I move that the Dáil do now adjourn.
THE DAIL IN COMMITTEE. - THE ADJOURNMENT—BALLYHAISE STRIKE.
Mar a thug me fógra air roimh-ra is mian liom iarraidh ar an Dáil aire a thabhairt ar an stad oibre san colaisde talamhuíochta i gCoir Chabháin. Tá dha cheart ann. An chead cheist oca: laghdu ar thuarasdail na bhfear oibre san colaisde agus an dora cheist nach bhfuair Cumann na bhfear san aon fhógra ar an laghdu paighe sin ón Aireacht.
There are two questions involved in this strike of the agricultural labourers employed by the Minister for Agriculture in the Agricultural Station at Ballyhaise. First, there is the question of the reduction of wages on these men, and, second, there is the relationship between the Department and the Union to which these men belong. I am informed that under the direction of the Ministry of Finance it was decided about the 17th June that a reduction should be made in the case of these workmen. As regards some of the men, this reduction is as high as 10s. a week. No doubt it is divided into two cuts, one of 5s. last month and one of 5s. to come into operation a little later. That is a very heavy reduction indeed. The other question, and I think it is as important in a way as the question of the actual wages reduction, is the relationship between the Department and the Union to which the men belong.
No intimation was given to the Union by the Department concerned as to the coming reduction. Even when the Union got into touch with the Department as a result of the reduction, and a strike had taken place, the Union suggested that there should be a conference, but no acceptance of the offer to hold a conference has been given by the Department. The wages of most of the men are being reduced to 30s. per week, plus time and a half for overtime. They work a 54-hour week. In some cases the reductions are more. There is the rather significant point that notice was actually given in Ballyhaise by, I think, the Department that in the event of a strike taking place notification was to be given by the College immediately to the nearest Civic Guard Station. Now, it happens, I think, that the relations between the men and the authorities there have been ordinarily good. I do not think that any one who knows the County Cavan people will think there was a real likelihood of trouble. This was an ordinary industrial dispute, but the Department wanted apparently to be very much upon the safe side, and therefore they were looking out for the Civic Guard.
The ordinary course, even under the British regime, has been that when an increase is demanded, or a reduction threatened, the Department concerned has no hesitation at all in getting into touch with the Union to which the workers belonged, and making an attempt at first to arrive at something like an amicable settlement. No such attempt was made in this case. The cut was enforced, and on the 21st June the Union wrote to the Department, and in the course of their letter protested against the cut, and suggested a conference. The letter was replied to, but there was no reason given why there had been no negotiations with the men or the Union prior to the cut, and there was no acceptance of the suggestion for a conference. Later on the suggestion of a conference was renewed on the part of the Union, but no response has been made to that letter. I do not say that the Minister for Agriculture is altogether to blame, though he is responsible for the Department. It appears that between the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Agriculture there is an Inter-Departmental Committee, whose activities, I think, the Dáil would do well to be watchful of. This Committee, I understand, ordered this reduction, and it looks as if the Executive Council is setting up, without informing us here much about it, what we might call "a docking committee." No doubt economy is very necessary, but if it is necessary it should be done in a way that would produce the least friction. Certainly the activity of this Committee, in this particular instance, has produced friction, which has resulted in a strike. I may add that there is some sign that the Workers-Farmers Alliance is going nearly as strong up there as it is here, but that is by the way. The Department claims that there had been reductions in the price of labour in the district. My information is that there has not been such a reduction. As a matter of fact, there is not a great deal of employment locally, and the only place that would compare in numbers in the locality with this station is the creamery there. Now the wages in the creamery are 40s., I think, for a much shorter week and less number of hours—52 hours as a matter of fact, against 54 hours. The position, I think, wants some further explanation by the Ministry than that vouchsafed by the Department to the Union, and I ask the Minister to give us that explanation. I would press him to give an explanation as to why there was no attempt at negotiation between these men or their Union before the reduction took place; why was there no conference, and no acceptance of the offer of a conference since; and I should like to ask him whether it is the determined policy of the Department, that in a case like this action should be taken without any attempt being made to fix up the matter peaceably and quietly before any such action is taken.
