I move amendment 1: In sub-section (1), line 21, to delete the figures "1907" and to substitute therefor the figures "1919."
This amendment is merely to correct a clerical error.
DAIL IN COMMITTEE. - DUBLIN RECONSTRUCTION (EMERGENCY PROVISIONS) BILL, 1924.—THIRD STAGE.
(1) Where the right honourable the Lord Mayor, aldermen and burgesses of Dublin (in this Act referred to as "the Corporation") require to purchase land under the Public Health (Ireland) Acts, 1878 to 1907, for the purpose of widening, opening, enlarging, extending or otherwise improving streets in the City of Dublin in connection with the reconstruction of areas, streets, houses or buildings destroyed or damaged in the course of the recent disturbances, they may be authorised to purchase the land compulsorily by means of an order submitted to the Minister and confirmed in accordance with the Schedule to this Act.
(2) Any such order may for the purpose of enabling the Corporation to widen an existing street authorise the Corporation to acquire compulsorily any lands (hereinafter called "the acquired lands") more remote from such street than the premises actually fronting upon the street, and such order may provide that when the acquisition of the acquired lands is completed, the respective interests in the lands (hereinafter called "the intervening lands") situate between the street and the acquired lands shall cease to attach to the same and shall instead attach to the lands (including the necessary portions of the acquired lands) exactly corresponding in area, lay out, and situation with relation to the new frontage of the widened street and any street intersecting or intersected by the same, which last-mentioned lands are hereinafter called the "substituted lands."
(3) As from the coming into operation of the said order with reference to the respective interests in the intervening lands, every grant, conveyance, and assurance relating to any portion of the intervening lands and every interest, legal and equitable, in the same shall affect the corresponding portion of the substituted lands as if such portion were the land originally dealt with in such grant, conveyance, or assurance, or affected by such interest.
(4) Every order made under this section shall be registered in the proper office for the registration of deeds or titles, as the case requires, in such manner as may be prescribed.
(5) The procedure under this section for the compulsory purchase of land shall be substituted for the procedure for the compulsory purchase of land under section two hundred and three of the Public Health (Ireland) Act, 1878.
Amendment put and agreed to.
I move amendment No. 2:—
To insert a new sub-section before sub-section 4:—
An Order made under this section may authorise the Corporation to purchase in addition to any lands required for the purpose of widening, opening, enlarging, extending, or otherwise improving a street, such lands as may be required for the purpose of enabling the Corporation to provide and let or sell, with the approval of the Minister, suitable building sites fronting upon such improved street.
The object of this amendment is to give the Dublin Corporation powers to acquire buildings or lands that may be unsightly or likely to cause inconvenience in the building of new streets or the building of new houses, or buildings that may stand in the way of the proposed widening of streets. The Corporation have certain powers, but they fear that if they started to build a new terrace of houses, or a new line of shops, they might come across one owner who might own a very old unsightly building, and who would not be prepared to allow it to be moved back. This amendment is merely for the purpose of compelling such a man, who wants to block, as it were, the beauty of buildings adjoining, to conform, and to give the Corporation power compulsorily to acquire the site or compulsorily to make such a man carry out the work himself.
Will the operations of this amendment be limited to the destroyed area?
Mr. BYRNE
The idea is—as I understand—that if in the destroyed area, or close to it, there is an unsightly building likely to decrease the value of the new buildings, to try to get power to remove such a building, or to compel the owners to make the building suitable to the requirements of the neighbourhood.
If the purport of the amendment is limited to the destroyed area, so far as I am concerned I have no objection, but if this clause is one that may have a wide and far-reaching effect, I should ask that it should get further consideration. But if I am to understand from this Bill that the whole of its operations are to be confined to the destroyed area, it would be different.
The Bill is entitled "An Act to amend the Law as to the Erection of Buildings and the Making and Improvement of Streets in connection with the Reconstruction of Areas. Streets and Buildings in the City of Dublin damaged or destroyed during certain Disturbances in the said City," so that it is obvious this amendment applies only to these areas.
