The Estimate of the Amount required is £360,000. This is of course, as I have already explained in connection with Customs and Excise. This particular service has been transferred, but the officials constituting the service have not been transferred. They are under the British Government, and at the moment they are simply discharging the duty of their particular service for us, and it is estimated that this sum of £360,000 will cover the cost of administration of that particular service. It was found necessary to come to an arrangement with the British Board of Customs and Excise to continue temporarily to administer in the 26 Counties as our Agents. That is what they are doing in this instance. This arrangement is in operation, and it is subject to termination at any time but will not extend beyond the 31st March next. I do not think it would be possible to terminate that arrangement until the 31st March. We simply repay to the British Government the actual cost of these services, and it is estimated that the sum of that will amount to £360,000, and we will have to pay this. If it is less or more we will have to pay less or more according to what the sum amounts to.
ESTIMATES. - CUSTOMS AND EXCISE.
I would like some information on the position that will prevail after the 6th December.
The present agency arrangement will continue.
Yes, but I take it that it will be within the power of the Oireachtas to alter the incidence of taxation after that day, even though service is continued by the present officers on behalf of the Dáil.
There are quite a number of Englishmen here in Ireland who wish to go back, and there are a number of Irishmen who wish to come over. Now, whoever comes into our service gets the benefit of Article 10 of the Treaty. We cannot take over at the moment, because Englishmen who would be here in the service might say, "We will retire to-morrow," and they would be entitled to draw their pensions.
That is not the point I wanted to raise. It is not whether duties under the Customs and Excise Acts will continue to be carried out by the officers who are doing it at present. Supposing the Oireachtas, in its wisdom, decides to alter taxation, are we bound to the present rate of taxes of Customs and Excise until the 31st March, or will it be in the power of the Oireachtas to impose higher taxes or to reduce taxes? What I have in my mind is—and I make mention of it because of a certain correspondence which has appeared in "The Economist"—it has reference to the possibility of the six Northern counties opting out or agreeing to remain in. The question has arisen of the possibility of Custom barriers between the six Northern counties and the twenty-six counties, and I want to suggest that if the Dáil decides to reduce taxes on tea, for instance, even if we are to make it up by increasing the taxes on something else—if we reduce the tax on tea to something lower than the taxes on tea in England, it may necessitate the Northern Government putting Custom-houses on every roadside station between our territory and their territory. They might not desire that there should be a contraband traffic in these easily movable articles from the twenty-six counties into the six counties. And if we decide to reduce taxation on these things, the necessity for putting Customs barriers would be upon them, and not upon us. That, I think, has been overlooked in some of this correspondence. I am asking the question whether it will be in the power of the Oireachtas, immediately it comes into being, to make reductions in the taxation on such easily movable articles as tea and tobacco. It might have a very considerable effect on the judgment and decision of the Northern Government if they knew that we are in a position to do that and had a mind to do it.
Of course it would be a very dangerous thing to alter the taxes right away. It would certainly complicate Revenue matters very much. I see the point with regard to Deputy Johnson's recommendation. The question is, upon whom is the responsibility going to be put for the erection of these Customs barriers? As somebody said in the North, it would be ours, but, of course, if what Deputy Johnson suggests was done, the onus would be upon them. I expect it is within the power of the Free State Government to do that, but I do not know that it would be good business. I do not think that it would have the effect intended. I thought the taxes as they stood were fixed in the Constitution for this transitory period, but if they are not I expect notice could be given to alter them, although it is not a course I would recommend at such short notice at any rate.
If you decide on reducing the tax on tea in the 26 Counties, what is to prevent the Northern Government reducing it still further? Then it would be a question of undercutting.
Deputy Johnson has quite forgotten that tea exported from the Northern area to the Southern State would be free of duty in the North; it would not be subject at all to duty in the North.
I am not quite sure that I understand the Deputy, but I take it the rate on tea is roughly about 6d. per pound to-day, and that it is the same going into Belfast, as it is into Dublin or London. If we decide to make it 3d. per pound there would be a great temptation for the Northern trader to invite tea from Dublin over the Border. The Northern trader and the Northern public would be parties to the conspiracy to encourage this contraband traffic, and, consequently the necessity for putting a customs barrier would lie upon the Northern Government, or the British Government.
In the North—in Belfast—there are a considerable number of wholesale tea traders. Their tea is brought into Belfast in bond, and anything they sell in the Free State territory would be in bond until it goes out of their territory, and will not be subject to duty until it goes into the Southern territory; then it is subject to the Southern duty.
Deputy Johnson overlooks the point that the Northern citizen would not think or dream of doing such a thing as importing contraband goods.
Motion made, and question put: "That the Dáil in Committee having considered the Estimates for Customs and Excise in 1922-23, and having passed a Vote on Account of £240,000 for the period to the 6th December, 1922, recommend that the full Estimate of £360,000 for the Financial Year, 1922-23, be adopted in due course by the Oireachtas."
Agreed.