I beg to move for leave to introduce the Dáil Supreme Court (Pensions) Bill, 1925. The Minister for Finance will pilot this Bill through its other stages. The Bill is to provide for the outstanding matter of pensions to certain Judges of the Old Dáil Courts who have not been appointed to public positions under the present Government.
DAIL SUPREME COURT (PENSIONS) BILL, 1925—FIRST STAGE.
Could the Minister give us a little more information? It is rather vague just to be informed about certain persons who served and not to be informed of their period of service or the possible amount of their pension. On the face of it, one would think that it is not a Bill that should be allowed to pass its First Stage without further information.
The Bill is in four sections. The first section defines the term "Dáil Supreme Court." Section 2 grants pensions to certain former Judges of the Dáil Courts. It lays down that the Minister for Justice may, with the sanction of the Minister for Finance, grant to any person who held office as a Judge of the Dáil Supreme Court a pension for his life at such rate as the Minister for Justice shall, with the sanction of the Minister for Finance, think proper but not exceeding two-thirds of the annual salary of which such person was in receipt as a Judge of the Dáil Supreme Court immediately before he ceased to hold office as such judge. Every pension granted under this section shall, subject to the provisions of this Act relating to the suspension of pensions and the avoidance of double pensions, be payable to the person to whom such pension is granted as from the date on which the annual salary of such person as a Judge of the Dáil Supreme Court ceased to be paid to him. Every pension granted under this section shall be charged on and payable out of the Central Fund or the growing produce thereof. Judges of the courts that were set up under Dáil Eireann in the days prior to the Treaty were appointed for life on a salary of £700 per annum. Their courts having ceased to exist, the question of making appropriate pension provision arises and this Bill is brought in to that end. The Deputy will, of course, have an opportunity of discussing the matter fully on the Second and other Stages. I trust that this general statement regarding the object of the Bill will be deemed sufficient at this stage.
On the principle that I would like to plumb the depths of the Minister's generosity, at the second stage, I will approve and vote for the First Reading.
Was it to make provision for pensions for these people that the old age pensions were cut?
Would the Minister say why there is discrimination between the judges and registrars and why is no provision made for registrars?
And criers?
Criers are all right. One class should be treated as well as another.
I did not understand that the registrars were appointed for life.
We were not aware of the conditions under which the appointments were made. We did not know how long their life would be. At that time it was of short duration in many cases.
I hope the Minister will table the Act which appointed them for life.
I will table the decision of the Dáil Cabinet.
Would it not be possible for the Minister to get other positions for these people, as the country is overflowing with pensioners?
I think it would have an unfortunate effect if the impression were to go forth as being correct, that if a man held office for two or three months he is entitled to a pension because the Dáil Cabinet for the time being, without the authority of the Dáil, decided that the appointment was made on its authority for life.
The Deputy is mistaken in saying that the Dáil Cabinet had not the authority of the Dáil itself. The times were exceptional, and the Dáil, realising that, delegated to the Cabinet very exceptional powers, so that in making these appointments the Cabinet of the Dáil was not acting in any sense ultra vires. When the Dáil met from time to time, perhaps at intervals of three or four months, all the doings of the interval were laid before it and received retrospective sanction. The Deputy may reserve his fulminations until a later stage of the Bill, when we will be prepared to meet the point which he seeks to establish, that those persons ought not to be taken seriously as judges of a system of courts which were established with the sanction and consent of the Parliament of the country, and which has now been disestablished. If that is the position, then they are entitled to legislation of this kind to provide pensions for them, just as under other legislation and other regulations, pensions have been provided for judges of another system which has been also disestablished.
Can the Minister tell us why they were dismissed?
They have not been dismissed. The courts of which they formed part and under which they functioned have been disestablished.
Leave given to introduce the Bill.
Bill read a First Time. Second Stage fixed for Wednesday, February 18th.