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COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS debate -
Thursday, 15 Dec 2011

Business of Committee.

Are the minutes of the meeting of 8 December 2011 agreed? Agreed. If there are no matters arising, I will move on.

The next item is correspondence received since our previous meeting. Correspondence dated 7 December 2011 was received from Mr. Brendan Kennedy, who is the chief executive of the Pensions Board. The correspondence provides information that had been requested by the committee at our meeting of 17 November 2011. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence dated 6 December 2011 was received from Mr. Aidan Carrigan, who is an assistant secretary in the financial services division of the Department of Finance. The correspondence forwards to us a reply that was sent to Concerned Irish Citizens regarding correspondence previously considered by the committee with regard to Quinn Insurance. It is to be noted.

Correspondence was received on 7 December 2011 from Mr. Gregory Craig, who is a former director of corporate affairs in FÁS. The correspondence relates to the meeting of this committee on 1 December 2011. It is to be noted.

Correspondence dated 7 December 2011 was received from Dr. Orlaigh Quinn, who is an assistant secretary in the Department of Social Protection. The correspondence provides information that was requested by the committee at our meeting of 17 November 2011. It is to be noted.

Correspondence dated 8 December 2011 was received from Dr. Gerard Moyne, who is a life member of the Irish Red Cross Society. The correspondence relates to the society and is to be noted. It is to be forwarded to the Department of Defence and the Irish Red Cross for information. The committee will resume its examination of Chapter 32 - Financial Control of the Irish Red Cross - on 19 January 2012. Any issues relating to the correspondence can be raised at that meeting.

Correspondence dated 8 December 2011 was received from Mr. Ray Mitchell, who is the head of parliamentary affairs of the Health Service Executive. The correspondence forwards a joint analysis of the totality of funding for the SKILL and Partnership programme, as well as briefing material for the meeting of 15 December 2011. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence was received on 9 December 2011 from Ms Geraldine Tallon, who is the Secretary General of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. The correspondence relates to the Local Authority National Partnership Advisory Group. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence was received on 12 December 2011 from Mr. Ray Mitchell, who is the head of parliamentary affairs of the Health Service Executive. The correspondence forwards reports that are relevant to the committee's consideration of the Skills programme at today's meeting. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence dated 12 December 2011 was received from Mr. Noel Wardick, who is the former head of the international department of the Irish Red Cross. The correspondence relates to the call by Transparency International for an independent investigation into the Irish Red Cross. It is to be noted and published. The matters highlighted in this correspondence can be raised with the Accounting Officer at the committee's meeting of 19 January 2012.

Correspondence dated 9 December 2011 was received from Mr. Jim Breslin, who is the Secretary General of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs. The correspondence provides information requested by the committee at its meeting of 24 November 2011. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence dated 13 December 2011 was received from Mr. Michael Scanlan, who is the Secretary General of the Department of Health. The correspondence is Mr. Scanlan's opening statement. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence dated 13 December 2011 was received from Mr. Ray Mitchell, who is the head of parliamentary affairs of the Health Service Executive. The correspondence forwards a note that was previously requested by the committee and correspondence that has been received by the Irish Fire and Emergency Services Association regarding the Dublin Fire Brigade ambulance service. It is to be noted and published. A copy of the correspondence is to be issued to the original complainants, Mr. Tony McDonnell and Mr. John Kidd.

Correspondence was received on 13 December 2011 from Ms Geraldine Tallon, who is the Secretary General of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. The correspondence is her opening statement. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence was received on 13 December 2011 from Mr. Cathal Magee, who is the chief executive officer of the Health Service Executive. The correspondence is Mr. Magee's opening statement. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence dated 13 December 2011 was received from Mr. John Moriarty of Dublin Waterworld Limited. The correspondence relates to the National Aquatic Centre and the Valuation Office. It is to be noted. A copy of this correspondence is to be forwarded to the Valuation Office and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport for information. The committee will revisit Chapter 31 - National Sports Campus - at its meeting on 16 February 2012.

Correspondence dated 13 December 2011 was received from Mr. Brendan McDonagh, who is the chief executive of the National Asset Management Agency. The correspondence provides additional information that was requested by the committee at its meeting of 26 October last. It is to be noted and published.

