On a point of order, I observe that the resolution purports to continue certain duties, and the second part of it declares, "it is expedient in the public interest that this resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1913." Then we have a schedule dealing with duties of Customs, duties of Excise, and other duties. Anyone who refers to the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1913, or the memorandum which came from the Chair, will see that the Act only applies to duties of Customs, Excise, and income tax. The Provisional Collection of Taxes Adaptation Order made by the present Executive Council could not, and did not, purport to alter that. I submit that it is not competent for us to pass the resolution as it stands, because we would be purporting to give effect by resolution of this Dáil, and not by Act of Parliament, to certain duties which are not income tax, which are not Customs, and which are not Excise duties; we can only do that in the Finance Bill. The resolution is all right so far as it relates to Customs and Excise, but I submit it is wrong in its relation to anything else, and we would be doing a thing which would be clearly and obviously ultra vires if we passed it as having relation to anything else. It would be wrong to impose taxes which we have no power by resolution to impose. I would ask you on those grounds to give a ruling on the matter.
FINANCIAL RESOLUTIONS—REPORTED. - GENERAL TAXES AND DUTIES.
I take it it would be impossible for us by resolution to alter the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act. The provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act will only apply to the collection of taxes to which the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act applies.
May I point out that the resolution says "the several taxes and duties specified in the schedule to this resolution shall... continue to be charged, levied, raised, imposed and paid in Saorstát Eireann." In other words, the Minister for Finance proposes that those taxes shall be raised which we have no power by resolution to impose. We may pretend to impose them by resolution of this Dáil—solemnly pretend— but it will have no effect whatever.
If the ambit of the resolution goes wider than the ambit of the Act of 1913, then so much of that ambit as is in excess is surely out of order.
What does the Minister for Finance say?
I would say that both Deputies are wrong.
He pleads guilty, sir.
Perhaps the Minister will explain in what way the Deputies are both wrong.
This is the customary form. We are asking for nothing more than is usually asked for, and we are doing this, subject to the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, as is customary and was customary in another place in doing the same thing.
Has the Minister heard of a certain thing known as a logical fallacy and called petitio principii?
The Minister should not be asked questions in the Classics.
I have no doubt that the Ministry in this matter at at least are acting under advice It is their duty to take advice and they have excellent advice at their disposal. I think it would be improper for me to ask the Dáil to vote or not to vote in any particular way upon any legal opinion that I might think fit to give, when the legal advisers of the Government have their mouths closed and are not in a position to answer me. I think we ought not to reject this resolution which has been brought forward on advice, but I venture to suggest to the Government that before they proceed to collect any of those particular taxes under the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, they should very carefully consider whether they might not find themselves in the same position as the Bank of England when the Bank illegally deducted income tax from Mr. Gibson Bowles. If this resolution goes on, I do not intend to vote upon it. I think the Government will be well advised to look into the matter between this and the time when they proceed to levy taxes other than Customs and Excise.
Do I understand the ruling is that we can proceed with the resolution?
I have not ruled in the matter at all. If I am asked to rule on a matter apparently of pure law, I shall certainly require considerable notice, and I regret that Deputy Duffy from his knowledge of law did not give me some such notice.
The Deputy who has just spoken has suggested this resolution was drawn up under advice. It may very well be that the advisers overlooked the particular point that is now before the Dáil. At all events, in view of the fact that the memorandum which the Chair circulated, expressly says that the Act only applies to duties on Customs and Excise and Income Tax, I would suggest if the Finance Minister does not want to change this Schedule altogether he should make two resolutions of Number 8. Let him take that portion relating to Customs and Excise as one resolution. If he thinks he gains anything by passing the other, which I venture to think would be merely bluff, let him pass the other part of the Schedule as a separate resolution. Otherwise this Dáil is really being treated without the dignity due to it when it is asked to pass something and to mix it up with a thing which is not legal. This is obviously a thing which is not legal, and the Dáil is asked to pass this resolution solemnly when it knows it can have no effect.
I am advised that the resolutions are quite in order, that these things that are not covered by the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1913, have been specified and passed here, and are already covered by the Constitution. The resolution, as it stands, has been drawn up by our Legal Adviser and is in correct form, the Deputy's objection notwithstanding.
That is to say, there is statutory authority for the duties to which the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act, 1913, does not apply?
Yes. I am willing to postpone the resolution if it is the wish of the Dáil to go on with Deputy McCartan's motion.
Resolutions 8 and 9 postponed.