Before entering upon the Orders for the day, the President desires to make a statement.
THE ARMY POSITION.
I have to ask the permission of the House at this stage to make a statement on a matter of public importance.
On Thursday last, the 6th instant, at 10 p.m., there was handed to me a document signed by Major-General Liam Tobin and Colonel Charles Dalton, which I propose to read to the House.
Dublin, 6th March, 1924.
To President Liam Cosgrave.
Sir,—
On behalf of the I.R.A. Organisation we have been instructed to present the following Ultimatum to the Government of Saorstát Eireann.
Briefly, our position is this:—
The I.R.A. only accepted the Treaty as a means of achieving its objects, namely, to secure and maintain a Republican form of Government in this country.
After many months of discussion with your Government it is our considered opinion that your Government has not those objects in view, and that their policy is not reconcilable with the Irish people's acceptance of the Treaty.
Furthermore, our interpretation of the Treaty was that expressed by the late Commander-in-Chief, General Michael Collins, when he stated: "I have taken an oath of allegiance to the Irish Republic and that oath I will keep, Treaty or no Treaty." We claim Michael Collins as our leader, and again remind you that even after the Treaty was signed, that drastic action was taken against enemies of the unity and complete independence of our country. Both in oath and honour bound, it is our duty to continue his policy, and therefore present this Ultimatum to which we require a reply by 12 noon, 10th March, 1924.
We demand a conference with representatives of your Government to discuss our interpretation of the Treaty on the following conditions:—
(a) The removal of the Army Council.
(b) The immediate suspension of Army demobilisation and re-organisation.
In the event of your Government rejecting these proposals we will take such action that will make clear to the Irish people that we are not renegades or traitors to the ideals that induced them to accept the Treaty.
Our Organisation fully realises the seriousness of the action that we may be compelled to take, but we can no longer be party to the treachery that threatens to destroy the aspirations of the Nation.
LIAM TOBIN, Major-General, President of the Executive Council.
C.F. DALTON, Col., Secretary to Executive Council.
Having heard the text of the document Deputies will have no difficulty in agreeing that it constitutes a challenge which no Government could ignore without violating the trust conferred on it.
I do not propose to discuss any political point connected with the document. I consider that in the circumstances, such a discussion would be indefensible, and I may say that this Government has never discussed questions of politics with Army Officers.
The necessary administrative and disciplinary steps will be taken to deal with this conspiracy. Orders have been issued for the arrest of the signatories to the document; the personnel of the Headquarters Staff has been strengthened by the appointment of General Eoin O'Duffy to be General Officer Commanding the Defence Forces. Measures have already been taken throughout the country to deal with any situation which may arise, and nothing will be left undone to secure that the discipline of the Army will be maintained.
The Government relies fully on the Army as well as on the whole body of citizens to support it in whatever action may be necessary to maintain the democratic authority of the people. The attempt, such as it is, is not against a particular Government; it is a challenge to the democratic foundations of the State, to the very basis of Parliamentary representation and of responsible Government. As such, it is the concern of every Deputy, of every party and of every citizen.
rose.
Is it proposed to take a discussion on this subject now or later?
Deputy McGrath wishes to make a statement.
I have the permission of the President to announce to you now the fact that I have resigned from the Executive Council. I resigned on Friday night, when it was decided to take this action. But I want it definitely understood that my resignation is not as a result of the action taken on receipt of this document. With the document I am not in agreement. As a member of the Executive Council, which is the Government of the country, I could not possibly be in agreement with it. But I have my own views regarding the document, and I have agreed with the President, or, at least, he has agreed, to name a date which I hope will be to-morrow, on which we can discuss this whole question. I would ask the Press, if it is possible, to refrain from comment on that document, and I ask the people of the country to refrain from forming opinions on the document until I have given the facts to the Dáil, and until I have given the facts to the people of the country leading up to this. I am thoroughly satisfied in my own mind that I will convince you this is brought about by absolute muddling, mishandling and incompetency on the part of a Department of the State.
I feel, taken in this way, that this document, or, at least, the statement by the President of which I have a copy, will not satisfy the requirements of the case, and will not satisfy the public in its demand for more information than is contained therein. I am sorry the President has contented himself with simply reiterating what I believe every Deputy of the Dáil is ready to affirm and re-affirm— that is, that we cannot in the slightest degree accept the proposition that any member or members, high or low, of the armed forces of the State shall be allowed to dictate or attempt to influence as soldiers the political policy of the country. There are ample means at the hand of every man, ex-officer or, shall I say, ex-soldier, to influence public policy. Once a man has entered again into the ranks of private citizenship he is entitled to use every method provided for under the Constitution to bring his point of view to bear upon the public mind. While there may be a majority, and a vast majority, of people who would agree with the ideals suggested as being held by some of these men, the way to arrive at, and achieve that purpose, is by other means entirely than the means outlined in the letter which was transmitted to the President. The Dáil must insist on every possible occasion that the Army is to be subordinate, and I am sorry that we shall be left at least for another 24 hours before we are informed as to the real matter that is hinted at and touched upon in this statement of the President.
I say I am sorry that we have not got further information, and I am afraid the lack of it will rather damage the cause of constitutional Government, but we shall be content, though I am very doubtful whether it would be possible in the circumstances, to give adequate consideration to the ordinary business of the Dáil.
I am prepared to name to-morrow after Questions to allow an opportunity to the Minister for Industry and Commerce to state the case for his resignation.
