asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state the reasons which led his Department to exempt the employees of the Ennis Urban Council from the provisions of the Unemployment Insurance Acts: if he will state what is the official definition of "permanent" as applied to road-workers, scavengers, etc., under the provisions of these Acts, and if he is aware that eight of the Ennis Urban Council employees were recently dismissed and have not now any claim upon the Unemployment Insurance Fund.
CEISTEANNA—QUESTIONS. ORAL ANSWERS. - ENNIS (CO. CLARE) URBAN COUNCIL EMPLOYEES.
Part 2 of the 1st Schedule to the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1920, as amended by the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1921, places amongst the employments excepted from Unemployment Insurance, employment under any local or public authority where the Minister certifies that the employment is in his opinion, having regard to the normal practice of the employer, permanent in character, that the employed person has completed three years' service in the employment, and that the other circumstances of the employment, in his opinion, make it unnecessary that he should be insured under the Act. The Urban District Council of Ennis applied for a certificate of exception under these conditions and on the representations they made in connection with their application, my predecessor concluded that the conditions for exception were fulfilled, and that it was a case in which a certificate should be granted. In applying for the certificate the Urban District Council of Ennis stated that, amongst the other employees concerned the scavengers and roadmen were permanently employed and would not be dismissed unless they were guilty of misconduct, neglect in the performance of, or unfitness to perform, their duties. In the opinion of the Minister the employment of these men was permanent in character within the meaning of the Unemployment Insurance Acts. I have learned, from information conveyed to my Department by the Deputy a few days ago that eight of the employees of the Council were recently dismissed. The effect of the certificate of exception is that contributions under the Unemployment Insurance Act are not payable in respect of the classes of employees to which it relates, and as the payment of benefit depends on contributions, it follows that the employees covered by the certificate of exception would not be entitled to benefit on becoming unemployed.
Mr. HOGAN
Is the Minister satisfied that when these men's services were terminated, the urban council had no responsibility because of the statement they made that the employment was permanent? Has the Minister any responsibility for exempting from the payment of unemployment insurance the people whom it now transpires were not permanent under a public body?
This is the usual certificate of people who are very glad to have their contributions deducted when they have permanent employment. The representations made to my predecessor convince me, and would convince anyone, that these people should be excepted. These people were quite well aware that no return was made, and that no complaint was made. They are now in an unfortunate position, but it is as much their own fault as that of anyone else.
Mr. HOGAN
Does the Minister hold that it is not the duty of his Department, because there were no complaints made, to investigate whether they were permanent or not?
I have not said that. They knew that the time for complaint was not now, but when the situation was coming to a head.
They knew they were permanent, and the council knew and convinced the Minister that they were permanent, but now they have been declared not permanent, and is there any responsibility on the Minister or on the Local Government Department?
None whatever. These people are put in the class to whom exemptions may be granted. These were regarded as of that class, and on the representations made by the council it is quite clear that they should be excluded.
Can the Minister say whether there is any labour representation on the Ennis Urban council, and whether any representations were made by labour objecting to this?
That would be entering into politics.
Can the Minister say whether the labour representatives on the Council also recognised that they were permanent, and that the Council recognised them as permanent?
Mr. HOGAN
Is the Minister in a position to say what investigations the Department made to ascertain whether these men were permanent or not, and whether the matter was brought before the Urban Council before any statement was made?
The Ennis Urban Council applied for exemption, and I have to take it that there was some investigation prior to that.
Is the Minister aware that the people who made the representations are now out of office, and that there is a Commissioner there? Does that alter the situation, and would it not be incumbent on the Minister to make special inquiries?
Special inquiries so as to cover people who are now unemployed?
Yes.
That cannot be done.