The committee is in public session. Apologies have been received from Deputy Alan Farrell. The first item on the agenda is the minutes of the meeting of 21 September last. Are the minutes agreed to? Agreed. Are there any matters arising from the minutes?
Business of Committee
I would like to note one matter. Maybe it is not strictly a matter arising, but it is a matter that arises. I refer to the slate of witnesses that has been agreed so far for the hearings we are going to have. Obviously, we will add to that we as proceed. The question of securing documents remains an ongoing process.
I am not having a discussion on this. The clerk has circulated a list of documents he believes we will require.
Yes, I have that.
People have been asked to add anything they wish to that. I decided to wait until after today's meeting before requesting documentation from various State agencies because I did not want to be in communication with them in advance.
That is absolutely fair enough. I ask for this committee to be given an opportunity to pause for reflection after today's meeting.
Fine.
We should reflect on matters that will arise-----
Our work programme.
-----and individuals and papers that we will seek.
It is not locked down.
That is precisely what I am trying to establish.
We have agreed the first few weeks only.
We can review it after today.
We will.
I thank the Chair.
I would like to raise a separate issue.
Does it arise from the minutes?
Yes. It relates to this meeting and a discussion that flows from our last meeting. The issue is whether any members of this committee have received correspondence or calls from NAMA in relation to briefings. There was some reporting to that effect. Did any member of this committee-----
The Deputy wants to know whether any member had a briefing.
I want to know whether any member was offered a briefing by NAMA.
I have made it publicly clear that during August I had three, four or five phone calls-----
I am asking about members other than the Chair.
-----with the recognised official-----
I had a phone call.
I will just complete what I have to say. I spoke to the recognised official in NAMA who would deal with us. Those calls were about timing. I was trying to agree a date. I did not even know whether the report would be published. We had a bit of toing and froing. He wanted to know whether we wanted any information. I said we would wait until the meeting. I did not have any discussion other than discussions on what I would call logistical matters.
Was the Chair offered a briefing?
I was asked whether we wanted to have a meeting. I said there was no need for a meeting. The meeting did not specify anything.
At least one other member was offered a briefing. I refer to an Teachta Kelly. Is that right?
I have made that quite public. I referred the person who made that offer to the Chair.
Nobody else received such an offer.
I think-----
Deputy Kelly is the Vice Chairman of the committee. Perhaps that was the reason. I might have been away or something.
I referred the person in question to the Chair. I did not hear anything back.
Was NAMA offering this meeting to everybody or just to certain individuals?
I took it that I was being contacted as the Chairman of the committee because I was trying to arrange meetings, secure the availability of witnesses and organise our timetable. I took it that the Chairman was being contacted about how the committee was going to proceed. I took three or four phone calls and then the secretariat eventually wrapped all the details up. I did not see any issue. I thought I was being contacted as normal as the Chair. I was working in a vacuum because I did not know whether the report would be out. It required a bit of toing and froing. That is all. We will move on. I do not think there is any issue here. There are no matters arising from the minutes. The next item is routine correspondence.
I just want to say we are joined today by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who is a permanent witness to the committee. He is accompanied by three officials from his office: Mr. Andy Harkness, who is the secretary and director of audit; Mr. John Riordan, who is a deputy director; and Mr. Tom Malone, who is an assistant principal. I mention that by way of information. They will be speaking shortly.
We are completing our routine correspondence item. Correspondence items 80A (i) to (viii) are briefing documents from NAMA in relation to today's meeting.
Is it agreed to note those? Agreed. The next item is correspondence 81A and 82A, opening statements from Mr. Brendan McDonagh, chief executive officer of NAMA, and Mr. Frank Daly, chairman of NAMA. Is it agreed to note them? Agreed.
The next item is correspondence 48B, correspondence from Professor Brian Norton, president of Dublin Institute of Technology, providing information on non-competitive procurement. This was deferred from last week. I suggest we note it. It is a document of 100 pages and members are welcome to read it. It can be raised in any forum.
The next item is correspondence 70B, a follow-up letter to our meeting on 21 July from Mr. Conor O'Kelly of the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA, providing information on the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund, primary care centres and a breakdown of legal costs incurred in the State Claims Agency. Is it agreed to note it? Agreed. People can take that up themselves.
I raised issues when the presentation was made. The witnesses stated they would come back on the issues of climate change and investment policy in that regard. Where is that? Will we get an opportunity to look at it?
The Deputy may read the correspondence and she can raise the issue again the next day if it is not adequate.
Great. Thank you very much.
The next item is correspondence 71B, correspondence from Mr. Robert Watt, Secretary General at the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, providing a note in respect of a look-back audit on all public private partnerships since 2003. A report on the latter is also included. Is it agreed to note this? Agreed. If people want to raise it again in future, they may do so.
