asked the Minister for Finance if he stated on 27th March, 1925, to representatives of the ex-National Forces Civil Servants Association and the Non-Permanent Government Clerks' Association, that the entrance fee for the proposed examination to be held on 30th June, 1925, would be five shillings, and whether he is now in agreement with the regulations published by the Civil Service Commissioners, in which the entrance fee is stated to be £1, and if he is now prepared to amend the entrance fee to the amount mentioned at the interview, which would be more in accordance with the means of the candidates, and more in due relation to fees already adopted in similar past competitions.
CEISTEANNA—QUESTIONS. ORAL ANSWERS. - EXAMINATION FOR CLERICAL OFFICERS.
asked the Minister for Finance if, in view of the statement contained in paragraph 3 of the regulations issued for the proposed examination on 30th June, 1925, that candidates must have served on 1st June, 1925, for not less than six months in a temporary capacity (paid out of public funds) in a Government Department, he will state whether only temporary employees engaged as clerks are eligible, or whether the proposed examination is open to all persons engaged in a temporary capacity, and if permanent writing assistants are eligible to compete.
asked the Minister for Finance if, having regard to his reply to a question of 11th March, 1925, in reference to temporary clerks, and also to his reply to the Non-Permanent Government Clerks' Association on 25th February, 1925, he considers that the syllabus published by the Civil Service Commissioners for the proposed examination on the 30th June, 1925, is in keeping with these statements.
asked the Minister for Finance whether, having regard to paragraph 1 of the Regulations issued for the proposed examination for clerical officers on 30th June, 1925, in which it is stated that an examination will be held in Dublin on Tuesday, 30th June, 1925, and the following days for not less than 135 posts as clerical officers, male and female, in the Civil Service, the vacancies to be competed for by men and women will be allotted later, he will state on what proportion these posts are to be allotted, and whether it is proposed to fill all vacancies for clerical officers in the Civil Service as a result of this examination.
asked the Minister for Finance if he will state the number of permanent posts for clerical officers, male and female, which are now vacant, also the number of such posts which are at present held by temporary officials, and whether, in the event of these temporary officers failing for any reason to qualify at the forthcoming examination, he will state his intentions regarding the filling of these vacancies.
I will answer the Deputy's questions about the forthcoming clerical examination together.
No statement has at any time been made that the fee for this examination would be 5/-. A fee of this amount was charged in the last clerical examination, but the competition was for ex-Army men, most of whom were out of employment, whereas the candidates for the forthcoming examination are nearly all in Government employment. The fee of £1 is the appropriate fee having regard to the charges fixed for other examinations, and it is not proposed now to amend the regulations already made on the point.
Owing to the amount of temporary and fluctuating work necessary at present in many departments, it is not possible to state the number of permanent posts vacant for clerical officers or the numbers of such posts at present held by temporary officers.
Temporary clerks failing for any reason to qualify at the forthcoming examination will be retained on a temporary footing as long as there is work for which their services are required, but they will be liable to replacement by successful candidates in such open competitions for permanent clerical posts as may be held in the future.
The examination referred to is not limited to persons engaged on purely clerical duties and may be entered for by persons engaged in a temporary capacity who possess the necessary qualifications as to length of temporary service, age, etc. Permanent writing assistants recruited by open competition will not be eligible to compete, but members of this class who were originally temporary clerks for six months or more and became writing assistants by limited competition will be eligible.
Vacancies will be assigned according to the order in which the candidates appear on the successful list irrespective of sex of the candidates. The intention is to fill permanently the number of places announced, if so many candidates qualify.
The syllabus for the examination has been drawn up by the Civil Service Commission, who have full knowledge of the type of candidate who will compete, and I have no reason to think that the syllabus prescribed is not in keeping with the announced intentions referred to in the question.
Arising out of the reply the Minister has given to my questions, may I ask him whether it is not a fact that, when a similar examination was held by the British before their departure, the fee was 5/- and not £1?
I am not aware that is so, but I know what fees were given for similar examinations. As a matter of fact, there were fees of 10/- before 1916 for a class of posts lower in grade than the clerical post, that is, the assistant clerk pre-war was an officer of lower grade than the clerical officer, and the fee at that time was 10/-, so I think the fee of £1 now is moderate.
Would the Minister say whether, in the interview he had with members of the ex-National Forces, and other bodies, he gave an assurance that the fee would not be more than 5/-?
I have no recollection of giving any such assurance, and a member of my staff who was present has no recollection of it either. I see no reason for giving such an assurance, and I am positive I did not give it.
Can the Minister say whether the syllabus now put forward by the Commissioners is in accordance with the reply he gave to a question on the 11th March, in which he said the examination will not be of a purely educational character that might be set for candidates just fresh from school, but would be such as will enable people who have been a number of years doing work in offices to compete, with a reasonable chance of success? Does he maintain now that the syllabus is in accordance with that statement?
It is the syllabus the Civil Service Commissioners have drawn up with a view to meeting the requirements stated by me in the Dáil, and I believe it has met these requirements as well as they could be met.
Is the Minister aware that temporary clerks over 55 years of age are not permitted to enter for that examination, and will he give a direction that temporary clerks over that age will be the last to be dismissed? Will he consider the matter?
We will consider the equity of all cases, but I cannot give a direction.
I did not ask the Minister to give an immediate direction.
We will always try to inflict the least possible hardship.
Does the Minister say that a syllabus which lays down that candidates should go up for examination on graphs and Irish is suitable for a candidate over 40 years of age, and who has had considerable experience in the Civil Service?
Yes.
The syllabus at present prepared is one more suitable for schoolboys than for young men, who have in some cases given six or seven years' faithful service in a temporary capacity in Government offices. Will the Minister give any special marks for faithful service and for merit to those men who were engaged in a temporary capacity?
The syllabus is the best the Civil Service Commission could frame. They have given a good deal of attention to the question of the type of syllabus suitable to the various classes of candidates for a couple of years past, and I have no hesitation in agreeing with their judgment in the matter.
Does the Minister consider it fair that writing assistants should be allowed to enter into competition with temporary clerks, seeing that we were assured that the examination would be confined to temporary clerks?
No writing assistants, except those who are temporary clerks, will be admitted.
There seems to be a doubt as to what class this competition is confined to. In the syllabus it states that it is confined to temporary clerks and "Iris Oifigiúil" states it is confined to clerks who have served in a temporary capacity in Government offices. There are a number of these clerks now established who served at one time in a temporary capacity. What I want to know is are they eligible to compete at this examination although they are now in an established capacity?
Yes. I replied to that. The people who are now writing assistants and who were temporary clerks are eligible.
Would the Minister reconsider the question of the entrance fee, as it is a hardship on some of these married men to pay a fee of £1?
No, sir. I think the entrance fee, having regard to the type of the situation and the character of the examination, is a reasonable one.