Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 23 Aug 1921

Vol. S No. 5

STATEMENT BY PRESIDENT

THE PRESIDENT:

The next items on the agenda are the election of President and the formation of a new Ministry. Now we were anxious to have those elections in public rather than in private and I think on the whole it was better it should be so. The nominees could be consulted in advance. The advantage lies now in publicity and I think we should leave to the public session the work of election. I therefore take this opportunity of making a statement to the Dáil which I could not make in public. I believe that it is likely that I would again be nominated for Presidency at the public session on Friday. I have explained to you definitely my position which is always this that I have one allegiance only to the people of Ireland and that is to do the best we can for the people of Ireland as we conceive it. If you propose me I want you all to understand that you propose me understanding that that will be my attitude; that any questions that we have to discuss that I will discuss them from the point of view absolutely of what I consider the people of Ireland want and what I consider is best from their point of view.

I would take office therefore only on that understanding to bring our proposal before you constitutionally and as one who was ready to stand on a principle of the Cabinet on the policy brought forward and to fall on it also.

I would not like therefore that anyone should propose me for election as President who would think I had my mind definitely made up on any situation that may arise. I keep myself free to consider each question as it arises. I never bind myself in any other way. I do not think it possible for anyone to do so if in advance he binds himself to one point of view. I therefore want you to know that, as I think this is the proper place to say it to you. In office up to the present I have done my best on that understanding and it is on that understanding I will continue.

The only thing that would be possible then, if you would wish in any way to discuss the matter I have raised I am willing that it should be discussed. But if you have no desire to go any further in the matter, and the question of election in private, I think it would be better to have it in public. Of course if the President is elected in public it is right he should nominate the Ministers in public and that they should be ratified in public.

The only other business is the Ministerial motions. So the only thing, if you don't wish to pursue the matter I have raised in connection with motion for election of President, I would propose the adjournment.

G. GAVAN DUFFY

asked were they going to meet again in private.

THE MINISTER FOR HOME AFFAIRS

said he would like to draw attention to the fact that he intended to bring in two important motions. One in connection with the decentralization proposal made a few days ago. It would not exactly be a ministerial proposal but it would be from the sub-committee of the whole House. There could be a general discussion on it and they could see if it could be improved.

The second motion was more or less in the nature of a Defence of the Realm Act and it would be for the House to decide whether it would be necessary or not. He thought it well to give the House notice of these. They could not be discussed before Thursday and the draft proposals would be in their hand to-morrow if they called here at 3.30 p.m.

DR. FERRAN

said in view of the President's statement and in view of the statements made here yesterday he should confess it seemed something like a bombshell to the members from the North. He thought it desirable that the House should have an opportunity of presenting its views to the Ministry upon the situation and its obligations. They all realised the extremely difficult position, but he was perfectly certain it was desirable they should know how they stood as members of the Dáil. It would be better to have as frank and as free a discussion as they could upon the general situation at a very early date.

THE PRESIDENT:

I do not know it would serve any particular good purpose. Everybody understands the situation. It is a question of what recommendations we would have to make to this House as Ministers. Of course it is possible we may have to make no recommendations but the one. But what I want to be understood in my own regard was that I shall act as President simply as the head of a government of any country would act.

That I would act as head of an established government would act and that I can act in no other way. I cannot accept the responsibilities of the office if it is not understood that I can act as the head of any government in any country would act. Those who have the fortunes of the country in their hands for the moment have taken certain obligations on themselves to look after the public interests to the best of their ability. If their view at any particular moment does not commend itself to the House they are turned out of office and a new Ministry appointed. You can do that without going to the country. You are fortunate in that respect. You can put in another Ministry who would take responsibility for the obligations you want to put on them. You will have to have a Ministry that fully believes absolutely that the policy which it commends is the policy which it thinks best for the nation it represents. It is impossible to fulfil duty properly if they were not themselves fully convinced that the line of action they were taking is the best line of action. That will be and must be.

In other words I am no longer to be looked on as a party leader. I am representing the nation and I shall represent the whole nation if I am elected to office and I shall not be bound by any section whatever of the nation. I shall act for the best interests of the nation and our proposals will be properly put before you. You will have your right to turn down these proposals if they do not suit you and to put in another Ministry to carry out your obligations.

I am only doing that in case the present moment brings up anything of the kind. But I am doing it because I think it is right and I want to look into the future as far as I can. I am not looking into the immediate future, but the future may develop things and it may be necessary for us as the government of the country to make proposals which may not possibly commend themselves to the whole House. In critical times a position may arise in which we may not be unanimous and I want it understood if this House devolves the position of President on me my attitude will be that of the head of any government in a country who will have to do the best for the country.