Correspondence dated 5 December 2011 was received from Ms Rosemary Johnston, who is the acting chief executive officer of County Longford VEC, and Councillor Alan Mitchell, who is the chairperson of the VEC. The correspondence relates to the locations of the headquarters of VECs that are merging. It is to be noted and published. The correspondence is to be forwarded to the Accounting Officer of the Department of Education and Skills for a note on the issues raised. As Deputy Deasy raised this matter at a previous meeting, he might be interested in it. He is not listening.

Correspondence dated 8 December 2011 was received from Mr. Donal Duffy, who is the assistant secretary general of the Irish Hospital Consultants Association. The correspondence relates to the annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. It is to be noted and published. The correspondence, which is to be forwarded to the HSE for a note on the matters raised, came directly to me. It takes issue with some of the matters we discussed at one of our meetings. It has been suggested that when we discuss these matters with the HSE in the future, the lead speakers might meet representatives of the Irish Hospital Consultants Association prior to the meeting to be informed on the issues being raised.

Does this relate to the private mix that we discussed at a previous meeting?

What is the context?

It relates to the last time we discussed this.

Clerk to the Committee

The consultants' contract will become a big issue once more. The question of how one measures compliance will arise again. It will be of relevance to our work programme when the HSE comes to one of our meetings in the new year. The Irish Hospital Consultants Association, which is involved in a dispute, has asked to brief the committee. A good way around it might be for the two lead speakers who will question the HSE on the consultants' contract to have a meeting with the association. That might enable them to bring some issues to the table. That is all we are trying to do.

Correspondence dated 9 December 2011 was received from Deputy Anne Ferris. The correspondence relates to Goal. It is to be noted and published. The correspondence is to be forwarded to the Accounting Officer of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and a copy of the audit report is to be requested. Representatives of the Department are scheduled to appear before the committee after Easter. We will examine the audit report at that meeting.

The reports, statements and accounts that have been received since our meeting of 8 December are listed. They range from Nos. 4.1 to 4.7. They are to be noted. We will defer notation of the State Examinations Commission because we can examine issues relating to its accounts at our meeting on 9 February 2012. Representatives of the VECs and others will come before us in the new year. If members have an interest in any other accounts that appear here, or would like a meeting to be scheduled around a group of accounts, we should do that. The accounts could relate to the county enterprise boards, for example.

I ask Members to note the work programme, which is on the screen. Do they have any comments on it?

Who will come in when representatives of the Irish Red Cross come before the committee in January? I understand the Department of Defence will be represented.

The Accounting Officer, chairman and chief executive of the Irish Red Cross will be present.

Will the Department of Defence be represented?

Yes. The Accounting Officer will be here. Correspondence on this matter has been received from other individuals. We will get a package together for that meeting. Do members wish to raise any other business?

I would like to ask the Comptroller and Auditor General about the 2011 report. A chapter of the 2010 report was devoted to procurement.

Mr. John Buckley

Yes.

Can the Comptroller and Auditor General stray into circular 10/10, which relates to public procurement? Can he analyse whether the circular is leading to good public procurement?

Mr. John Buckley

We intend to do that. We are trying to build the chapter in the procurement area gradually. The Deputy will notice that it is in there every year.

Mr. John Buckley

Next year, we will have to up the ante a little. The Deputy will have noticed that this year's chapter contained some feedback about what is happening on the ground. We will go a stage further next year by looking at this general area.

The feedback we are getting from the SME sector is that procurement is cumbersome. Perhaps the issue of open tender versus restricted tender could be examined to make the system more efficient. Will the Comptroller and Auditor General do so?

Mr. John Buckley

On balance, maybe I should have a chat with the Deputy about his concerns because we have to distinguish between implementing the rules and changing them.

I am happy to do that.

The agenda for Thursday, 19 January 2012 is to discuss the Houses of the Oireachtas Annual Report 2012 at 10.30 a.m. and to resume our discussion of Chapter 32, Financial Control in the Irish Red Cross, at 12 noon. Is that agreed? Agreed.

2009 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts

Chapter 37 - SKILL Programme (Resumed)

2010 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts

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