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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 31 Jul 1923

Vol. 4 No. 21

THE COURTS OF JUSTICE BILL, 1923. - FIRST READING.

May I beg the indulgence of the Dáil for the consideration of a very earnest request to grant permission for the introduction of a Bill, mention of which has already been made, and the introduction of which is, in a sense, completing as far as possible in that direction the Constitution which we have adopted. I refer to the Judiciary Bill. I shall have to ask for the very generous patience of the Dáil, because, in the first place, I feel unequal to the proper treatment of a subject of such magnitude and importance, and secondly, because I feel and know that if the subject-matter with which I am attempting to deal were in more capable hands, that all the concessions which I crave would be willingly assented to, though, perhaps, accompanied by some admonitions which would be certainly justified. It is unnecessary to point out here, or to remind Deputies, that the Judiciary, as it is and was known in this country, did not obtain that public approval which is an essential precedent for its Constitution; that while that was so the people of this country were unable to effect any change; and that for a lengthened period —that is to say, since the institution of popular representation and the repeated return of popular representatives pledged to change the administration of the country and its control—prejudiced the selection of the Judiciary, which during that period, although appointed by the Crown, was, nevertheless, made by a Government which did not command the confidence of the people of the country. Judges then entering on their important, and one might well say sacred, duties were nominated by alien authority, and, however conscientiously and justly they may have discharged their duties— granted even, for the sake of argument, that they were in direct intellectual succession from Solomon, they had not that popular authorisation which is a fundamental principle of democracy. There were then political associations which still further prejudiced that position of strict impartiality which is so necessary in the dispensation of justice. I do not think it necessary to refer to the fact that during the period under review the Bench in Ireland had, neverthless, most distinguished and able jurists and conscientious lawgivers. If I might digress for a moment I should say that in the many changes inseparable from the Treaty position, we have endeavoured so to regulate these necessary alterations with as little disturbance and as free from offence as was possible in the circumstances. I hope that those who do not subscribe to the spirit of the change will give us credit for the consideration so shown, and that due appreciation of all the complexities will also be shown. May I also express my keen desire that I should say nothing which would tend to leave any trace of bitterness or make for any want of confidence in the weighty responsibilities which have fallen on us.

After the setting up of Dáil Eireann the position of the Judiciary became complicated, at least in the terms applied to it—namely, "British Courts"; and I think I must again draw on the patience of the Dáil. Previous to the signing of the Treaty there were two Courts, which were termed "The British Courts" and "The Dáil Courts." It will be immediately conceded that such a situation was not workable. I am particularly anxious to avoid any possible complications in this explanation, and would like to confine my remarks to the problem which confronts us, and which is no doubt the wish of every member of the Dáil to solve. The adoption of the Constitution made it necessary to reorganise our Judicial system.

I wish to make an appeal for the consideration of this Bill. We have passed the Constitution, and in it we have made provision for the proposals set out in this Bill. I have already asked many concessions from the Dáil, and Deputies have responded generously. Every reasonable request which I have made, and many unreasonable demands which I have had to make, have been conceded graciously.

This is a Bill drafted on the lines of the report of the Committee set up by the Government to advise the Government as to how best to give effect to the articles of the Constitution, and to provide for the setting up of national Courts of Justice in the Saorstát. I think it is advisable that I should read the letter which I addressed to the members of the Committee at the time when they were invited to assist the Government in the matter. The letter is dated the 29th January, 1923, and is addressed to Lord Glenavy, who was Chairman of the Committee, and it is as follows:—

"In the long struggle for the right to rule in our own country, there has been no sphere of the administration lately ended which impressed itself on the minds of our people as a standing monument of alien government more than the system, the machinery, and the administration of law and justice, which supplanted in comparatively modern times the laws and institutions till then a part of the living national organism. The body of laws and the system of judicature so imposed upon this nation were English (not even British) in their seed, English in their growth, English in their vitality. Their ritual, their nomenclature, were only to be understood by the student of the history of the people of Southern Britain. A remarkable and characteristic product of the genius of that people, the manner of their administration prevented them from striking root in the fertile soil of this nation.

"Thus it comes that there is nothing more prized among our newly-won liberties than the liberty to construct a system of judiciary and an administration of law and justice according to the dictates of our own needs, and after a pattern of our designing. This liberty is established and the headline is set in the Constitution drawn up by the elected representatives of our people.

"It is provided by Article 64 of the Constitution that the judicial power of the Irish Free State (Saorstát Eireann) shall be exercised and justice administered in the public courts established by the Oireachtas by judges appointed in the manner therein mentioned.

"It is thereby further provided that the courts so established shall comprise:

"1. Courts of First Instance (Cuirteanna Cead-Cheime) which shall include:

"(a) a High Court (Ard-Chuirt) invested with full original jurisdiction in and power to determine all matters and questions, whether of law or fact, civil or criminal; and

"(b) Courts of local and limited jurisdiction with a right of appeal as determined by law.

