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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 17 Nov 1925

Vol. 13 No. 5

ELECTRICITY SUPPLY (SPECIAL POWERS) BILL, 1925—REPORT.

I beg to move the following amendments:—

In page 2, Section 2 (2), line 41, to delete the words "by the State" and substitute the words "under statutory authority."

In page 3, Section 3, line 5, to delete the words "by the State" and substitute the words "under statutory authority."

In the Title, lines 12 and 13, to delete the words "by the State" and substitute the words "under statutory authority."

I might explain with regard to these amendments that they are to meet the suggestion made by Deputy Johnson on the last stage. The Deputy objected to the words "by the State" and we offer instead the words "under statutory authority," in the three places where the words objected to occur.

Amendments put and agreed to.

I move: "That the Bill, as amended, be received for final consideration."

I think it would be well, even at this stage, if some explanation was given by the Minister as to the necessity of the Bill having the proviso that these provisions should only apply until a certain and definite date to be fixed. I would like to know whether it is the view of the Minister that, apart from the possibility that at some future time electricity may be supplied by the Shannon, the powers supplied by the Bill are undesirable. If they are desirable, in any case, it seems to me that we ought not to insert this proviso regarding the period, because there is a possibility that the period may be very greatly extended, and if there are evils connected with the proposition to confer these powers upon undertakings then it is well that we should be warned in time and not confer the powers for an unlimited period. I do not know whether the Minister has any information to give to the House as to the period, or probable period, which he has in mind if these powers should be granted to local authorities and to electricity undertakings. If there is any difficulty, or anything undesirable in conferring them for an unlimited period upon local authorities or electricity supply undertakings, we should not press the Bill. Personally, I do not see that there is any great evil; in fact there might be good, but others who may have more knowledge about electricity undertakings might see evils if these powers are to be permanent or extended over a long period.

From a review of the present position in regard to the Shannon Electricity Supply, and the amount of progress that is being made, and is likely to be made, under conditions which the Minister and the Ministry have supported, I think the chances are that the scheme will be prolonged very much beyond the date which was originally contemplated, and, as a consequence, there may be danger in giving these powers for a much longer period than was contemplated when the Bill was drafted. I would like to hear the Minister on that point as to whether he considers that the three year period is sufficient in view of the policy of the Ministry in regard to the rates of wages to be paid on that undertaking, whether he still thinks that the rates of wages are sufficient to induce classes of men to work at the job who are capable of carrying out the work, and whether there is likely to be any longer period than was contemplated occupied in the work of preparing for the Shannon electrification scheme. I want to say that, in my judgment and with my help, the scheme will take much longer to perfect unless the terms and conditions which have been ratified in effect by the Dáil are greatly amended. The Dáil should understand that the period contemplated in this Bill will be very much longer than that originally suggested when the Minister moved the First Reading.

The Deputy has asked two questions. One has been perfunctorily put and the other is the important one. I need not delay over the first. It is not a question of good or evil, but a question of convenience. The Deputy, or other people, may say that there is evil in it inasmuch as to a slight extent it runs counter to certain privileges which statutory undertakings have heretofore provided, but this Bill has been introduced at the suggestion of statutory undertakings likely to be affected and has their approval in principle and in detail, with the exception of a slight amendment, which I hoped to have moved here the other day and which I now expect to move in another place. The second point is the important matter, as to the time the Shannon scheme may take to complete, and as to the progress made or likely to be made, in so far as that progress has reference to an indefinite time not named in this Bill. It is a peculiar thing which I might reveal now in connection with the Shannon scheme, that, during a considerable period when the men were alleged to be on strike, there was really no work for them as, owing to a mistake on the part of a German engineer, the men were called before the time they were needed. The men who were influenced, or who were authorised, to go on strike by certain theorists in this House, have the gloomy satisfaction of knowing that they had been refusing work at a time when it would have been very hard to provide them with it.

How many men left owing to bad grub?

Deputy Davin is a master of unworthy suggestion, but that is about the most unworthy I have ever heard from him. I have no report of any men leaving on account of food conditions. If the men object to the food conditions the remedy is in their own hands. All that is happening in regard to the canteen is this: that we state that there are communal food arrangements under which the men can save a certain amount of money. If they do not like to avail of the communal food arrangements, then they can arrange for their food supplies in any other way that they like.

We will see that they will not get food from this country before long.

The Deputy can state what he wishes, but to put his threat into practice is harder. The building programme of the scheme is not due to start until December, so that any progress or any work actually done is ahead of the time, and any machinery already landed is ahead of the time.

May I say to the Minister——

I am agreeable that the Deputy should state anything he wishes provided I get an opportunity of making my statement afterwards without interruption. If the Deputy will ask me a decent question, not one such as Deputy Davin has put forward, then I will answer it.

You should not allude to the Labour Party as theorists.

I will ask a question and it will be a decent one. I do not think that I ever asked a question in this House that was not a decent one.

I made a comparison in your favour.

Will the Minister give me a truthful answer to the question I am about to ask him?

That is not a good start to make.

Will he say that the mistake which he alleges was made by the German engineers was a deliberate one, in order that the German engineers, assisted by the Government, would have a certain few months in which to play upon the feelings of the men who are half-starved and hungry?

I do not think that it was deliberate.

Well, it is the belief of a great many people.

How can that be when very few people believe me when I say that the work was started ahead of the time. Consequently, I find it hard to credit what the Deputy is now stating with regard to the deliberate views and policy of the contractors and of the Government of playing on certain people's feelings.

Can I put a decent question now?

Impossible!

Did not the Minister state, when the Bill was going through its final stages, that it was hoped that the President would cut the first sod in September? Was that a lie?

Not at all. The idea that lies would be uttered in this House would be abhorrent to me and equally, I am sure, to the Deputy. The cutting of the first sod is a mythical kind of performance that could be staged at any time. Some people stated that I visited Limerick before I went to America and actually cut the first sod myself. I have heard that stated, but as a matter of fact I was not near Limerick at all.

It was said that the Governor-General cut it.

I was asked if the wages were enough to induce the best men. The wages have been sufficient to induce 6,000 men to apply for work, and 600 men are already at work before the time scheduled; and taking these two things into consideration, even although we have in opposition Deputy Johnson's threat, that with his help the programme will take a longer period, and the fact that Deputy Davin, as one might expect, has made a still wilder threat, I have no reason to believe that the scheme will take longer than the three years I projected when I stated that I believed that current would be coming from the Shannon by the year 1929, and that current will be delivered over the 100 kilovolt system in 1928. Consequently this Bill, inasmuch as it deals with Dublin, will last for a lesser period than what Deputy Johnson had in mind when he voted for the First Reading.

And you will get the first electric shock.

Question—"That the Bill, as amended, be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.
Fifth Stage ordered for Tuesday, November 24th.
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