I move this Estimate amounting to £31,665 as a Grant-in-aid of the Forestry Fund.
DAIL IN COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ESTIMATES. - FORESTRY FUND.
I would like to ask the Minister for Agriculture if he would give us some information as to the position of this Fund; what the prospects are, how much is likely to be spent during this winter, and whether there is any possibility of increasing the expenditure, or at least assuring us that all this sum will be expended during this winter? I note that the Grant-in-aid, £31,665 is the net amount, but there is a note attached saying that any balance of the sum issued which may remain unexpended on the 31st March, would not be liable to surrender. That is quite satisfactory, and I would like an assurance that there will be no balance unexpended, and that as much as possible of the money available will be spent in afforestation, planting, and in preparation for planting during this winter. I would like to have heard from the Minister that he was preparing to increase very greatly the area for afforestation, and that he will use so much of the labour that is available in the country—skilled labour as a matter of fact—for this class of work during this winter to relieve the unemployment, and to relieve it by a method which is undoubtedly a good investment. I suppose it would not be in order to enlarge on that phase of the subject, but I would invite the Minister to give us some information of the fullest possible kind in regard to the policy of the Ministry touching forestry, and especially the administration of this particular Fund?
This particular service was administered by an English Commission. We have taken it over, of course, this year, and I can assure the Deputy that within the money, £31,000 odd, we will do all the work possible this year. The amount of money which we propose to spend is more than we spent last year, considerably more. We are hampered to a certain extent by the fact that it has been found impossible to continue the work in certain areas, but the policy of the Department in this matter is to do all the work possible during the current year, and, if possible, to expend the full amount of the money. The note to which he refers is, of course, a mere explanation, just to show that it is a Grant-in-aid, and if it is, of course, that it will remain in the Vote. It has nothing to do with the policy of the Department, and I have impressed on the Department itself the absolute necessity for spending all the money available, and employing all the labour available at this particular work. We had some difficulty in finding sufficient trees this year, but we have succeeded just recently in getting fresh offers which will enable us to extend the operations to some extent. The operations would be much more extensive but for the fact that we had to withdraw from the Suir Valley, where we intended to replant to a very large extent. The scheme itself contemplates about 1,000 acres of planting this year. I think that is all I have to say on that point. I do not think this is the time for stating the Forestry Scheme for next year; it is a little bit early yet, and will require further consideration.
I am more than pleased to hear the Minister for Agriculture state that it is the intention of the Ministry to go on with the planting scheme for the re-forestation of Ireland. There is an industry in every small town in Ireland called the saw milling industry, and it was through the timber supply they were able to buy and cut that that industry was kept going. I would like to point out here that most of the timber, fit to use, is already cut in the country—that is, elm, ash, oak and beech. These were the principal timbers utilised for the industry and for the welfare of the Nation, and at present they are very scarce. There is, of course, a big supply of larch, birch and deal in the country. We have been told, more or less, that the timber grown in Ireland is not fit for use for housing purposes or for furniture making. Experts, who came over from England, Holland, Germany, France and elsewhere, said there was too much sap in the timber, and that it was not fit for use, and that it would shrink and warp, causing decay in any building or furniture that it was utilised for. Well, I am of opinion, as a man who has been working at timber all my life, speaking not from theory, but from practical experience, that the timber of Ireland should be controlled by the Government. It makes no matter whether it is private property or not, the Government should make an order that timber should only be cut and felled at the end of the season, when there is no sap in it, and that the trees should be thrown across one another and remain to dry. Then, that timber can be utilised and it will be as good as any foreign timber that we can get. Now, we use a great deal of timber known as elm in the country districts. This timber is used for the manufacture of traps, and chairs, and, above all things it is used for the manufacture of coffins, which have the principal run at the present time. Beech is mainly used for the manufacture of furniture, and for bobbins and bats. That class of timber is at present almost run out. Oak is made into wheels, and is used for several other industries in this country, and I think if we are really in earnest in our wish to develop Irish industries, that it is as big a tragedy for the Irish Nation that we are neglecting the timber and the forestry at the present time, as if we refused to give the workers of Ireland a living as by neglecting the timber you are also neglecting the workers. When the timber runs out you will have no more home timber to manufacture, and consequently workers will be thrown out of employment. I know several saw mills in Ireland which are at present working only three days a week. I sincerely hope that when replanting starts, it will be with timber that is utilised. I would like to remind the Ministry that we have four principal timbers— ash, elm, oak and beech. Of course, there is also the chestnut and the lime tree. I find that saw mill owners in Ireland when they buy a portion of a wood and fell the timber do not plant one single tree. The land where these trees grow is then waste. It is fit for nothing but for re-afforestation, and I think it is the duty of the Government to see that for every tree cut down, even if it is only thrown across the road they should see that another one should be planted. The "feller" of timber should be made plant at least two or three trees for every one cut down, in order to prevent a wasting in the industry, and to provide more timber for the coming generation who will, I hope, utilise it to better advantage than it is now being used.
The Minister for Agriculture has said his programme embraced the planting of a thousand acres, and that this programme is considerably impaired by the fact that he cannot plant in the Suir Valley this year. Well, I can tell him there is nothing to prevent him planting a good deal in the County Wicklow. There is any amount of land there suitable for the planting of trees, and, as the Department cannot plant in the Suir Valley this year, I hope he will direct his energies to doing more in the County Wicklow. At present they are only utilising 400 acres in Wicklow. There are great numbers of men out of employment in Wicklow and I hope, therefore, that the Minister will turn his attention in the direction I have indicated.
I would like to ask the Minister if he can give us any information with regard to Forestry education and schools. Are there any researches being carried on in the subject of Forestry, and, if so, is there any similar work going on in the College of Science, and is there any co-ordination between the Department of Forestry and the Department of Science? I see they have a Professor of Forestry on the education staff, and I hope that there is no overlapping.
I would like to ask the Minister if he intends to divide this money equally among the several counties, and if he has made out a scheme of that kind because we in Longford would certainly expect portion of the money. We have large tracts of land suitable for afforestation, and we expect that we should be considered in the making of any scheme.
I endorse everything said by the various Deputies, but there is one point I would like to suggest, and that is in regard to the question of afforestation and coast erosion. I understand that the French Government where they found damage from coast erosion, considerably overcame the difficulty by planting suitable trees, and in that manner preserved a good amount of land to the country. In various parts of Ireland there is a fair amount of coast erosion, so I would ask the Minister to take that matter into account and to see that in places where coast erosion is in evidence that suitable trees may be planted to check it.
With regard to Deputy Wilson's point, the programme of the thousand acres is apart altogether from the intended work in the Suir Valley. We will immediately introduce regulations in regard to the cutting and replanting of trees in forests. With regard to education—this item did not appear in the College of Science Estimate. I do not think there is any overlapping, and I do not think that the item for the Professor of Forestry appears in any other Estimate. It would not be possible to divide the work or money equally among the counties. A lot depends on what has been done in the past and the suitability of land, and there are circumstances of that kind that puts it out of the question that the money could be divided equally in each county. I have not considered the question of coast erosion, and hence I do not propose to say anything about it for that reason.
Motion made and question put: "That the Dáil in Committee having considered the Estimates for the Forestry Fund in 1922-23, and having passed a Vote on Account of £20,000 for the period to the 6th December, 1922, recommend that the full Estimate of £31,665 for the Financial Year, 1922-23, be adopted in due course by the Oireachtas."
Agreed.