Yes, but the statement of the Deputy who moved the amendment would rather leave one to infer that he was going further.
There is a certain amount of ambiguity about the amendment, as drafted. I think most of us would sympathise with the object of the amendment; but, as drafted, it would accomplish a great deal more than what the Deputy intends. I will take the matter into consideration and see if we can formulate an amendment that will meet the Deputy's requirements, but, as drafted. I am not sure but that the amendment does go outside the scope of the Bill.
Mr. BYRNE
I am quite satisfied with the Minister's assurance, and ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Question—"That Section 1, as amended, stand part of the Bill"—put and agreed to.
Sections 2 and 3 were agreed to and added to the Bill.
SECTION 4.
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section the Corporation may advance money on the security of the ownership of the site of any house or building which has been damaged or destroyed in the course of the recent disturbances for the purpose of enabling the house or building to be rebuilt or restored in such manner as will comply with the requirements of any existing bye-laws of the Corporation and any requirements of the city architect under this Act.
(2) The advance shall not exceed the difference between the amount which the Minister certifies to be the total cost of rebuilding or restoring the house or building in such manner as aforesaid and the amount of the compensation granted out of public moneys in respect of the destruction or damage of or to the house or building, and no advance shall be made unless such compensation has been granted and unless the Minister certifies that the advance is necessary for the purpose aforesaid.
(3) The advance shall be repayable within such period, with interest at such rate and by such instalments or otherwise as may be agreed upon subject to the sanction of the Minister, but the rate of interest shall not be more than ten shillings above the rate at which the Corporation can at the date of the advance borrow money for the purpose and the term of repayment shall be a term not greater than the term for which the Corporation can so borrow: Provided that in the case of an advance in several sums successively the foregoing provisions as to the term of repayment and as to the rate of interest shall have effect as respects each sum advanced as if it were a separate advance:
Provided also, that the balance of any such advance outstanding at any time, or any part thereof being fifty pounds or a multiple of fifty pounds may be repaid by the borrower on giving six months' notice in writing to the Corporation.
(4) Subject to the provisions of this Act the repayment of the advance and interest as aforesaid shall be secured by a mortgage of the site of the house or building in such form as may be approved of by the Minister. Such mortgage may contain provisions for authorising the advance to be made in several sums successively as the work of rebuilding or restoration proceeds, and for ensuring that the advance will be applied in defraying the expenses of that work and such other provisions as the Minister deems necessary, and no money shall be advanced unless, and until the Minister certifies that he is satisfied that the value of the estate or interest assured by the mortgage is sufficient security for the repayment of the advance, and that the title to the estate or interest so assured is one which an ordinary mortgagee would be willing to accept: Provided that the Minister shall not issue a certificate under this sub-section without giving notice to the Corporation of his intention to issue such certificate and considering any representations they may make in that behalf.
(5) The Corporation may exercise all the powers and remedies for recovery of the principal money and interest which are expressed in the mortgage or implied therein by law.
(6) An application for an advance in accordance with the provisions of this section shall not be refused, except where and so far as the Corporation, in the opinion of the Minister, cannot borrow money for the purpose on reasonable terms.
(7) In this section the expression "ownership" in relation to the site of a house or building means such interest or combination of interests as constitutes an estate in fee simple or fee farm in possession or a leasehold interest in possession under a lease for lives or years renewable for ever or a lease for a term of at least ninety years unexpired at the date of the mortgage.
I beg to move amendment No. 3 on the Paper:
In sub-section (2) to insert after the word "amount" in line 6 the words "made up of the sum" and to insert after the words "as aforesaid" in line 7, the words "together with any legal expenses necessarily incurred in proceedings under section 5 of this Act."
The object of the amendment is that the advance provided for in sub-section (2) of Section 4 may cover the cost of any proceedings under Section 5 of the Act.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 4, as amended, stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
SECTION 5.
(1) Where a person desirous of obtaining an advance under the last preceding section is not in a position to secure the repayment of the advance in accordance with the provisions of that section owing to defective title or the insufficiency of his estate or interest in the site or of the value of that estate or interest, and the other persons whose concurrence is necessary in order to remedy or remove the defect or insufficiency are unable or unwilling to concur in securing the advance, he may apply to a Judge of the High Court for an order charging the ownership of the site and any interest therein with the repayment of the advance with interest.
