I now move: "That the Dáil adjourn until 3 o'clock to-morrow."
THE ADJOURNMENT—KERRY PRISONERS' DEATHS.
In connection with the reply to my question made by the Minister for Defence to-day, I want to draw attention to the conditions in Kerry with which that question and answer had to deal. I do not want to go into detail. I am afraid the details would be harrowing and horrible, and I think it unwise at this stage to endeavour to incite any feelings that would keep sores open unnecessarily, but the question and the answer will leave, I am afraid, a good deal of dissatisfaction among the people of Kerry, and probably also in the minds of many people who would desire to be the greatest friends of the Government and the Army. Therefore, I want to urge that this inquiry that has been made by a court consisting of three military officers should not be accepted as finally closing these incidents. There was, as is indicated by the answer, a very horrible affair on the morning of the 6th March, when by the explosion of a trap-mine, an infernal machine of the kind that is concocted in infernal regions, three officers and two men were killed. A military order was issued the same day—I am taking the evidence of the answer—instructing soldiers that they must not attempt to move barricades or deal with dumps for fear there might be repetitions of the same kind of trap, and that instead of endeavouring to remove these obstructions themselves the military were to take out of the prisons men who had been captured and detained. Within twenty-four hours three such operations took place. Men were taken from the prison and found the next morning blown up by mines. Now, the rightness of this particular method is open to very grave question. It is confessed that there is danger in the removal of barricades, but untried prisoners are taken by the troops to run the risk that these barricades which have to be removed entail. We have no right to assume, the Dáil have no right to assume, and the military authorities have no right to assume that every prisoner who has been arrested is guilty of an offence. They were not tried, but prisoners were taken out of the prisons to undergo this risk, and, according to the case made by the military authorities, the risk proved so tremendous that somewhere approaching a score of men were killed. But I want to draw attention to the composition of the Court. The allegations, of course, that have been made are that these men were deliberately killed by explosions caused by the military. I am not going to take for granted every word or allegation that is made by what the answer describes as "Irregular propaganda," but those statements and allegations are very detailed, and concern more than one incident—three or four incidents, as a matter of fact, though I only dealt with two. Specified names are mentioned, and the public in Kerry believe the charges against the military The information upon which I base my question has come from friends of the Government, friends of the Army, friends of the Free State; not from enemies of the Government or the Army or the Free State, and I am regretfully compelled to say that the answer that the Minister made to the question is not calculated to satisfy the anxiety of those friends of the Government and the Army and the State as to their position. The Court which enquired into the charges consisted in respect of two out of three of the men who are responsible for the conduct of the Army in that area, and I want to contend that that is not likely to inspire confidence in the public who have been constrained to believe some, at least, of the charges that have been made against the military in this connection. The allegation is made and has more foundation than would appear from the answer—very much more foundation —that there has been a great deal of cruelty and a great deal of terrorism applied to prisoners in the charge of the military in that county, and my information is that the effect of these acts of cruelty to prisoners, and the effect of these particular incidents which are dealt with has been to alienate to a very great extent indeed the people of that district and of that county who had been won over to friendship with the Army and the State. I want to urge upon the Minister that there is sufficient basis for the charges that have been made to call for a non-military enquiry into the allegations in the County Kerry. and the allegations respecting the conduct of troops in the County Kerry. One could, if one thought it wise to do so, go into the details in respect of the statements that have been made, not only by those who are at enmity with the State, but by those who, as I have already said, would be friends; for it is necessary to reassure these people that the heads of the Army, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army, is going to insist upon discipline and humanity amongst all the soldiers under his command— officers of various ranks as well as private soldiers—and I am convinced, from information that has reached me, if one may say so, from within and without the Army, from those who value the good name of the Army and value the honour of the State, that these charges should be sifted and should be inquired into by a tribunal which does not consist of those who are responsible for the conduct of the Army in the district affected. I think the charges are sufficiently detailed, certainly serious enough, to require a very close investigation, and I urge that it is necessary that this investigation should be carried cut by a tribunal which has power to call evidence from whomsoever they may, and should not be influenced by those who are directly concerned with the conduct of the Army in the County of Kerry.