"2. A Court of Final Appeal (Cuirt Aitheisteachta Deire) to be called the Supreme Court (Cuirt Uachtarach).

"For the full statement of provisions you are referred to Articles 64 to 72 (both inclusive) and Article 75 of the Constitution, whereof a print copy is sent you with this letter.

The first Government entrusted by the people with a mandate to give effect to the Treaty from which this Constitution has sprung finds amongst its earliest tasks of presenting to the Oireachtas the measures which will establish courts in fulfilment of the Constitution, and will fashion an administration of justice upon which the people will lean with confidence and affection.

"This task calls for grave consideration and much help in expert advice and suggestion drawn from diverse experience and varied knowledge. The Executive Council felt that it must have the co-operation of a Committee so constituted as to serve it with that advice and suggestion in preparing the necessary measures. On behalf of the Executive Council, I have to thank you for so readily accepting the invitation to become a member of this Advisory Committee, under the Chairmanship of Lord Glenavy. The Government invites the Committee to act in accordance with the following terms of reference—viz.:—

"To advise the Executive Council of Saorstát Eireann in relation to the establishment in accordance with the Constitution of Courts for the exercise of the judicial power and the administration of justice in Saorstát Eireann and the setting up of the offices and other machinery necessary or expedient for the efficient conduct of legal business."

"The Committee is requested to approach the matters referred to them untrammelled by any regard to any of the existing systems in this country, to examine the nature and classification of the legal business, both contentious and non-contentious, for the due discharge of which in the interests of justice, machinery and establishment should be provided by the State, and to consider and report upon the requirements of the litigants and other persons interested, and especially as to accessibility, efficiency, expedition and cost.

"Questions such as these of the centralisation or decentralisation of the Courts, the numbers and grades of judges and judicial persons and officials, and their respective qualifications for office, and manner of selection, the method of trial by jury, will be amongst the many subjects which must anxiously engage your attention.

"It is hoped that the Committee will find it convenient to enter upon its labours immediately, and with a view to that end you are invited to attend a preliminary conference at the Government Offices, Upper Merrion Street, on Friday, the 2nd prox., at one p.m. o'clock."

That letter was signed by me in my capacity as President of the Executive Council. The committee comprised Judges of recognised position and long experience in the existing courts which we took over from the British, as well as Judges who had been very successful in the work of the Dáil Courts. It included representative men of both the legal profession and the President of the Chamber of Commerce. It is a notable thing that the Committee arrived at an absolutely unanimous report. The report was circulated by the Government, and met with a chorus of approval in all directions. The Bill which I now propose to introduce is a Bill for setting up Courts exactly on the lines of the report of that Commission, so that this Bill may be said to have behind it the unanimous recommendation of an expert Commission, and as far as one has been able to judge by the many expressions of opinion in the Press and elsewhere the hearty approval and endorsement of the public. The Government consider it very important to have National Courts of Justice in existence at the earliest possible moment in order that the people may have the most complete confidence in the administration of the law, and may be thereby led to respect for the law which previously existing circumstances did not inspire.

The leading features of the measure are provision for expeditious and economical disposal of legal business, with the advantage of local hearings for the ordinary run of litigation of the country. In future, for actions involving money up to £300, people will not be taken away from their business in the country and kept hanging about in Dublin. The Circuit Court is an innovation in one sense, though in another not, for it reproduces the Circuit Court of the old Dáil Courts System, which was found attractive to litigants. Small debts will, under this Bill, be recovered promptly in the Courts of the District Justice, while a Court of Appeal will be constituted which will be the final Court of Appeal in the land. If we get this Bill through, it will be possible to have the procedure and the business of these Courts organised during the summer, so that they may be able to start in the autumn. If that be not possible, then the new Courts could hardly be anticipated before next year.

As I have said, I have made many requests to the Dáil, and this may be the last. I put that, not to influence your sympathy so much as to ease your mind. The Dáil is within its rights, within its privileges, and within its generosity in refusing this request. But I put the request forward because I feel that it is due to the Dáil itself that, having accomplished so much, and it has accomplished much, still further to mark the great advance which it has made to secure the confidence of the people in their Parliament. I put this forward in the highest national interest to ensure the most priceless blessing which any Parliament can hope to secure, the cordial acquiescence of its people in their legislative assembly, an acquiescence which is attainable only by limiting complaints and by helping in the construction of institutions which will command their highest confidence. I beg to move for leave to introduce this Bill.

I second the motion.