(2) On any such application the Judge may direct such inquiries and investigations as he thinks proper for the purpose of ascertaining the title to the ownership of the site and the values of the several estates and interests therein, and if after giving to all persons interested an opportunity of being heard it appears to him that the advance would ensure to the benefit of other estates or interests as well as the estate or interest of the applicant, and that all those estates and interests afford together sufficient security for the advance he may make an order charging all such estates and interests and every one of them with the repayment of the advance with interest, and may by the same or any other order apportion the advance, interest, and instalments as between the several estates and interests charged in proportion to the benefit accruing from the advance to the owners of those estates and interests respectively.
(3) Subject to the limitations imposed by the last preceding section, the amount of the advance, the rate of interest, and the term and method of repayment shall be at the discretion of the Judge.
(4) Provision may be made by the charging order for ensuring that the advance will be applied in defraying the expenses of the work of rebuilding or restoration and for any other matters for which, in the opinion of the Judge, provision ought to be made.
(5) A charging order shall be effectual to charge every estate and interest expressed to be charged with the repayment to the Corporation of the advance with interest in the manner therein provided as a first charge in priority to all charges and incumbrances thereon.
(6) Where the Judge makes an apportionment order he may, if he thinks fit, declare that the whole of the principal money, interest, and instalments for the time being payable under the charging order shall, in the first instance, be paid by and recoverable from the owners for the time being of any estate or interest in the site which he may specify, and may provide for contribution and adjustment of rights and liabilities as between the several estates and interests charged and the several owners thereof for the time being in such manner as appears to him to be equitable.
(7) The Judge shall have power to apportion the liability for any charge or incumbrance which affects any other lands, estates or interests as well as the lands, estates and interests charged or proposed to be charged under this section, and to provide for such contribution as between the lands, estates and interests liable, and such adjustments of rights and liabilities (including indemnities) in relation to the common liability as appear to him to be equitable.
(8) The Judge shall have power to ascertain in such manner as he thinks proper what easements and rights (if any) affect or are attached to any lands, estate, or interest charged or proposed to be charged under this section and to define all or any of those easements and rights, and to hear and finally determine all questions and claims that may arise with respect to any of the easements or rights, or any actual or anticipated infringement or violation of the same and to stay proceedings in any other court in relation to any such infringement or violation.
(9) For the purposes of this section the Judge shall have and may exercise all such powers and jurisdiction as are vested in or exercisable by the High Court or any division, court, or judge thereof, under any enactments or rules which are applied for the purposes aforesaid by rules made under this section.
(10) The Judge may review, rescind or vary any order made under this section, but no such order shall be subject to appeal and no proceedings before the Judge under this section shall be removed into or restrained or questioned by any court.
(11) Arrangements may be made between the Chief Justice and the Irish Land Commission for the performance by officers of the Irish Land Commission in cases of urgency of any duties under this section which may be directed by the Chief Justice, and those duties shall be performed by those officers accordingly.
(12) The Chief Justice may make rules for carrying the foregoing provisions of this section into effect, and may by any such rules regulate the practice and procedure under this section (including costs), and for that purpose may adapt any enactments or rules regulating practice and procedure in the High Court or any division or court thereof.
(13) For enforcing a charging order made under this section the Corporation, in addition to any other powers and remedies in that behalf, shall have and may exercise all the powers and remedies which are conferred on mortgagees by the Conveyancing Acts, 1881 to 1911, and those Acts shall apply accordingly in like manner as if the order were a mortgage made by deed.
(14) It shall be the duty of the Corporation to cause each charging order to be registered forthwith in a special register to be kept for the purpose in the Registry of Deeds and such special register shall be kept accordingly and registration therein shall be effected in such manner as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Chief Justice, and the registration of an order in accordance with those regulations shall be in substitution for registration under any enactments relating to registration, and the order and the charge thereby created shall be exempt from the provisions of any such enactments accordingly.
