I move:—
Go bhfuil sé oiriúnach Binse do bhunú chun féachaint isteach i ní áirithe go bhfuil deabha agus tácht phuiblí ag baint leis, sé sin le rá, praghsanna miondíola earraí a caithtear go generálta agus modh- anna praiticiúla chun luíoduithe do dhéanamh ortha ag tabhairt aire speisialta don difríocht idir na praghsanna a gheibheann saothrath- oirí agus na praghsanna a íocann caithteoirí. |
That it is expedient that a Tribunal be established for enquiring into a definite matter of urgent public importance, that is to say, the retail prices of articles of general consumption and practical methods of effecting reductions therein, with special regard to the difference between the prices received by producers and the prices paid by consumers. |
This resolution was promised in reply to a question set down by Deputy Cooper on the 18th of last month. That reply was as follows:—
I understand the facts to be as stated in the question, but the latest information available would suggest that the establishment of a Food Council does not entirely solve the problem of reductions in the cost of living.
The Executive Council is, however, prepared to move a Resolution in each House of the Oireachtas to the effect that it is expedient that a tribunal be established for inquiring into a matter of urgent public importance, namely, the cost of certain articles of general consumption.
Should that resolution be adopted by the Dáil and Seanad, it would then be possible to establish a tribunal under the Tribunals of Inquiry (Evidence) Act, 1921, and to confer on it powers to summon witnesses and to examine them on oath and to require the production of documents.
The setting down of this motion to-day is in fulfilment of the promise given in that answer. I am not going to stress here the urgency of this matter. On the same day on which Deputy Cooper put that question, the matter was raised again on the adjournment, in order to get fuller information. I rather indicated the point of view then, that not a great deal in the way of results could be solidly and immediately hoped for from the establishment of this committee. I do not want to say anything more than that. I think the committee should be given the fullest possible powers we can give them under this Tribunals of Inquiry (Evidence) Act to ensure that they get the fullest information. I believe they can get information, but that the securing of that information will lead to the other desired result—a lowering of prices—is a matter about which I cannot prophesy. I have been particular to introduce into the resolution this phrase, "practical methods of effecting reductions therein," because I do not want the result to be that the committee would be got together, a certain number of witnesses heard, a certain amount of evidence sifted, and after that that there should be simply a certain state of facts revealed with regard to a particular commodity or a series of commodities. That evidence might disclose profiteering. It might disappoint those in favour of this Committee and those who hope for immediate results from it by not disclosing profiteering. It might disclose, as I said before, a peculiar system of distribution in the country, which is economically unsound, but the changing of which would be a matter of years. Even if it did disclose profiteering, it might emerge that there is no practical way of dealing with profiteering at a single blow or even over a period. The House, however, will be in the possession of certain information, once this Committee has heard evidence, and once it has recorded its view on the evidence put before it, but I think it is necessary that the tribunal should be asked to give their view as to practical methods of effecting reductions in whatever subjects they may bring within the scope of their inquiry.
I think that that is the answer. I insist on it that that should be there, for if it is not the result will simply be that the Government, or this House, will be handed a certain amount of information and the natural result will be that people will look for an immediate reduction in prices. I foresee two difficulties in regard to this Committee, but I do not want to emphasise them. They might, in some slight way, prejudice the work of the Committee, and I think it should be given every possible chance. The Tribunal of Evidence Inquiry Act, which I have here, was taken over under the general legislation, and it is the only Act applicable to this type of inquiry in this country at present. It gives the fullest power to summon on oath and have documents and other material produced, and it allows for sittings in camera and in public. It is the only possible means of getting evidence with regard to matters of this sort and of collecting information. I have no doubt it can get all the information that can be extracted from people supposed to be in a position to give information. It is about the second part of the work of the tribunal that I have doubts—can the tribunal suggest practical methods of effecting reductions even when it has got the information? The resolution has been framed generally to inquire into the retail prices of articles of general consumption. There may be some objection to that. People may argue that it would be better to set down one item and ask for an inquiry into that, or to choose one or two items and so limit the work of the Committee. I think it better that the Committee should have before it whatever discussion may ensue here, and have the advantage of the points of view expressed by the Seanad and Dáil, as to what the inquiry should be directed, but it would, in my opinion, be unwise to limit the Committee to one or two items. If later it seems to the Dáil and Seanad that the tribunal is setting out in the wrong direction, it would be open to me to bring in a further resolution calling the attention of the Committee specifically to certain matters, but in the beginning I think it would be better to allow the tribunal to be set up and to have it understand what is the task before it.
The tribunal may have to call evidence under this Tribunal of Evidence Inquiry Act to see what is the most important matter which requires immediate attention. Having power to call evidence for that purpose, the tribunal will be in a better position to judge what article of general consumption calls for attack first. I suggest that it would be better to leave it to the tribunal to set out these articles in an order, having determined the matter after hearing evidence. If it is later seen that is wrong, we could amend this and direct attention to certain articles. The question of the personnel of the tribunal is not a matter with which I can deal at present. It is impossible to ask people to serve on the tribunal until it is sure to be set up. It should not be difficult to get it set up, with the exception of the chairman, and that is a matter over which there will be difficulty. The tribunal operates under a technical Act and I think it is almost essential that the chairman should be a lawyer. There will be, I think, a certain amount of difficulty in getting a lawyer to give his services as chairman of the Committee, but it should not be insuperable. I move the motion.