I beg to move the Second Reading of the Oireachtas (Payment of Members) Bill, 1923. This Bill gives effect to a Clause in the Constitution which provides for the payment of members. It is, I think, an agreed measure. Certain details in the Bill satisfy the peculiar conditions that may arise, accidents that may befall Deputies, and so on. If a Deputy is unable, by reason of illness, to take his seat within the prescribed time, he will not be penalised by reason of that fact. Travelling expenses are allowed in a way which, I think, will satisfy the majority of the Deputies. Generally speaking, the Act has been framed on the recommendations that were made by a Committee specially set up to deal with the matter. I do not think there is anything contentious in it, and if there be any provisions which do not give satisfaction, they would be open to necessary amendments that might be considered when we are on the Committee Stage.
OIREACHTAS (PAYMENT OF MEMBERS BILL, 1923—SECOND STAGE.
I beg to second the motion.
In connection with railway tickets, I wish to suggest to the President that the present arrangements whereby Deputies must apply every time for a railway voucher, should be superseded. Deputies should be given a season ticket to and from the points between which they are allowed to have railway travelling free.
Secondly, I wish to press upon the Minister the desirability of having postal franchise for Deputies in respect of letters posted in the Dáil. That would be a matter of very considerable convenience to Deputies. It is not the kind of thing that is likely to be abused, and I suggest it is not a case where Treasury parsimony ought to be allowed to come in so as to prevent what is a very common privilege to Members of Parliament in all parts of the world.
I also desire to suggest that Deputies who wish to receive regularly the "Iris Oifigiuil" or "Official Gazette," should be supplied with it without being called upon to pay the subscription.
There is one further matter to which I would draw attention. In Section 2 an allowance of £30 per month is prescribed. I suggest that the words "towards expenses" should be added by the mover of the Bill on an amendment. These words appear higher up in the recital. The reason for inserting them in the Bill is to avoid certain Income Tax authorities coming along and saying that these payments are payments in which they also would have an interest.
I would like to ask the Minister if any representations have been made to the railway authorities concerning the question raised by Deputy Duffy. As well as being a convenience to Deputies, the privilege, if it is a privilege, of having a season ticket to any part of their constituency, would also mean a saving for the Ministry of Finance. It is pretty well known that cattle dealers and other people who travel pretty regularly on the railways, get concessions from the Companies. The Government would be making no unreasonable demand to ask for similar concessions for Deputies. Those concessions, in addition to being a convenience, would be a saving for the Ministry of Finance. There is another aspect to the case. A Deputy may leave Dublin for a particular portion of his constituency. When he would arrive there he might, perhaps, be requested to go to another place which, when leaving Dublin, he did not intend to visit. It would be unfair to expect Deputies to bear the very heavy charges of going from one area to another. By the issuing of a season ticket, provision could be made for all the requirements of Deputies. This is a matter upon which representations should be made to the Railway Companies in the interest of Deputies.
I support the suggestion put forward. It is a very desirable thing, and more in keeping with the position of the Government, that Deputies should be supplied with season tickets. It is not a good thing to be issuing vouchers week after week. A lot of trouble is involved. I support the suggestion of Deputy Duffy that the words "towards expenses" should be inserted. Some newspapers are beginning an attack in regard to salaries. Anyone who has to keep in touch with his constituency, and has to be up here week after week, finds that the allowance will never make him a millionaire.
I also wish to associate myself with the Deputies who have urged the getting of season tickets. Deputies domiciled in the country find it almost impossible to get to their constituencies. We get a voucher here from the Dáil, but if we happen to be a minute or two before the train leaves, the difficulty of getting a pass is such that we have to wait probably for the next train. The train, on the other hand, may be going out, and we would have to run and "get the wind up" in order to catch it. That has happened to myself on a few occasions, whereas if I had a season ticket I could enter the train immediately on arriving at the platform.
Furthermore, I fail to see how the people of the country can talk, or the newspapers can print animadversions as to the large salary that the present Teachtai of the Dáil are receiving. It is not a salary. It is portion of the expenses they incur. Now, any Deputy who is domiciled in any part of the country and who has a home to keep up, and has to pay hotel expenses here and other out-of-pocket expenses, will have nothing at all left to keep the home. I can assure those people from outside who complain of this large salary that that is so. The Teachtai would want some other income to keep their homes. A Teachta would want some other income before he can live on £30 a month salary from the Dáil. If it could be possible for these expenses to be increased, I think they ought to be increased. I think this would be necessary, for if the Minister for Finance does not see his way to do so shortly, I will try to do my best to organise what will be known as the "Teachtai's Union," and then you will have a strike in the Dáil.
I would be sorry if the question of season tickets had obscured the matter raised by Deputy Gavan Duffy, namely, that copies of the the "Iris Oifigiuil" be supplied to the Dáil Deputies.
I am afraid that the raising of the question of supplying documents to the Teachtai does not arise in a discussion on the Oireachtas (Payment of Members) Bill, and is not relevant to the Bill. If one reads the title one will be quite clear on that point. I am sure Deputy Gavan Duffy is quite clear on the matter himself.
Perhaps, having mentioned the mystic words will be quite sufficient.
Yes.
I handed in an amendment to section 2. Perhaps that will come up on the Committee stage. It is with regard to the attendance of Deputies here, and those Deputies who are receiving £30 a month expenses and who are staying at home are only an incubus on the Treasury and are not rendering the service which they should.
As far as this Bill is concerned, it provides for carrying out the recommendations of the Committee set up for the purpose of this matter. I think I can give an assurance to the Deputies who think there is a likelihood of this sum being included in the assessment of their Income Tax, that that will not be the case. There is no such intention. I think it would be a very serious matter if Deputy Lyons' suggestion were carried out and that there should be a strike here. That would be a very serious matter. I think the Truck Act prevents us stopping payment to any person who does not attend. It would be serious if we disobeyed our own laws.
With regard to the franking of letters, I do not know that is a matter which could come in for discussion now. I think it was under the consideration of the Committee, and I think it was turned down by the Committee. With regard to the season tickets, I think that that matter was also considered. It was found that only on one line would there be a saving. I will, however, look into the matter for the next day, and see if anything can be done with regard to it. But I should say that in the case of Deputies who are only travelling once or twice a week, there might not be a saving. We cannot compel the railway companies to give those season tickets if they are not agreeable to it themselves. I do not think it would be right to compel them in order to facilitate Deputies of the Dáil. But I shall look into the matter more carefully and see if anything can be done in that direction.
Might I say that Deputy Lyons is too modest to raise the matter himself, but I think he had the intention of asking the Minister to agree to a system of Dependents' Allowances. He has eleven children.
Might I just refer to the reference made by the President to the Committee's action on free postage and franking letters for the Deputies. My recollection is that it was not turned down, but rather it was dropped when they got a plain intimation from the Finance Department that it would not be favourably considered.
Matters such as documents and Teachtai's rights with regard to free postage merely point to the need for a Committee on privileges. Such a Committee would prevent me from being constantly asked what Deputies' privileges are. The Bill is for a specific purpose and does not include any matter relating to documents and free postage.