheme is ludicrous and unfair to me. If anything, I want to reduce the Garda overtime spent in court by 20%. If this provides the Garda with spare capacity, I want to employ it in focused, intelligence-led operations. I have explained this point.

We have covered this item in some detail.

Will the scheme be extended to the whole of the country?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

No. I explained this issue earlier as well. The Nally report recommended that the "country scheme" should stay in place. The DPP is strong on this point also, since the Garda Síochána is doing a good job for the State Prosecution Service through it.

The Commissioner has gone into a great deal of detail.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

As I explained to the Chair, it is the only recommendation of the Chief Inspector that I could not implement because of the current position.

I thank the Commissioner.

I welcome the Garda Commissioner. As a fellow Cork man, I am proud of him and the good job he has been doing. I have a keen interest in rural Ireland and rural Garda stations. The McCarthy report made a number of recommendations on stations. Will the policy change in light of the austerity measures and cutbacks? Rural policing is important to small villages. The Commissioner made a good point about the drug scene, namely, that it is in every corner of Ireland. While my area has good Garda coverage and excellent work is being done, I do not want a great change in rural village stations, as they are effective.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

The Deputy will forgive me if I give him a short answer because I have been asked this question approximately 100 times in the past two years. I have submitted no plans to the Minister to close Garda stations, rural or otherwise.

I welcome the Commissioner's response. A commitment to this committee is important. What is the profile of Garda cars in terms of litres and CCs?

Mr. John Leamy

We will need to get the Deputy the breakdown. We do not have it in terms of car size.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I am glad the Deputy asked the question. We are heading towards having more police spec-type cars, by which I mean the types of car that meet police specifications in other countries. We must move in that direction to try to get better value for money out of our current cars. We have needed to deal with health and safety issues. In many cases, we are using saloon-type family cars. Our intention is to move towards police specification-type vehicles.

Is the Commissioner referring to four wheel drive vehicles, for example, the types of heavy vehicle used by farmers for hauling?

Mr. John Leamy

As the Commissioner stated, the force is primarily driving on normal saloon cars apart from our emergency response unit, which has police-specific vehicles.

They are lovely cars.

Mr. John Leamy

We want to move to a situation in which manufacturers in other situations provide us with police-specific cars. I am referring to suspension, braking systems and other features that are necessary for cars that are on the road 24 hours per day, 365 days per year. A part of the tendering process to which we referred will include a purchase of police-specific cars.

I thank Mr. Leamy. Does the Garda have many derelict buildings that should be disposed of to provide it with funds?

Mr. John Leamy

Recently, we completed a review of our entire accommodation portfolio. We have 703 stations across the country, of which 360 or so are in good to excellent condition. The balance is in need of some type of refurbishment. We do not have derelict Garda stations as such. We have some buildings that are no longer in use as Garda accommodation and are adjacent to Garda stations. We are determining whether they can be incorporated into the stations to provide additional accommodation for the parties within. As the Deputy will appreciate, with the increase of 2,000 in the force during the past number of years and an additional 1,000 civilians, conditions in some Garda stations are pretty cramped. We are looking to see where can we get additional space and some of the buildings that were former residences are being incorporated into Garda stations.

I have two further questions. Is the force still recruiting for the Garda Reserve and how effective is the reserve? The Commissioner might have answered that question before I arrived.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I did.

Is the Commissioner happy with the role being played by the Garda Reserve and would he like it to be expanded?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

We are still recruiting. We have 557 current attested members of the reserve and, as I said, I will be going to Templemore to attest another 100 in the next two weeks.

For the Garda Reserve?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes. We are continuing to increase the Garda Reserve. Some 50 members who joined the reserve have left it to join the Garda Síochána in a full-time capacity.

Are members of the Garda Reserve compensated in terms of payment or is their work voluntary?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

It is voluntary in the main but they get a stipend of €1,000 a year.

I was surprised to note that gardaí were being compensated for policing matches in Croke Park, race meetings and other events. However, I note from the figures and information presented — for which I thank the witnesses — that in 2008, the amount collected was €6.7 million and in 2010 it was €2.3 million. There is a substantial shortfall there to be made up. That is something to be noted if the reserve is to be expanded.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

That is a point I explained earlier. Big events were paid for in 2008 which resulted in an increase in the money collected, as I explained to Deputies Broughan and Shortall.

