In the absence of the Minister for Finance I beg to move this Estimate. It amounts to Fifty Thousand Three Hundred and Fifty-five Pounds. It is here in detail and fairly well explained.
DAIL IN COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES FOR PUBLIC SERVICES. - TRANSPORT DEPARTMENT.
I did intend originally to deal at some length with this Department and its administration, but in view of the pressure of time to deal with other matters that perhaps may be considered more important I only wish to make a few observations. Now, personally I feel that the Dáil should not be called upon to justify, or to pass a Vote so large as this, which, in my opinion, cannot be justified by any service that has been rendered to the public. This Department was set up originally as a result of the British administration of Irish railways. These railways having been de-controlled in August, 1921, I cannot see why the Government should continue to keep such a large staff at such a large expenditure. It is quite possible, of course, that things may happen in the near future whereby there will be a re-organisation of a Department of this kind, and it must be re-organised from what I can see of it. It can and will perhaps in the future do more than it has done in the past. In answer to a question which I raised the other day, Mr. Hogan on behalf of Mr. McGrath, who I regret is absent, stated that the officer at the head of this Department is responsible for the administration of work arising out of the legislation relating to tramways, canals, harbours, docks and piers. I do not know what "legislation" means, so far as the railways are concerned, especially since they have been decontrolled. I saw some correspondence in connection with the work arising out of this Department, and, as far as I could see from the documents that I have seen from that Department, the principal portion of the work is confined to defining the Acts of Parliament or reading the Blue Books, which will have to be turned and covered with green in the near future. I see in these Estimates an item for £16,000 for the Carrigan Award, or arising out of the Carrigan Award. I hope that that is the last that we have heard of this Carrigan Award. This Carrigan Tribunal was set up as a result of an agreement between two right hon. gentlemen, one a member of the Privy Council under the British House of Commons and the other a right hon. member of the Privy Council under the old regime which has disappeared. Although they may be considered right hon. gentlemen, I think it has been proved in the course of time that they were not right nor justified in what they have done, and especially nobody was justified in doing what the Right Hon. J.H. Thomas did in agreeing to the setting up of a farcical tribunal such as this without the consent of the accredited representatives of the railwaymen in this country to deal with matters that had arisen, and as a result of this the Irish people are called upon to pay £16,000. I hope it is the last that we have heard of this famous farcical Carrigan Award. Then I notice a sum of £15,400 (under (e) Great Southern and Western Railway Company Guarantee) is asked for here. I can speak, from ten or fifteen years' experience through acting on conferences on behalf of railwaymen, and, generally speaking, the relations between the railwaymen's unions and between the different managers representing the railway lines was very good, especially for the last two or three years; but there are one or two exceptions. The Company for which the Dáil is now called to give a vote of £15,400 is one and the principal exception. As a general rule, this Company has only come to agreements with the leaders of the railwaymen who represented their staffs after a threat to strike or during a period of strike, and after having come to these agreements they have always quibbled and endeavoured to break the agreements or misinterpret what is ordinary common English language, understandable by anybody. I hope, therefore, that when this Dáil is called upon to vote a sum of money away to a railway company in circumstances such as we are now confronted with, they will see that the company to whom the money is voted out of the public purse will honour the agreements they have already made, on behalf of the company, with the employees' representative, with whom they have made them. I was talking to one of the higher officials of this company quite recently in connection with a case of victimisation, which is quite a common thing on this line, and his idea of the unrest on this particular company's line is that it is due to political unrest. I do not think that is the position. It is an entire misrepresentation of the position, and it is entirely due, as can be proved by documents, to the tyrannical and autocratic attitude of some of the high directors of this particular line. I do not want to go very much more into this matter, in view of what has been said. Generally speaking on the Vote for this department, it has been the experience of the railwaymen's leaders, especially since the de-control of the railways, that the Transport department has not, when it has been called upon, acted impartially as between one side and the other. A department such as this with a head who draws from the public purse £1,463 per annum, should be prepared at all times to keep the ring between contending parties. I say positively, and with the authority of the two principal unions, that has not been the case, and I hope the Minister responsible for asking us to pass a Vote of this kind will have a friendly conversation with the individual at the head of that particular department and endeavour to persuade him that as a public servant his duty is to keep the ring and not be partial to one side or the other.
I thought this would be one of the Estimates that would be non-controversial, because I think we all know exactly where we are with regard to these figures. Certainly the Deputies on the Labour benches know pretty well what the various items cover. Deputy Davin made a point that it is a very large Estimate for the amount of work that is being done. I would point out to him that the amount under sub-head "A" is for salaries—£11,900. The total Estimate is £50,355, that leaves £38,455, and this is expended as follows:—Travelling and incidental expenses, £555; payment in respect of acquisition of land for colliery railways — Wolfhill Railway, £4,500, and Castlecomer Railway, £4,000. I take it that everyone agrees that must be paid.
At this stage An Ceann Comhairle took the chair.
I do not know whether the Deputy objects to the payment of £16,000 in connection with the suspension of the Carrigan award.
I do not object. I only drew attention to certain things arising out of the Vote.
I do not know whether he objects to the payment of £15,400 to insure that the guaranteed week would be in existence.
I objected to nothing; I just drew attention to certain things.
I merely wish to point out that the Estimate could not be less. In regard to the Department itself, I do not know the merits of the case, but it could not be reconstructed during the transitional period. I have some knowledge of the position, and I must say that I cannot agree with the remarks with regard to the head of that Department.
Motion made and question put: "That the Dáil in Committee, having considered the Estimates for Transport Department in 1922-23, and having passed a Vote on Account of £45,000 for the period to the 6th December, 1922, recommend that the full Estimate of £50,335 for the financial year 1922-23 be adopted in due course by the Oireachtas."
Agreed.
I move the adjournment of the Dáil until 3 o'clock on Monday. We can then finish the few outstanding Estimates. Possibly the view might be held that to rush in a few minutes such Estimates as the Land Commission would be a lack of a sense of proportion. Besides, it may be considered advisable, when we see what the position is, to call an early meeting for Tuesday for the purpose of formally inaugurating the new State, and holding, perhaps, elections to the Seanad.
I second the motion for the adjournment.
Motion made and question put: "That the Dáil do now adjourn."
Agreed.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.30 p.m.