The Minister has introduced another Bill of very great importance. He has thrown himself upon the generosity of the Dáil, and, of course, it is very hard to resist an appeal such as that which he has made. But until the Bill is before us I think that we must harden our hearts, at least until then, and probably even afterwards. While I have no doubt that it is of very great importance to the mind of the Minister that this Bill should become law, so that the new Courts could be set into operation during the summer, I do not think that is sufficient justification to us to make us promise that such a Bill should pass without discussion. Ministers have their responsibilities, but we also have responsibilities, and we would be answerable along with the Ministry; we would be responsible for the measure when it becomes law to the extent that we supported it. If we allow a Bill of this kind to pass through without discussion, as we have allowed two other Bills which were temporary, we have to share the responsibility for that acquiescence. We cannot make a Bill of this kind a temporary provisions Bill, and I do not think that a Bill of this kind, which, I assume, is of considerable length, requiring careful consideration, should be pressed upon us. When we have seen the Bill we will be better able to express a more definite opinion, and I think that it is well that, even at this stage, we should not hold out a promise that there is general acceptance of this proposition that this Bill should pass through without full consideration.

I would like to say that I think that is perfectly fair. We have three days—Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. We expect to get the League of Nations Bill from the Seanad, and the Suspension of Valuation Bill, which are non-contentious; and there may be introduced the Licensing Bill. I have not seen it yet. There is the Indemnity Bill, then, and this Bill, so that I should say that we would have two whole days for dealing with this. I cannot ask for anything more than Deputy Johnson is inclined to give—that he will give the matter consideration when he reads the Bill. I think it is perfectly reasonable, and I will undertake to have the Bill circulated without delay.

Motion put and carried.

When do you propose to take the Second Reading?

If we get out copies of the Bill to-night, perhaps we might take the Second Reading to-morrow. Deputies can hold it up on the Committee Stage if they think well, but it would leave the road open for the Committee Stage on Thursday.

I do not think there would be any objection to having the Second Stage taken at any time, because I do not suppose that there will be any controversy as to the principles of this Bill. We have all seen a Judiciary Committee Report. But I do suggest that to run the Committee Stage through at short notice might be very dangerous, because when you have gone wrong in setting up your Courts, or made mistakes in details about them, it requires legislation to set it right again, and great injustice and great expense may be caused to litigants from blunders made in the beginning. I think the sooner we see this Bill in print the better. If there were anything that ought to be considered in detail, not necessarily by us, but by the people who know what is to be done in setting up and running Courts, the innumerable details in which blunders may be made through haste, and the consequent enormous expense, I think it will be realised that it would be rash to try to force this Bill through, or to get it through without force, in twenty-four or forty-eight hours, or three days. I think that it would be quite possible, if this Bill were read a second time, for the country to turn its attention to its details, and probably an enormous number of obviously necessary and agreed amendments could be produced, and the Bill would be put through at very short notice when the new Dáil assembled. I have not seen the details of the Bill. I do not know whether it is a Bill that could possibly be put through in the short time at our disposal; but if not, I do not think much time would necessarily be lost, because probably a better or equally good Bill could be produced and put through on short notice after the new Dáil assembled, and the new Courts would be set up and in full swing by the time the ordinary Court business starts after the summer, which is usually in October. I think it would be quite possible to give full consideration to this Bill as printed, to have amendments agreed and ready, so that the whole thing could be put through at short notice, but after careful consideration when the new Dáil came into its own. As I say, I reserve judgement on that until I have seen the Bill.

We have all read and carefully studied the report of that Committee to which the President referred. Those who are in the Dáil who are interested in the measure are well acquainted not merely with the principle, but with most of the suggested reforms and the lines upon which they are to proceed.

We cannot have a discussion on this question, which is a matter of fixing the date of the Second Reading.

I was addressing myself to that. Perhaps my roundabout circumlocutory method does not fall in with your ideas as to order. If so, I apologise for myself; it is with that I was going to deal.

I was going to say that in view of that it would be quite easy for us to take the Second Reading this week, for although there is, as we have already seen by experience, a considerable difference between the report, as a report, and the draftsman's application of it in terms of sections and sub-sections, yet, in this case there can hardly be much room for departure or for alteration, and so we ought not, I think, lay ourselves open to any fair accusation of hasty legislation in this matter, if we carry the discussion no further than to pass the Second Reading. But I join thoroughly with Deputy FitzGibbon in deprecating going through the Committee Stage of such an important measure in a hurry, because this is quite as important for the future of the nation as any measure we have yet undertaken the consideration of. There is a further thing to be borne in mind. Two of the remaining days, Wednesday and Friday, happen to be days set apart for private business, and it would be necessary for the Government to move to take that over for the greater supply of time for the important measures, so, it seems to me, the wisest course is that we should get the Bill, study it, and have a fair idea at least of how far it conforms to the impression we had derived of the measure from a study of the report upon which it is founded, and at that stage we would be in a better position to decide how much further, if at all, the Bill can proceed.

Question put:—"That the Bill be read the first time."
Agreed.
Second Reading ordered for Wednesday, 1st August.

Deputy Gorey is not present to raise the question on Damage to Property.

The Dáil adjourned at 6.5 p.m.

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