Dáil Éireann debate -
Monday, 30 Jul 1923

Vol. 4 No. 20

COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - [DAIL IN COMMITTEE.]

[SECTION 1.]

Mr. JOHNSON

I think this is the time to raise a question on a matter which is, perhaps, rather a detail, but I do not think that there will be any opportunity of raising it, inasmuch as I had been rather expecting an opportunity for the last week or two to raise it, but it did not arise. It is in connection with the boundary between Donegal and Fermanagh, and the position of one of those little corners which is causing so much trouble. The County Council of Donegal, or the local Council, I am not sure which, is responsible for a considerable expenditure on the repair of roads which are in constant use by motor conveyances belonging either to the British Army or the Specials. I understand that between two points between Belleek and Pettigo it is necessary to traverse an area which is in Co. Donegal, and that there is very considerable traffic in this area in the neighbourhood of Castle Caldwell, in the Belleek District, and I think I am right in saying that that garrison is actually in the Free State area.

I am not quite certain of that, but the point I am raising is that there is considerable damage to roads there by virtue of the constant coming and going of those motors, and always the possibility of trouble arising unless men are very discreet. What I desire to ask is, whether there has been any arrangement made regarding the upkeep of that road, quite apart from the Boundaries question, which is very ticklish, I have no doubt. But there is a certain liability, and if the Northern authorities must be facilitated in their traversing of the particular piece of road in question, they should at least agree to a payment for the use of that road, and the damage to it. I am told that the fort which is occupied by the British military of the specials is on the Donegal side, and in the Donegal area. I think the Dáil is entitled to know whether any special arrangement has been come to in regard to that district, and if so what arrangement.

The PRESIDENT

As far as I know there is no such arrangement in connection with that area. This is the first time I have heard any case put forward in connection with the use of motor lorries on Donegal roads. There was some consideration given to facilities being afforded the troops, or Specials from the Six County of certain areas of the Twenty-six Counties, and corresponding facilities were also the subject of consideration, but, as far as I know, the matter is not yet completed, and I take it that the use of these places by people from the Six County area would be in the nature of a set-off for any facilities we would get for the use of troops traversing portion of the Six County area, but other than that I do not know that any arrangement has been come to on this matter. I should say that it has not been brought to my notice that the Donegal County Council entered any objection, or put forward any case that they were entitled to any consideration for the use of roads there.

CATHAL O'SHANNON

I think it would be well if the President would look into the matter raised by Deputy Johnson, because there is a certain amount of feeling in the Tirconaill part of the district over the matter, not that there would be any great objection, so far as I understand, to reciprocal arrangements, but as the Boundary question is looming up, there is a certain amount of, not exactly tension, but feeling on both sides. It would be well if this matter were looked into, because certain things are happening. I do not want to raise in any contentious spirit the Boundary question at all, but one or two things happened recently which might be provocative. I refer to the arrest of a Saorstát patrol which, I think, accidentally strayed two or three yards from its own area into the Six County area. When these things happen anybody who knows, and it is known for years, the position of affairs in the Six Counties, knows how easy it is to raise feeling to a pitch which would precipitate a conflict. The unfortunate thing up there is that when one little thing happens something else happens on the other side, and then something happens more serious again on the first side, and something more serious still then happens on the second side, with the result that a conflict of serious dimensions is brought about. I think it would be well if the President would look into this particular matter, because there is grave danger that something which nobody, at all events I think in the Saorstát, would desire might result from this particular thing.

The PRESIDENT

I undertake to do that.

Section 1 put and agreed to.

[SECTION 2.]

Mr. JOHNSON

Can the Minister say whether he has made any progress in regard to the suggestions that were pressed some months ago about making arrangements with other banks in the Saorstát besides the Bank of Ireland. Explanations were given on the last Appropriation Bill as to the necessity for introducing the words "the Bank of Ireland" in this section. I understand there was, as a matter of fact, an indication given that the Minister for Finance was prepared to consider the question of approaching other banks, and not to allow the Bank of Ireland to have a permanent preference, and that it should become in fact a State Bank without State control of that bank, that in effect the Bank of Ireland might become the owner of the State, rather than the State the owner of the Bank of Ireland. I would like the Minister to tell us whether any progress has been made in respect of suggestions that other banks should be brought into relations somewhat analogous with those of the Bank of Ireland to the State. I do not want to go into details in this matter, but there was a more or less implied suggestion that consideration would be given to the preferential position of the Bank of Ireland, and I would like to know if any progress has been made in that direction, and what is the present position.

The PRESIDENT

That matter has been raised by, I think, the Standing Committee of the Irish Banks, but we have not been able to find a solution of it so far. The particular terminology used here has not evidenced any special concession to the Bank of Ireland, because the first line, "The Minister for Finance may borrow from any person," entitles any other person or corporation than the Bank of Ireland to lend to the Government, but there is a necessity for the specific mention of the Bank of Ireland, owing to some clause in their Charter which prohibits them from lending to the Government unless permission is granted by the Parliament.

I should say that in connection with any accommodation that we have got with the banks they facilitated us as a body, each bank taking portion of the accommodation that has been given. It is possible that within a few months we will be able to say whether it will be practicable to make the arrangement that has been mentioned by Deputy Johnson.

Motion made and question put: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill."

Agreed.

Sections 3, 4 and 5 put and agreed to.