This Estimate is in connection with the Civic Guard, and the amount involved is £693,650. I beg to move that.
ESTIMATES. - CIVIC GUARD.
I think we are entitled to protest that the Minister for Home Affairs, who is responsible for the administration of the Civic Guard, is not present. I have a considerable amount of sympathy with the President, who had to get up time after time to answer questions which are really pertinent to particular departments. I really do not know whether it is possible to criticise this Vote now, or ask some questions, because I do not feel the President would be in a position to answer them. The responsible Minister is not here to do it.
The responsible Minister told me he wished to get away this evening. I would like to say that the Minister for Home Affairs works very hard, and his health is scarcely equal to the strain he has put on it recently. He was at work last night until practically 11 o'clock, and this evening he has some other business on hands. As far as this particular Estimate is concerned, I would prefer if it were discussed or criticised now. Criticism might probably be based on policy or finance. I think the Minister is satisfied anyhow with this force. As has already been stated here, the force is young. It has not had a fair chance—a fair chance to the extent that the necessary time has not been available for having the force instructed in police work. It is a young force. It has all the disadvantages, or perhaps all the advantages, of youth. It has the advantage of being very well received wherever it has gone through the country, and I think the Minister is justified in the hopes he entertains of the people appreciating the value of the force, and giving it every possible assistance. I would like to say with regard to the financial end that the rates are based on those that were in force in the R.I.C. and the D.M.P., which were in turn based on the English rates of pay. One or two of the allowances have been slightly reduced in the country, but, in the main, they are unchanged. Barrack furniture and repairs, etc., are obtained through the Board of Works, and the other estimates for supplies are put through the hands of the official in charge of the Trade Section of the Local Government Department. Those acquainted with him or his work know he is the sort of man who usually gets value for his money. As I have said, it is a young force. We may have to be patient with it in that respect, because there has not been any opportunity for having the members of it trained in police work. The Depot in the Park is being used by the English military. I expect the English military will be leaving Ireland about some time in January. If we were in a position to take over the institutions that they are now in possession of —I do not want that to go to the public —they would leave to-morrow. They are anxious to leave, and if it were not for the activities of people misled by fantastic notions, there might not have been a single English soldier in this country for the last three months—not one. Owing to the small accommodation there is for the remaining English troops, we have been unable to get that Depot, which is essential to have this force properly trained.
I quite appreciate what the Minister has said with regard to the force being young and the necessity for patience on our part on that account. The criticism which I was specially anxious to make, and which I shall confine myself to now, is one more appropriate to the beginnings of the force than otherwise. I would be anxious to find out what the position in the force is with regard to the Irish language. I believe a complaint has been made—I am not fully aware of the details—that in the qualifying examination for the Civic Guard Irish does not get a fair show. I do not say it ought to be compulsory at this stage; later on we hope it will be. It certainly should get a better show than it is getting at present. We know one of the chief reasons for the decay of Irish in the Irish-speaking districts in the past was the belief the people had that Irish was of no use to them. If it could be found that the possession of a spoken knowledge of the language was an essential factor in securing a situation or a position as a Civic Guard—quite a good position as things go—it would help the spirit of revival which it is hoped to inspire into the people in the Irish-speaking districts. We know, too, that the sending of purely English-speaking Government officials, such as policemen, coastguards, etc., into the Irish-speaking districts had a very deleterious effect on the language, and it would be a source of encouragement, apart from the actual necessity of the thing, to the people in those districts, if they saw that those who represent authority and law and order were speaking their own language. From the point of view of expediency and necessity, as a matter of fact, it is essential that officials who will be dealing with purely Irish speakers should be able to speak the language, and I wish to impress specially on the Minister for Home Affairs the necessity for seeing that Irish speakers, or Civic Guards able to speak Irish, and only those, should be sent to the Irish-speaking districts, and that in all cases the possession of a knowledge of Irish should be insisted on as far as possible amongst those joining the Civic Guard.
In the absence of the Minister for Home Affairs, and as I had something to do with the forming of the Civic Guard, I may say that it was always intended, and it is the policy of the Government, that so far as possible Irish-speaking members of the Civic Guard should be sent to Irish-speaking districts.
Earlier this afternoon when we were on the Vote with regard to the Congested Districts Department, and certain other Votes, it was decided to postpone their consideration because important matters would arise that the Minister responsible could himself only deal with. The Minister for Finance with his usual courtesy and his usual "dig" now and again to show us what his form can be, dealt with the Departments of his colleagues very well in their absence, but it is unfair to him and to Deputies—because this is the only opportunity the Dáil will have of bringing the various Departments under review in regard to these estimates—and I do urge that Votes of this kind with regard to the Civic Guard and other Votes that deal with specific Departments should not be gone into until the Minister is here to answer any questions that may be raised, and that in voting money the Dáil may do so in full knowledge of all that it is necessary it should know in regard to each Department. I think that is an important matter, because it is linked up with that responsibility in the control of finance which is essentially the responsibility of every democratic body.
The President has referred to the fact that furniture for which £21,000 is provided in this Estimate is a matter for the Board of Works. I had occasion very recently to go to the Board of Works people with some Trade Union representatives who were very much concerned as to the way the furniture was got for Departments such as this and also for the military people. I am reliably informed that a good deal of the furniture provided for the use of the Civic Guard and the Military Authorities was imported from the other side. I am aware that a number of workers engaged in the furniture trade are at the present time out of employment both in Dublin and in districts throughout the country and I fail to see any good reason why the Government should give contracts to cross-Channel firms when they might save money by employing men in the manufacture of furniture who are now receiving the dole, and who could produce it at a better and a cheaper rate. I hope the Minister will impress upon the Board of Works or those responsible for giving away contracts that it is essential for the saving of money to keep these contracts at home and to give them to Irish firms who could employ people who are now starving.
If the Deputy who has just spoken would give me particulars with regard to the contract of which he speaks I will undoubtedly look into it. The Board of Works is under the Ministry of Finance for which I am responsible, and I certainly would go into the matter. I think there is not likely to be very much further raised upon this Vote even if the Minister in charge was here, and I would ask the Dáil to pass the Vote now.
Motion made and question put: "That the Dáil in Committee, having considered the Estimates for Civic Guard, in 1922-23, and having passed a Vote on Account of £300,000 for the period to 6th December, 1922, recommend that the full Estimate of £693,650 for the Financial Year, 1922-23, be adopted in due course by the Oireachtas."
Agreed.