The regulations made under this sub-section may:—
(a) provide for the register being open for inspection at all reasonable times, and for the issue of certificates as to orders registered, and as to entries with respect to any specified land, estate or interest;
(b) prescribe (subject to the approval of the Minister for Finance) the fees which may be charged for inspection or for certificates, and the method in which fees are to be applied and accounted for;
(c) provide for any other matters in respect of which, in the opinion of the Chief Justice, provision ought to be made.
I move amendment 4 on the paper. In sub-section (14), lines 23 and 24, to delete in each line the word "special."
A register already exists under the 1916 Act, and it is not necessary that there should be a special register.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question—"That Section 5, as amended, stand part of the Bill"— put and agreed to.
SECTION 6.
(1) At any time after the expiration of two years from the passing of this Act if it appears to the Minister on the application of the Corporation that the rebuilding or restoration of a house or building destroyed or damaged in the course of the recent disturbances has not been commenced, or, although commenced, has been discontinued, the Minister may, unless he is satisfied that the rebuilding or restoration will be completed within a reasonable time, make an order directing that the Corporation shall sell all or any of the interests in the site of such house or building by public auction and that the Corporation may, if they receive an offer for such site which the Minister and they consider satisfactory, convey the interests so sold to the purchaser subject to an obligation to erect a suitable building upon the said site within two years after the date of such conveyance.
(2) The purchase money produced by such sale shall be lodged to the credit of the Accountant-General for Saorstát Eireann in the Bank of Ireland and may be withdrawn by the persons entitled to the interests so sold in the same manner as money lodged in court under the Lands Clauses Acts may be withdrawn save that no costs shall be payable by the Corporation in respect of the withdrawal of such money.
(3) Applications to the Minister by the Corporation under this section shall be made in such manner and after publication and service of such notices as may be prescribed by the Minister, and before making an order under this section the Minister shall consider any objections which may be made thereto by any persons interested in the site.
(4) Section 5 of the Dublin Reconstruction (Emergency Provisions) Act, 1916, is hereby repealed, and the provisions of this section shall apply in substitution therefor to every house, building and site to which that section would have applied if it had not been repealed.
I want to draw attention to the rather drastic character of this section. It appears to give power to the Corporation that in the event of a building not being proceeded with on any of these sites within a period of two years, they are entitled to go in and sell the interest in the site and take other steps in connection therewith. From one point of view that may be very desirable, but from another point of view it may entail very considerable hardship. Take the case of an owner of adjoining premises who may purchase a site for the purpose of extension of premises. It would be rather unfair to compel him to proceed with that extension of premises within a period of two years if the condition of trade did not warrant such an extension. The alternative in that case would be that he would have to give up the site if he did not proceed with the building, and thereby might injure the development of his business in the future. Now that is a case that might occur easily. In fact it is a likely case to occur in some of our leading thoroughfares, and I would ask that the Minister would consider that aspect of the question, and in fact take powers to himself whereby that particular grievance might be considered, and if he came to the conclusion that the grievance was a real one he might take steps to prevent the compulsory powers under this section being given effect to in such circumstances.
The Deputy may rest assured that this section of the Bill will be administered very conservatively and that I will take steps to see that the legitimate interests of owners are not interfered with in any way.
Can we have an assurance from the Minister to that effect, because possibly I am reading the section rather narrowly at the moment, but I am afraid that in the section as it stands he has not got the power to prevent the mandatory powers that I have mentioned coming into operation.
The section says that the Minister "may unless he is satisfied that the rebuilding or restoration will be completed within a reasonable time make an order." That is, surely, giving the Minister plenty of discretion.
If the Minister thinks that it is sufficiently wide of course it is all right. It is a matter that will require some little consideration, and I think the Dáil will agree that it is a very real grievance and one that ought to be carefully considered.
It is obvious that the effect of the section is that after the expiration of two years the Corporation may apply to have the mandatory powers put into force, and then the Minister will consider the matter.
If the Minister has that power I am satisfied.
He certainly has.