While the world has become much tougher and harder in light of the current economic difficulties, I would have thought that the amount collected for such duty would have increased rather than decreased in that more gardaí would have been available. Is the decrease due to the members of the reserve being engaged in their own private work or is it due to the economic crisis?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Is the Deputy referring to the amount collected in 2010?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

We are only half way through the year. The figures reflect the amount collected for a half year or less than that.

I have the full figure for the amount collected last year and it was only €4 million and the full figure for the amount collected the year prior to that was €6 million. There is a trend in terms of the amounts collected. Is the decrease due to members of the reserve being engaged in their own private work?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

No, I do not think so. The requests are more or less the same for policing support. Some big payments were made in 2008. I cannot recall when precisely the Ryder Cup took place. I do not know if that event is included in the figures given, but that was one instance where we recovered €1.7 million, which was substantial as a one off payment.

I thank the Commissioner for answering my questions and I wish him well and success in his work. His job is not an easy one.

Before we leave that topic, I note that sanction was received from the Department of Finance to write off a sum of €275,000 in relation to this area and it related primarily to the Eircom league clubs within which there are financial difficulties. Security is still being provided at Eircom league games. The need for such security was, unfortunately, quite prevalent recently when gardaí had to take action when there was trouble during a game. Will the force continue to provide such policing to Eircom league clubs at a much greatly reduced cost or at zero cost?

Mr. Michael Culhane

As the Commissioner mentioned, we are developing a non-public duty policy. The Eircom league, or, as they were formally known, the Eircom league clubs, is not in the strongest financial position. The first concern for us, as an organisation, is to ensure the safety and security of people attending matches. We are in negotiations directly with the clubs to secure a reasonable recovery percentage of the cost of providing security. It is essentially a question then of having face to face negotiations with the clubs to secure a percentage recovery of the cost of policing the event.

What about the FAI?

Mr. Michael Culhane

We had discussions——

Individual clubs are experiencing considerable financial difficulty. I do not want to dwell on this point but has the Garda Síochána spoken to the FAI on this issue?

Mr. Michael Culhane

We have spoken to the FAI and this issue is part of our ongoing negotiations. We have had direct negotiations with the general secretary or with another person whose name will not come to my mind.

Mr. Delaney.

Mr. Michael Culhane

Yes, Mr. Delaney. We have had direct negotiations with Mr. Delaney on this subject.

Before I call Deputy Broughan, I wish to deal with one further issue. The Commissioner mentioned in regard to drug seizures — I am not going back over that point — the area of head shops, which we would all agree have been a scourge on the country. Legislation to deal with them is to be introduced in this session. I am not asking the Commissioner to comment specifically on the legislation, which I understand will be published this Friday. It will provide strong provisions for the Garda to seek closure orders. How prepared is the force to move in this respect on enactment of the legislation? Does the Commissioner have any other comments that are relevant in respect of the head shops? Every community in the country has been affected by them. I would like major priority to be given to this issue the second this Bill is enacted.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

In regard to preparation for the forthcoming Bill, the morning after the increase in the number of banned substances, we put in place a national operation, under the control of the detective chief superintendent in charge of the Garda national drug unit, Operation Kingfisher. I did not view them but, with the consent of the owners and parties, we took possession of up to 3 or 4 tonnes of substances. Therefore, I have no doubt that we will be well in a position to go to court. I understand that what is envisaged in the legislation is a type of court order. I have not gone through the Bill in detail with the Minister but I understand that what is envisaged in it is a court order on a civil standard of proof. I welcome that type of legislation. We will certainly put our best foot forward to make it work.

In addition to the head shops and the problems they cause, significant public order issues have arisen in the vicinity of them and that has been challenging. Some of my chief superintendents have been very innovative in dealing with these issues. They have served orders on head shops without any statutory support and have endeavoured to use common sense policing. I am on record many times as having said that I have great concern about head shops. This brings me back to the question Deputy Shortall asked me. I have no doubt that the head shop phenomenon has impacted on the level of hard drugs seized in the past 12 months. I will not go down the road of saying the level of drugs in that respect because as the Deputy rightly pointed out our statistics can only relate to the actual seizures. We use intelligence, information and so on to try to determine what else is out there. Where there is information we put an operation in place to try to detect that. I want to emphasise the fact that our searches and focus on drugs from the day I was appointed Commissioner is one of the top priorities, if not the top priority.