J.J. WALSH

pointed out that any division at present would be disastrous to the country. The President said in the event of negotiations materialising and in the event of certain proposals put forward by his Cabinet he said this House could turn out the Ministry.

He feared in the present situation such an action would be capable of grave misrepresentation. He asked the President today to give him an opportunity of mentioning one matter which was agitating the minds of some of the members. Ordinary members like himself were entitled to form their own opinions, and on that point he always felt satisfied he was here to express his opinions.

He asked the President did he understand him to say yesterday that in the event of peace negotiations that he (the President), and he supposed he was talking for the collective opinion of the Cabinet, is prepared to consider such a proposal as would amount to a voting out of any county or part of a province of this country from the free state. There were diverse opinions regarding the interpretation of the President's answer.

THE PRESIDENT:

What I should like to answer to all such questions is this, that I do not feel myself bound not to consider anything. I feel myself open to consider everything that comes the way and it is that I do not want to be fettered in any way and I will not accept this office if you fetter me in any way whatever. Further than that I will not consider anything. I will take the situation as anyone who is appointed to do—see what is the best and then come to you with the best recommendations we can make.

Now I know quite well what an awkward thing it would be to turn out a Ministry at such a time. I realise that, but there is no other way in which we can handle the situation. Some of us are quite ready to be sacrificed if this has to be done.

I cannot accept office except on the understanding that no road is barred, that we shall be free to consider every method. For example, the question of voting out of counties or provinces. That would be a way, if that came up, a way in which a certain result could be obtained. I would be ready to consider that. We should be able to give our reasons. If we are not able to stand on these proposals by the reasons we give, then turn us out. But we must be free to consider and above suspicion to deal with every situation that arises.

Now as regards plenipotentiaries if Lloyd George's reply is not going to mean a termination of the Truce, and that they say we are ready to meet you, I will ask you to appoint plenipotentiaries for negotiating peace.

I prefer to say this in private—I do not want and will not be a member of the particular body that would negotiate peace. I do not [want] to be one of the plenipotentiaries. The one chief reason I had in going myself to these preliminary negotiations I saw it gave me a definite opportunity to bring Ireland's case before the world.

I can stay at home where I will be more valuable and it will be quite evident to the public the reason I do not want to be one of them is that the duties at home require my attention. If negotiations take place and if I can have my way in that respect, it will be that others, members of this House, would be the body who would be deputed by this House to negotiate peace. That is the position before you, that you will have plenipotentiaries appointed and they would go as plenipotentiaries on the basis of a certain principle to negotiate peace. They would come back, be in touch with the Cabinet and their proposals would be brought before this House finally. The Minister [recte Ministry] then would have a policy and the Ministry would take a definite attitude before the House in respect to them.

It is obvious that whenever there are negotiations, unless you are able to dictate terms you will have differences. Therefore it is obvious you will have sharp differences. The policy of the Ministry will be that which they consider would be best for the country. The Ministry itself may not be able to agree and in such a case the majority would rule. Those who would disagree with me would resign. But I am looking at the worst possible thing that could happen, that if the plenipotentiaries go to negotiate a treaty or a peace, seeing that we are not in the position that we can dictate the terms, we will, therefore, have proposals brought back which cannot satisfy everybody, and will not, and my position is that when such a time comes I will be in a position, having discussed the matter with the Cabinet, to come forward with such proposals as we think wise and right. It will be then for you either to accept the recommendations of the Ministry or reject them. If you reject them you then elect a new Ministry. You would then be creating a definite active opposition.

I anticipate there will be differences of opinion in that case and I anticipate there is a possibility of non-agreement. Therefore I want you to understand I have not my mind made up as to anything. I have kept my mind in a fluid state as long as I am in a responsible position to the country and it is only on that basis that I can accept office.

I propose now we adjourn till Thursday. The Ministry have a certain amount of work to do. We will have to finish all the private matter on Thursday.

P. Ó MAILLE

said it would be right for the arrangements committee to meet.

THE PRESIDENT

said it should meet to-morrow and make arrangements for the public session on Friday. Before the House adjourned he said he would like to explain that the statements he had to make like this created a lot of misgivings, but he was simply taking ordinary precautions and he wanted to indicate that in voting for him they were voting for a person who is going to act as the head of a government fully established and fully recognised would act and in no sense whatever as a party leader.

Motion for adjournment till Thursday at 11 a.m. then put and carried.

D'éirigh an Dáil ar 6 p.m.