Question: "That Section 6 stand part of the Bill"—put, and agreed to.
Sections 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 were passed and added to the Bill.
SCHEDULE.
PROVISIONS AS TO THE COMPULSORY ACQUISITION OF LAND BY THE CORPORATION.
1.—The Corporation where they propose to purchase or substitute land compulsorily under this Act may submit to the Minister an order authorising the Corporation to put in force as respects the land specified in the order the provisions of the Lands Clauses Acts with respect to the purchase and taking of land otherwise than by agreement and the provisions of this Act with respect to substitution, as the case requires.
2.—An order under this Schedule shall be of no force unless and until it is confirmed by the Minister and the Minister may confirm the order either without modification or subject to such modifications as they think fit, and an order when so confirmed on the expiration of one month from the publication of notice of confirmation shall, save as otherwise expressly provided by this Schedule, become final and have effect as if enacted in this Act; and the confirmation by the Minister shall be conclusive evidence that the requirements of this Act have been complied with, and that the order has been duly made, and is within the powers of this Act.
3.—The order shall be in the prescribed form, and shall contain such provisions as the Minister may prescribe for the purpose of carrying the order into effect, and shall incorporate, subject to the necessary adaptations, the Lands Clauses Acts as defined in this Schedule.
4.—On the submission of the order to the Minister notice of the order shall be published by the Corporation in the prescribed manner, and such notice shall be given both in the locality in which the land is proposed to be acquired or substituted, and to the owners, lessees, and occupiers of that land as may be prescribed.
5.—If within one month after the publication of the notice of the order no objection to the order has been presented to the Minister by a person interested in the land, or if every such objection has been withdrawn, the Minister may, without further inquiry, confirm the order, but if such an objection has been presented, and has not been withdrawn, the Minister shall forthwith direct a local inquiry as to the propriety of confirming the order, and the Corporation and all persons interested in the land and such other persons as the person holding the inquiry in his discretion thinks fit to allow shall be permitted to appear and be heard at the inquiry. Before confirming the order the Minister shall consider the report of the person who held the inquiry and all objections made thereat.
6.—On confirming an order the Minister shall forthwith publish notice of the confirmation, and if within one month after such publication a petition against the order is received by the Minister signed by not less than six persons interested in the land then (unless the petition is withdrawn within the prescribed period) the order shall be provisional only and shall not have effect unless confirmed by the Oireachtas.
A certificate by the Minister that no such petition has been so received, or that every petition so received has been withdrawn, as the case may be, and that the order has taken effect shall be conclusive evidence of the facts certified.
7.—The arbitrator appointed for the purpose of settling compensation shall, in addition to his powers under the Acts incorporated in the order, have power:—
(a) to state his award or any part thereof in the form of a special case for the opinion of the High Court on a question of law under section eight of the Common Law Procedure Amendment Act (Ireland), 1856, and, on the application of the Corporation,
(b) to order works to be executed by the Corporation for the accommodation of adjoining lands or buildings either instead of or in addition to the payment of compensation.
8.—In determining the amount of compensation payable to any person interested in the land, the arbitrator shall have regard to the extent to which any adjoining or neighbouring land or hereditaments in which the same person is also interested may be benefited by the improvements to be made by the Corporation on or in connection with the land taken or any adjoining or neighbouring land.
9.—In construing for the purposes of this Schedule or any order made thereunder, any enactment incorporated with the order, this Act together with the order, when duly confirmed, shall be deemed to be the special Act or the confirming Act as the case requires, the due confirmation of the order to be the passing of the confirmation Act, the Minister to be the confirming authority, and the Corporation to be the promoters of the undertaking, the company, local authority or district council as the case requires.
10.—In this Schedule the expression "Lands Clauses Acts" means the Lands Clauses Acts as amended by section eight of the Public Health (Ireland) Act, 1896:
Provided that in the application of the Second Schedule to the Housing of the Working Classes Act, 1890, so much of Article 26 of that Schedule as
(a) limits the right of appeal to cases where the compensation or price exceeds one thousand pounds, and
(b) requires that leave to appeal shall be obtained from the High Court
shall not have effect.