The officers who were entrusted with the carrying out of this Inquiry, from my point of view, at any rate, very naturally included the officer on whom devolved the very onerous responsibility of commanding the troops and dealing with the general situation in Kerry. It included that officer, and associated with him in that Inquiry was his second-in-command, and a senior officer from General Headquarters. I, as I stated in my answer, am quite satisfied that the occurrences were thoroughly investigated, and that the findings were correct. As far as the Kerry officers were concerned, very few who know them, and very few, I think, of the civil population in Kerry will question their desire for discipline. Time after time we have complaints from various parts of the population as to the restrictions placed upon our soldiers there. We have seen officers here, we have seen Major-General Daly train— for a few months, perhaps, in Dublin here, before we were called upon to defend this new State in arms—a handful of men whose discipline, quite as much as their daring, made it possible for us to tackle effectively in Dublin the root of what has been such a terrible disturbance. They have my fullest confidence from that point of view. I have the fullest confidence that the honour of the Army is as deeply rooted in them as it is in any of us here at Headquarters or in any member of the Government.
The occurrences have been investigated as fully as possible by people who, simply because they are members of the Army, but only because they are members of the Army, can be called ex parte investigators.
As far as any outside inquiry—an inquiry by what is stated to be non-military persons—is concerned, anybody who cares to press for that can press for it, and it will be for the Government to say whether they consider the circumstances are such as to require that there should be such an investigation. As far as the point that, just after the issue of this particular Order, three or four cases of this kind occurred, that Order was just emphasising a Regular Order that had been in force for months before that, and in connection with which the Irregulars have made many representations and many complaints previous to the ones that are being made now; and, if there were three cases occurring immediately after that Order was issued, a consideration of the circumstances in which they occurred, and the place in which they occurred, will disclose that at that particular time very determined efforts were being made by rather numerous groups of Irregulars in the Cahirciveen area to take Cahirciveen out of the hands of our troops. The Order that was being despatched from Tralee to the garrison in Killorglin, on the night of the Ballyseedy occurrence, was an Order dealing with that situation, and the sweep that was being made by troops from Killorglin, Beaufort, Killarney, and Barraduff on the same night was also activity that was being arranged there as a diversion and in order to prevent the passage to and fro of Irregulars from the Cahirciveen area. That will explain—it does explain to me, at any rate—why this occurrence happened immediately after that particular Order. On the question of the charges that are being levied in connection with this matter, I am convinced that there is no foundation in fact for them; and on the question of using prisoners for this particular class of work, we cannot avoid using prisoners for this particular class of work if we are going to make the roads in Kerry safe for the people; but we shall take all the precautions that we can to prevent that even in the clearing of those mine obstructions, many of which are still there, that the lives of prisoners will not be risked unnecessarily.
I take it that this enquiry was in lieu of an inquest. Will the Minister lay on the Table the evidence that was adduced in the course of that enquiry, or circulate it amongst the Deputies only?
I do not propose to bring forward the evidence that was produced at those enquiries. The statement of the occurrences is a statement verified and certified by three officers whose names have been given. As far as this enquiry being in lieu of an inquest is concerned, there is no reason why an inquest should not have been held, and there is no reason why in any case of the kind in Kerry an inquest should not be held.
Is it possible still to hold an inquest? Perhaps the Minister for Home Affairs will tell us.
I do not say that it would be impossible. It would necessitate the exhumation of the bodies so that a jury might view them. But further than that I see no factor that would make it impossible. Whether there were factors that would make it desirable would be a matter for consideration.
Will the Minister consider, in view of the circumstances that have been made known and of the facts that have been brought to the attention of the Minister, the desirability of holding an inquest into the circumstances of these deaths?
I certainly will.