The proposal is to allow the Minister for Industry and Commerce to make a detailed statement to-morrow after Questions, and then to take the discussion on this whole matter. Is that the idea?
Yes.
It seems to me that this is such an urgent matter that it is questionable if it ought to be left over until to-morrow. Coming up here from the country and not knowing exactly what the position is, we are hearing all sorts of rumours,; it seems to me that there ought to be a contradiction of these rumours or they ought to be affirmed. It looks to me that this matter ought to be taken up by the Dáil sometime this evening. I do not wish to press that point of view, but I am expressing the feelings of the people in the country when I say that every possible light should be thrown on this matter at once. Between all the parties in the country and because of the action of the military forces, the people in the country have suffered a terrific lot during the last three or four years. The ordinary citizens are wondering where they stand to-day between the armed forces, and want to know from the Executive Council and from the administration what the real position is. We also want to hear from the other side what the position is as regards these officers in the Army and ex-officers. What do they really want, or what is the cause of their dissatisfaction? What do they want to do, or what is it they want to do with the country?
I beg to support Deputy Baxter in the suggestion he has made. The longer this matter is left in a state of mystery the wilder the rumours will be that will get about, and the more disquiet will be caused in the public mind, and great harm will be done to the State. The only reason that I can see for a postponement is that Deputy McGrath wishes for more time to prepare his statements, and one would not desire to do anything unfair to him, because he ought to have every opportunity of making his case. Unless that is the case, I do urge the President to allow the discussion to go on to-day. I believe that serious public harm will be done if it is postponed.
I might point out that the only matter before the Dáil is the action the Government has taken on this letter. I have announced that fact, and if that be disagreed with, I think a motion ought to be made. Other than that there is nothing before the Dáil that I know of.
I am quite ready to go on now, but I would like to point out to the Dáil and to Deputy Baxter and Deputy Cooper that it is in the interests absolutely of the people of the country that a little delay is necessary. It is the people I am thinking of, and nobody else or anything else.
I would like to know, quite apart from matters which happened prior to Friday, if we could have from the President some information as to the position that exists in the country to-day. That at least should be given to us.
The position in the country to-day is as has been stated in the official reports that have been given to the Press, with the exception of the incidents that have taken place in Roscommon, Gormanstown, Baldonnel and Templemore. In Gormanstown, Roscommon and Baldonnel certain officers have absconded, taking with them small quantities of stores. Last night and yesterday evening an incident occurred in Cashel where an officer left his post and took away eight rifles, the men, however, standing firm. An incident occurred in Gorey, where an officer attempted to take away some rifles belonging to the garrison there. His men interfered with him, and secured the property connected with the post there. The officer and some of his sergeants absconded.
A small number of resignations have taken place throughout the country, particularly here in Dublin—approximately, about 20. There is a certain atmosphere of threat, that a large number of officers throughout the Army are preparing to resign if the threat contained in the letter to the Government is not carried out; that they are prepared to set themselves up in arms in defiance against the Government is another threat. There is only one part of the country in which I am not quite convinced as to the absolute control of military forces loyal to the Government. There is only one part of the country in which there are possibly any ramifications of any danger, and that is in the County Cork. The Second in Command in Cork, who has some connection with this conspiracy, has resigned. I may possibly be in a position before the Dáil adjourns this evening to give a detailed statement on the position, but beyond what has been reported up to the present, there have been no incidents of irregularity, and I am absolutely certain of our control of the forces over the whole country with the possibility—and it is only a possibility, because this matter has been a secret matter—that there may be some defections, whether from the point of view of resignations or from the point of view of seizing some military posts that are in the Cork area.
The Minister spoke of a few resignations, about 20, I think, he said. Will he indicate what grade of officers they may comprise?
I will undertake to have a statement as to resignation for the Dáil before it adjourns.
I realise that intervening in a debate of this kind is a rather delicate matter at the moment, but I put it to the President and to the Dáil that we are not in a frame of mind to go on with the ordinary business while this matter has not been properly settled. I suggest, if it be possible, that we should have an adjournment for a number of hours. I think at a critical stage such as this is, the most critical with which we have been faced since we came here, that if necessary we could sit up all night or wait until the President and his Government on the one hand and Deputy McGrath on the other are prepared to come here to the Dáil and give us such a statement as will enable Deputies to take part in a proper way in a discussion of this very serious matter. I suggest, if it is possible, to have an adjournment to such an hour as would suit both the President and Deputy McGrath, and that would enable them to come here and give the Dáil all the information that it is entitled to.
I for one would not favour an adjournment of the Dáil. I think that if the Dáil were to adjourn we would be giving perhaps a greater impetus to this thing than it deserves, and I think we should be guided by the Deputy, who promised to make a statement to-morrow, and who says the statement will be in the interests of the people. I think we should be guided by him and by the President in this matter and that we should now proceed with the ordinary business of the Dáil in the ordinary way.
My nerves are all right. I am prepared to go on.
I would like to let the President know that there is nothing wrong with my nerves either.
Oh, I quite agree.
I would suggest there are really two distinct matters which arise—one is the question of national security arising from the letter addressed to the President of the Executive Council and the action taken by the Government upon that letter, and the other, I understand, is the circumstances of the resignation of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, which involves dissatisfaction, I think he said, with a Department of State. The two things are apparently connected, though they may be separate. It is now proposed to postpone a discussion until to-morrow.
Agreed.
The statement of the Minister for Industry and Commerce will be taken to-morrow after Questions.