I move that this be the Schedule of the Bill.
I beg to move Amendment 5, in Rule 2. line 43, to delete the words "they think" and to substitute therefor the words "he thinks."
This is merely the correction of a grammatical error.
Amendment put, and agreed to.
I beg to move Amendment 6, in Rule 6, line 15, to delete the words "one month" and to substitute therefor the words "one week."
In view of the fact that a period of one month is allowed before the Order is confirmed it is considered that a further period of one week within which a petition may be presented against the Order would be sufficient.
I think one week is a rather short time in view of the fact that you have to get the signatures of six persons interested. These persons may be in other countries and the document may have to be sent around a good deal. Even if the persons whose signatures are required are in Ireland it may be difficult to get their signatures in view of the fact that the postal service now only functions once in three days or thereabouts. I think that the time might be extended from one week to a fortnight, and that would be a reasonable compromise.
I am agreeable to have the period changed from one week to a fortnight.
Under the previous rule, Rule 5, a period of one month is given.
Even that may not be sufficient notice. This document will have to be signed by six people. I do not know if the Minister has experience of the difficulty of getting people to sign a document which is sent on to them and of getting them to send it back in time. I suggest that there should be a total period of six weeks, a month in the first instance, and then a fortnight.
at this stage resumed the Chair.
I am prepared to agree to a fortnight.
The amendment, then, is to read: In Rule 6, line 15, to delete the words "one month" and to substitute therefor the words "14 days."
Amendment, as amended, put and agreed to.
Under Rule 7 I notice that the right to call upon the arbitrator to state a case is confined to the Corporation. It appears to me that the right ought to be extended to the other party as well. Under sub-section (a) of Rule 7, I think the words in the last line, "on the application of the Corporation," should be altered to read "on the application of either party."
That does not apply to the stating of a case. There is no limitation as to who may apply for the stating of a case. It says that in addition the arbitrator may order certain works to be done.
Would it not be only fair that whatever rights are given to one party should also be extended to the other party?
I do not think it is necessary to make any change in it. I think both parties have equal powers under it.
The clause would appear to give to the Corporation some right that is not given to the other person.
The words "on the application of the Corporation" apply to (b); (a) gives the arbitrator power to state a case, and perhaps the words "on the application of the Corporation" should come after (b).
If that is the interpretation of it, it puts a different construction on it. Certainly as it stands here it gives certain rights to one party under (a) that are refused to the other party.
It is purely a clerical error.
The Minister can get it corrected in another place if necessary.
I have to make a suggestion as to No. 8, which says that in determining the amount of compensation the arbitrator is to take into account improvements by reason of certain benefits. That is, that if the Corporation by reason of something it does on the adjoining premises makes the other site of more value, the arbitrator is to take that into account. But supposing, on the other hand, something the Corporation does injures the value of the adjoining site, would it not be only fair that the injurious effect would be taken into consideration by the arbitrator in the same way as it is proposed he should take into consideration the question of the beneficial effect of an improvement?
I do not think it is anticipated that anything injurious will be done under the Bill. I do not think we can very well make provision for anything of that sort or assume that we are going to injure property in any way by any change we make.
Supposing a site is of certain dimensions suitable for buildings of a certain class. If, by an encroachment of the Corporation on that site for other purposes, it is reduced down to very small dimensions, it would be very considerably injured from the market value point of view. In considering a proposal of this kind one must carefully legislate for all interests. This specifically mentions that if an improvement is conferred on the site by the Corporation the arbitrator shall take that into account. It can be seen from what I have mentioned that it is quite possible that the value of a site may be injured, and I want that aspect considered.
We will take that into consideration and see if we can suggest some amendment which will meet the Deputy's wishes.
Very well.
It is perfectly obvious that the word "compensation" means compensation for damage done, and that the section simply enables that compensation to be qualified by being given in part to improvement effected on the adjoining site or on that particular site.
Schedule, as amended, put and agreed to.
Title put and agreed to.
Bill ordered to be reported with amendments.