Does the Commissioner envisage that once the legislation is enacted that action will be taken immediately?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes.

I have two brief questions for the Commissioner, one on the criminal gangs and the other on the traffic corps. On the question of gangland killings, it is a matter of grave concern to our constituents that there has been such a significant number of unsolved murders during the past decade or so. We are approaching the anniversary of the passing of the criminal justice Bill and the segment of the legislation that provides that gangland leaders can be tried in a non-jury court was referred to in the Dáil this morning. A year has passed since this legislation was introduced. I commend the Commissioner on the achievement of breaking up a major gang based in Spain, which seemed to be deeply affecting our country. Why have we not seen a number of prosecutions of gangland figures during the past year? One reads in the Evening Herald or The Star of such people who seem to be walking the streets with impunity. Why have they not been prosecuted and, if necessary, under this legislation?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I hope the Deputy will not take this as a facetious comment but I cannot rely on articles in the Evening Herald as evidence for the Director of Public Prosecutions. We must get the evidence and that is what we have been doing since the legislation was enacted last year. At the time I said I supported that legislation. There are two cases now before the courts. In the last few months the Director of Public Prosecutions has decided to prosecute for the core offences of participation in and directing gangland activity. In total, we have submitted 12 files on 12 different gangs to the Director of Public Prosecutions. The director must make his decisions on those and I am in his hands in that regard. However, we are working closely with him to ensure we are getting the proofs that are necessary for the legislation to work.

Contrary to what one might suggest, we have been working hard on that from the moment the legislation was enacted. Of course, there are constraints. Our Constitution does not make something an offence before legislation is enacted, so we have had to work from the time the legislation was enacted. We have submitted 12 files, there are prosecutions in place in two cases and I look forward to many more cases going before the courts. At the end of the day, however, I must rely on the Director of Public Prosecutions in terms of directing where there should be a charge.

We introduced the legislation because it was perceived, correctly, that these gangs are a threat to the State and to society.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

I have gone on the record several times in saying that. It has been a significant challenge for An Garda Síochána.

According to some sources, some people left the State this time last year because of the enactment of the legislation. Was there a perception in the Garda that this was the case?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

People first left the State back in the mid-1990s when the Criminal Assets Bureau came on stream. I was the first chief superintendent in charge of the Criminal Assets Bureau. We are still seeing the legacy of that because people went to other countries to set up their nefarious activities, particularly importing drugs into this country. That legacy is still there.

The bottom line for us is that we welcome the legislation. We are making it work from an investigative point of view and I look forward to seeing what happens in the courts. We will put our best foot forward and go to court. It will be a matter for the court to decide. If there are other proofs to be obtained or other aspects of evidence to be gathered, we seize that evidence available to us. However, we must follow and comply with the legislation and that is what we are doing.

The appalling litany of murders is ongoing, unfortunately. In my constituency, there were six or seven of those appalling murders in a six month period. Obviously, each of those case files is still open——

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Very much so, and they are being reviewed from time to time. The Deputy will know that we set up a cold case review team in the last couple of years. There has been a number of gangland related gun murders which have been a significant challenge for us. Certainly the resources have been applied to those investigations. We have had difficulties in achieving a high success rate in terms of convictions but I can guarantee that no case is closed and there is the necessary review. I have a twice yearly meeting with the chief superintendents and one of the first things on the agenda is to ensure that they are looking at the cases that are getting cold. There are many people, including the relations of the deceased, who are hurting, day in and day out. We must serve the needs of those people particularly with regard to feedback. I emphasise to my people that they must talk to those people and provide them with feedback on how the investigation is going. That is key because there will be occasions, and I must be realistic, when we cannot get somebody before the courts but we must ensure the victims' hurt is minimised as far as possible.

