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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 11 Oct 1922

Vol. 1 No. 21

THE DÁIL IN COMMITTEE.

The Dáil then went into Committee on the Constitution of Saorstát Eireann Bill.

MINISTER for HOME AFFAIRS (Mr. K. O'Higgins)

An amendment will be moved to Article 75, but as it is necessary to move it formally I will read that Article.

"Every existing Officer of the Provisional Government who has been transferred to that Government from the British Government, and every existing Officer of the British Government who, at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution, is engaged or employed in the administration of public services which on that date become public services of the Irish Free State/ Saorstát Eireann (except those whose services have been lent by the British Government to the Provisional Government) shall on that date be transferred to and become an Officer of the Irish Free State/Saorstát Eireann and shall hold office by a tenure corresponding to his previous tenure, and shall be entitled to the benefit of Article 10 of the Scheduled Treaty."

There will be a Governmental amendment moved to that Article.

Mr. E. DUGGAN

I would like to move an amendment to Article 75. It is:—

"To delete Article 75, and substitute two new Articles, as follows:—

‘Every existing Officer of the Provisional Government at the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution (not being an officer whose services have been lent by the British Government to the Provisional Government) shall on that date be transferred to and become an Officer of the Irish Free State/Saorstát Eireann, and shall hold office by a tenure corresponding to his previous tenure,' and

Article 75a:—

‘Every such existing Officer who was transferred from the British Government by virtue of any transfer of services to the Provisional Government shall be entitled to the benefit of Article 10 of the Scheduled Treaty.'"

Article 10 is the one dealing with the compensation to be given to Officers who are either discharged by the Free State Government, or who retire by reason of the change of Government. The object of the amendment is to remove any ambiguity that might arise in existing Article 75 by reason of the fact that certain services are carried on by the British Government as agency services for us.

Mr. THOMAS JOHNSON

I would like to ask, for the purpose of elucidation, is an Officer who may have been transferred from England, and who is now given the option of retirement—an Officer who may have been in Ireland a year, or two years—should he come under this special provision?

Mr. DUGGAN

He would.

Mr. KEVIN O'HIGGINS

Every British Civil Servant that was a member of the British Civil Service here is entitled to the benefit of Article 10 of the Treaty if he wishes to resign on the change of Government. On the other hand, if we wish not to avail of his services we can discharge him, and he becomes entitled to the benefits in Article 10.

Mr. JOHNSON

The point is there is certain preferential treatment for that man who happens to be in the British Civil Service in Ireland—who happened to come over; the men who remained behind in England—his colleagues who did not come over—were not entitled to retire on these conditions. I do not know whether this applies to many officers, but I have a sort of notion that quite a number of men were brought over to Ireland, and conceivably these could go back to their old jobs. They were brought over at the request of the Irish Government, and brought over to facilitate the work of the British here, and these are now in a preferential position as compared with their colleagues who remained in England.

MINISTER for LOCAL GOVERNMENT (Mr. E. Blythe)

The answer to that is, of course, I think the obvious answer, that there must be a clean-cut line drawn somewhere, because if we were to hold to the point of view that Deputy Johnson has put forward the reverse would apply—that is, that men who are a considerable time in England would have to be sent back here, and would think themselves entitled to the terms of the Treaty because they were Civil Servants. It is accepted that a clean-cut line must be drawn. You cannot be looking back to how many men came here from England and how many were sent away to England. The whole Civil Service was run for the convenience of the Government before the Treaty.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

We are now dealing with Amendment 1 on the Paper, but I think we may take 1 and 2 together, and the question is that they are substituted for Article 75 of the Draft.

Motion made and question put: "That Article 75 as printed in the Draft Bill before the Dáil be deleted."

Agreed.

Motion made and question put: "That the new Article 75 and 75a be inserted and stand part of the Bill."

Agreed.

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