Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Oct 1924

Vol. 9 No. 5

SEED SUPPLY BILL, 1924—SECOND STAGE.

MINISTER for LOCAL GOVERNMENT and PUBLIC HEALTH (Mr. Burke)

I beg to move the Second Reading of the Seed Supply Bill, 1924. During the latter end of last year, and the early months of the present year, representations were made to my Department by various Deputies and influential people down the country, and reports were received from Inspectors of my Department and from the Inspectors of the Department of Agriculture to the effect that serious distress existed in various counties, and that if certain measures were not taken there was a danger of a shortage of seed for the coming year. On these representations our Department provided various schemes for the supply of seed to five counties.

This is in accordance with the procedure of the Department for quite a long time. Up to the year 1908 quite a number of these schemes were adopted and they were validated by subsequent legislation, just as I am doing on this occasion. That was the last time on which validating legislation for the supply of seed potatoes was passed. The Supply of Seed Potato and Oats (Ireland) Act was then passed. This Bill validates the schemes proposed by the Department, and validates the action of the various local authorities in carrying out these schemes and validates the measures adopted by them, being recouped from the individual benefiting by the scheme. It also validates the measures taken, or about to be taken, for securing payment from the beneficiaries under a scheme which took place in 1921 and 1922. There was an Indemnity Act covering those schemes. But I am not quite sure that it completely covers them. For that reason it was thought well to bring it under this Bill. There is nothing involving principle or policy in the Bill. It does not involve any capital expenditure. It is merely validating schemes which enable local authorities to provide loans to needy small farmers for the purpose of seed.

Mr. JOHNSON

The Minister has said that there is nothing involving principle in this Bill. I think there is no doubt the Dáil will agree unanimously to the passing of the Bill, but I think it just as well to say that there is a principle involved in it which is of great importance. It is retrospective legislation, and, whereas, it may have been inevitable in the past to do the work before the authority was given, because of the fact that the authority had to be given in the British Parliament, that no longer applies, and therefore should not be given as an excuse for following the same course.

And if such a proposal had been brought to the Dáil last year as to the necessity for making this grant, it would have been very readily given; there would be no delay of any kind. I think it is just as well to urge that the method that was found necessary in the past ought not to be taken as a precedent for the future, when the circumstances have changed. I think there is general agreement that the principle of retrospective legislation should not be introduced wherever it can, by any possibility, be avoided, and I would hope that even where this kind of thing is required for the future, the Minister responsible, if the Dáil is in session, would come for authority to it before he, as Minister for a Department, proceeds to give this authority. It is on the general principle that retrospective legislation is not desirable, if it can be avoided, that I express this doubt as to the wisdom of using the old precedent which may have been found necessary in the past, where the Department had to go to the British House of Commons afterwards for validation of its action. That should not be taken as a criterion of future action, in view of the change in circumstances.

Mr. BURKE

I quite agree that the principle of retrospective legislation is unsound, but this is one of those cases where you cannot follow out a general principle of that kind. It only occurs in case of emergency. In matters of this kind we are greatly limited by time. We cannot say whether it is necessary to adopt this scheme or not until a few weeks before the planting season starts, or, in many cases, until we are in the planting season, and if the scheme is not provided for before that season ends, which sometimes is not very long, provision cannot be made at all. My experience of the Dáil, and the Seanad, is that even in non-controversial matters of legislation it is very difficult to get a Bill through within less than three weeks, and in many cases that would be sufficient to prevent any good effect developing from these schemes. So I think, in the future, as in the past, it will be necessary in these particular cases to stick to the old precedent.

Question: "That the Bill be now read a second time"—put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 5th November.