I have a brief question on the traffic corps. We have had a few bad months. Obviously, tremendous work has been done by the traffic corps, the Garda Commissioner, the Garda Síochána and the Road Safety Authority in trying to change the culture. Yesterday, a committee spent four or five hours debating the Road Traffic Bill 2009 in this room before it reaches its Final Stage in the Dáil. It has been contended that one of the reasons for this upsurge in the number of deaths and casualties — I believe last April was nearly as bad as April 2009 and April 2008 — is the cutbacks in the Garda Síochána. I have referred to the budgetary cuts in overtime and so forth. There is a perception, and our colleagues in the media have highlighted it, that the incidence of random checks for breathalysing and so forth to which we had become accustomed has not been as prevalent in this calendar year and perhaps even from late autumn last year. Is this perception correct? Have there been cutbacks in the number of checkpoints and the general invigilation of drink driving, speeding and so forth? I note Superintendent O'Donohoe mentioned to the recent conference on road safety that hopefully in October we will have the arrival, at last, of the safety cameras. There is a perception that there is not enough Garda manpower at present to implement the road safety strategy effectively.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

In the last five years we have made a huge commitment to road safety. We have increased the strength of the traffic corps from 500 to 1,200. It is just under 1,200 at present because with the retirements last year I lost a number of people from the traffic corps as well as from other policing areas. Last year the numbers were down 59 on the previous year, in the year before they were down 38 on the previous year and in the year before that it was 30 odd, so in the last three years they are down 100. We have had the lowest number on record for the last number of years. This morning it was down 14. I am disappointed with the 14 because it was down 26 a few weeks ago and we have had a particularly bad period in recent times. The traffic corps is out there doing its job. It is making fewer detections for drink driving. Like the drugs issues we were discussing earlier, that is a significant story as well. I will let the Deputy draw his own conclusions from that.

That is the key issue.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

We are making fewer detections. The speed cameras should at last come on stream by October. That will be significant as well. The commitment is huge with regard to road deaths and collisions. There were 55,285 mandatory alcohol test, MAT, checkpoints conducted in 2009. While that was down somewhat from 2008, it is still a significant amount of Garda activity in that area.

Does the Garda Commissioner have the figure for 2008?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

Yes, it was 79,423.

Does the witness have the figure for this year to date?

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

No.

It was a bit of a decline. I recall the Garda Commissioner or one of his colleagues telling me previously that when the force is under intense pressure it is difficult to manage the traffic issues, which are obviously critical as well.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy

It is a little like community policing. What I have tried to do, and mainly achieved, is to ensure that traffic corps personnel are engaged full-time in roads policing. I use that title because it is not just applied to traffic. Many criminals use the roads so they are engaged in roads policing. In community policing, I have endeavoured to keep the people who are designated community police officers on community policing. That is the best way to go. The traffic corps numbers are there. The fact that they are not making as many detections is another issue. I would hope that the reasonable conclusion to draw is that we are working on the culture change and that the culture is changing. The vintners make representations to me from time to time as well. There are issues for many people in this regard but the bottom line for us is that one death is one too many. We are just part of the bigger machine that has achieved reductions in the number of road deaths in the last three years and which will continue this year. There are still too many people killed on our roads and, regrettably, many of the deaths this year have been caused by single vehicle accidents, particularly late at night. We analyse the trends and endeavour to get our people out on the roads at the times those accidents take place.

I will take some closing remarks from Mr. Buckley.

Mr. John Buckley

Like the Commissioner I am a realist and I recognise that the Garda faces a considerable challenge in trying to bring down the ratios to something like 1:5 or whatever is achievable. To do that within the employment control framework for the wider justice Vote will be quite a challenge. Clearly we have to welcome the fact that it is taking initiatives to size, plan and implement the civilianisation programme in these circumstances.

I thank Mr. Buckley. Is it agreed the committee notes Vote 20 — Garda Síochána and disposes of chapter 15 — Garda civilianisation? Agreed. I thank the Commissioner and all our witnesses for their attendance. It has been very useful for the committee and hopefully for the witnesses. We wish the Commissioner and all those in the force all the best for the coming year.

Mr. Fachtna Murphy: That is appreciated, Vice Chairman.

The witnesses withdrew.

The committee adjourned at 1 p.m. until 10 a.m. on Thursday, 8 July 2010.
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