I must confess, at the outset, that I do not know as much about this as perhaps I ought to know. I do know this, that these matters are fixed in this country as in other countries, by the Treasury, with the assistance of an Inter-Departmental Committee. That is not peculiar to this country, that wages and conditions applying to men of this sort should be regulated by the Ministry of Finance with the advice and assistance of an Inter-Departmental Committee. That is what is done here and in every other country. There is nothing hastily done. All the circumstances of the case were inquired into. The maximum wages for similar work in the neighbourhood were ascertained, and the wages offered by the Treasury, on the advice of that Committee, are the maximum wages for that class of work in the district. There was one case quoted by the Deputy, that of Ballyhaise creamery. The work in a creamery is totally different from agricultural work on a farm. My information is that the wages offered here are equal to the maximum wages accepted by other men in the Union in the same neighbourhood for the same class of work; and I think I am standing on a very sound principle when I say that a Government Department like this, employing labour, is doing as much as it would be entitled to do when it pays the maximum wages for the same class of work in that district.
And the same hours?
That is my information.
Are they fixed hours?
My information is that these employees are being paid the maximum rate of wages paid to men doing a similar class of work in the neighbourhood. If that is so, we are on firm ground. I understand that the Deputy's real complaint is that the Union was not consulted beforehand. I am ready to listen to any representations that may be made to me, and I would like to hear their case. It is hardly fair to expect me to express an opinion on a question like this offhand across the Dáil. If the Union puts the case in writing, I will bring it before the Departmental Committee, and will undertake to discuss it with the Committee and go into the question fully. At present I cannot say any more on that particular question.
That matter has not been dealt with very satisfactorily: the matter which the Minister says is the chief point in the complaint of Deputy O'Shannon, which is that the Ministry simply takes up the position that after a certain date the men get notice that their wages shall be so-and-so, and accompanying that notice is the intimation that the Civic Guard must be on the look out. That surely is not the kind of relationship there should be between an employer and employee, especially when the employer is a Government Department. After all, the men have the right to be able to confer; it is a reasonable request at least that there should be some conference to discuss the matter of a contract. The method that has been adopted towards the men is that, on and after a certain date, "you shall be paid so-and-so," as if there was no other party to this agreement, and as if the expected response is to be a strike, because there is a notification immediately after the men have been told that their wages are to be so-and-so, that the Civic Guard are to be in attendance. That is not calculated to produce harmony or good service in the future. It is rather shallow and shortsighted, and I hope the Minister will take notice of that part of the complaint as well as the other, and attempt to change the attitude of mind, shall I say, between the Ministry, as an employer, and the workers as servants. Surely nobody is going to plead that in this day an employer has nothing to say to an employee except "your wages henceforth are reduced by 10s.," and leave it at that.
That is what I was referring to when I said that I understood Deputy O'Shannon's chief complaint was that the Union had not been consulted beforehand. As I have already stated, if the Union puts the case in writing before me, I will undertake to discuss it with the Inter-Departmental Committee, and I will give the Union at least a considered view on that point at the first opportunity.
I am sure the Minister has the file of correspondence that passed between the Department and the Union in reference to this case, and if he has that correspondence he knows that a suggestion was made by the Union on two separate occasions, on the 21st June and on the 3rd July, for a conference between the Department and the Union. There was no response to that particular suggestion, and there was no consultation either with the men concerned or with the Union before the cut took place.
I do not think I have anything more to say on that point. What was done by this Committee is the normal procedure. It was not until after the notice had been served that I had any reason to think that the men or the Union thought the procedure rather summary. As I say, the Department is open to receive any representations that the Union wishes to make in writing, and I am prepared to discuss the question with the Inter-Departmental Committee and let the Union know what our definite policy is on this matter. I could not state our definite policy at the moment.
You say written representations?
Yes.
What about verbal representations in the shape of a conference in the ordinary way?
We would consider that question on getting the written representations first.
And let the strike go on?
The sooner the written representations are made the sooner it will be brought to a head.
It is rather a pity to hear the Minister say that this is the normal procedure.
The Dáil adjourned at 4.20 p.m. until 3 o'clock on Monday, 9th July.