The next item is correspondence 76B, correspondence from Mr. Robert Watt providing a follow-up on the wards of courts fund. There is a review of the fund’s performance between 2007 and 2009 and the committee will receive a copy. I hope that will be during October. Is it agreed to note the item? Agreed. We look forward to receiving that report. Related correspondence is 14B. Is it agreed that the clerk will sent a copy of the correspondence to interested individuals who have written to the committee on the topic since the committee has been in place? Agreed. I look forward to receiving the report in October, when we will discuss it again.
The next item is correspondence 77B, a letter from Inland Fisheries Ireland providing an information note setting out the reasons for the non-collection of rateable debts. It appears that a significant part of the reason for non-collection of debts is because the valuation of fisheries is outdated and was last carried out at the turn of the 1900s. I propose that we write to the Valuation Office to be kept abreast of any future revaluation of fisheries assets. Likewise, I propose we write to the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment seeking to be kept abreast of any proposed changes in legislation on this issue. Is that agreed? Agreed. If people wish to raise the matter again, they are free to do so.
We have an e-mail from Deputy Josepha Madigan regarding the Olympic Council of Ireland. Does she wish to withdraw it?
It was an e-mail sent during the summer. We will note it and move on.
Correspondence 72C is a letter from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills on the lateness in the laying of audited accounts of An Chéim, a body providing shared services to institutes of technology, which is being wound down. That is why we are late receiving the accounts. We have taken the step to write to the parent Departments of all bodies that have not had accounts laid before the Houses within the required timescale. Is it agreed to note that? Agreed.
The next item is a letter from Mr. Gerard O'Leary, director of the office of environmental enforcement at the Environmental Protection Agency. Mr O'Leary provides an update on a matter raised by an individual relating to dumping on his land in County Meath. I propose we forward a copy of this correspondence to the individual in question. Is this agreed? Agreed. Correspondence 78C is a letter from an individual on the difficulties with Roscommon County Council regarding two adjacent grave spaces and planning permission. As this has to do with a local authority, it does not fall within the remit of the committee. I propose that we write to the individual suggesting that she contact the county manager or chief executive officer directly or appeal to the Ombudsman if she is not happy with the decision of the council. The person may also check whether it is a planning issue with An Bord Pleanála. As the communication seems to point to customer service concerns, I propose we direct her in that matter. Is this agreed? Agreed.
The next item on the agenda relates to statements and accounts received since our last meeting. They are on the schedule and we can just note each of them. They are the Health Information and Quality Authority 2015 clear audit report, the Credit Institutions Resolution Fund clear audit report, the Labour Relations Commission clear audit report up to 30 September 2015, the Irish Auditing and Accounting Supervisory Authority clear audit report, the Equality Authority clear audit report, the Human Rights Commission clear audit report and the Church of Ireland College of Education teacher training college report. Attention is drawn in that report to the deferred pension funding, which is normal for third level colleges. It is a standard reference in the audit report for that issue.
The next report relates to An Chéim Computer Services Limited, with the accounts covering 2011 to 2014, inclusive, and to August 2015. That organisation is now being wound down, leading to a delay. They were clear audit reports but some of them were very late coming. There is also the audit report for St. James's Hospital board. There is a note from the Comptroller and Auditor General indicating that all the testing of purchases in 2015 found that 1.6% of the expenditure examined related to goods and services where previous contracts had expired and had not subsequently been put to tender. Overall expenditure in such goods and services in 2015 amounted to €903,000. Here we go again. It is a common theme and it is something we will return to on another day. The last set of accounts laid since the last meeting relates to the local loans fund relating to the making of loans to local authorities. Again, it is a clear audit report. We note all those and if a member has a query about them, he or she is free to look up the accounts and raise any matter at a subsequent meeting.
A copy of our work programme has been circulated to members. This includes a series of planned extra dates in order to allow us to examine the Comptroller and Auditor General's report on Project Eagle more fully. Some of these are not yet confirmed. Most of these extra days will be on a Tuesday morning and where possible will begin a little later in order to facilitate members travelling to Dublin. These may be scheduled for 9.30 a.m. or 10 a.m. Does anybody wish to comment on the work programme? It is a draft and we can discuss it at the end of the meeting to see where we are going with possible dates. We have meetings scheduled in any event with representatives of the Department of Social Protection. We will have our normal Thursday meetings as well. The Minister for Finance will be before us next Thursday and after that we will have the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Social Protection.
I might ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to comment on his annual report with respect to the 2015 audits, as it would normally be issued at this time.
Mr. Seamus McCarthy
Yes, it is due for publication tomorrow with the appropriation accounts for all Votes.
The annual document from the Comptroller and Auditor General, which I am sure will highlight some interesting facts across all Departments, will come tomorrow. We will wait for that and people will want to discuss it as well. I also wish to point out that the secretariat is in the process of creating a folder on the documents database for material on Project Eagle. It was put up in the past few days and I have had a quick look at it. There are 40 or 50 documents in it already, amounting to more than 1,000 pages of material if people choose to read it all. We will add to that database every week and people may access it through the Oireachtas network, printing whatever interests them.