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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 May 1926

Vol. 15 No. 13

INCREASE OF RENT AND MORTGAGE INTEREST (RESTRICTIONS) BILL, 1926—SECOND STAGE.

I do not intend to go into close detail as to my reasons for moving that this Bill be read a second time. Deputies are generally familiar with the circumstances which originally led to the introduction of legislation interfering between the contractual relations of landlord and tenant. During the war the ordinary activities for providing houses, and production generally, were diverted towards making munitions, and, consequently, large numbers of people were brought into towns. In towns the accommodation existing previous to their introduction was limited, and in many towns in Ireland the accommodation would have been much more limited but for the class of house which became vacant owing to the change which took place in social conditions generally. During the war the provision of houses was practically stopped. House building may be said to have stopped in 1914 or 1915, and no real contribution was made in that direction until about the year 1920 or 1921. At that time the cost of providing houses was prohibitive. Unless to people who were more than ordinary well off, the construction of houses at that period, and to some extent since, was out of the question. I would like to stress that particular aspect of the question, namely, that the provision of houses at fairly moderate prices is, perhaps, more important than the regulation of the relations between landlord and tenant. It will be within the recollection of the Dáil that very considerable subsidies have been voted by this House towards the provision of new houses.

The sum which was first given amounted to £1,000,000, and since then sums have been voted to the extent of £600,000. The total number of houses that have since been built is in the neighbourhood of 10,000, but it must be remembered that for four or five years practically nothing was done, and that the houses that have been provided since would only compensate for the numbers that went out of commission during the last twelve years. A considerable number of houses was constructed under the Soldiers' and Sailors' Fund, and I expect that a considerable number still remains to be constructed by means of that agency.

Last year the Dáil passed the Local Government Act, and in that measure there was a provision which entitled houses constructed since the year 1920 to a considerable remission in rates. I mention that to show that the real problem is a shortage of houses. To some extent that shortage is contributed to by the fact that people whose business it was to build houses have been affected very considerably by the Rent Restrictions Act. They have been affected by these restrictions, and they have not concerned themselves with what was formerly their main sphere of activity—namely, the construction of houses. An Act was passed in 1920. That was the first Act dealing with this matter and its course was three years. In June, 1922, we introduced a Bill here further limiting the control of increases of rent and mortgage interest for a period of three years. The fact that these Acts had a three years' life intimated that the subject would be reconsidered at the end of three years in each case. The Bill with which we are now dealing marks a little more strongly the fact that control must ultimately cease.

It will be observed that Section 4 prescribes that up to June, 1927, houses whose valuation is not greater than £52 within the Dublin Metropolitan area, or £35 elsewhere, will be controlled; up to June, 1928, the corresponding figures will be £40 and £30, and up to June, 1929, £30 and £26. The average tenant, so far as this Bill is concerned, learns that control, at any rate, will exist up to 1929, because by far the largest number of people occupy houses of a valuation from £26 to £30. Those occupying houses at higher valuations would not so severely feel an increase of rent which might be occasioned by not continuing the previous Acts in respect of them. The 10 per cent., which was the added or standard rent, is increased in this Bill to 20 per cent. This is a measure which must, I think, be considered in relation to the general problem, and that problem is the shortage of houses. That is the only solution, and, if and when that solution be found, there is bound to arise in connection with its discovery what is called an economic house.

The present cost of providing a house is probably 200 per cent. in excess of what it was pre-war. In other words, a house which cost £200 pre-war costs now, approximately, £600, and that is the real trouble in connection with this matter. It will be at once apparent that people who now require houses are faced with the problem of making up the difference between the pre-war cost and the present cost. The State, as I have said, has come in to shoulder portion of that burden, and the local authorities, in most cases, also share a portion of it. I presume that before the provision in the Local Government Act of last year expires, the Minister for Local Government will consider some remission in respect of houses built after the year 1926 or 1927, or after whatever date is fixed in the Bill. I am, I think, on fairly safe ground when I say that the remission cannot be continued at the same percentage as it is in the Act of 1920. The increase in the bonus from 10 to 20 per cent., although it may mean a few pounds in a particular case, is, I think, a just increase. If there is one particular service in the community more than another which has suffered by reason of the war it is the service for the provision of houses. Practically every other commodity has increased in price very much round the cost of living figure, but in this case the increase amounted to only 10 per cent. or possibly 12½ per cent. on the pre-war income. It will be seen, therefore, that a person having an income from that particular source must have been very severely hit by reason of the limitation of the increase in that case. Sections 4 and 5 of the Bill, read in conjunction with Section 2, which says that the Principal Act, that is the Act of 1923, shall continue until the 24th June, 1926, represent the backbone of this Bill. Section 6 deals with the point covered by a decision in the well-known case of Smith v. Christie, and Section 7 deals with the matter covered in another case, that of Kerr v. Bride. In the case of Smith v. Christie, which was decided in 1922, it was held that where a landlord and tenant agreed as to the rent to be charged—we will assume that the rent agreed on was in conformity with the Act—the increased rent was not valid unless notice of the increase was served by the landlord on the tenant. That was a technicality, and I presume that Parliament when it was passing the Act of 1923, had not in mind that a technicality of that sort should operate to the advantage of one party to the bargain or to the disadvantage of the other. Now, although Section 6 validates the increase made in such circumstances, though no effective statutory notice had been served, it has no retroactive effect in those cases where amounts were recovered by the landlord. The other case which was decided by the House of Lords occasioned very considerable confusion because the lower courts had decided that notice to quit was not necessary. That was a case in which it was decided that before any increase could be granted notice to quit should be served, and much the same sort of thing occurred there.

The Act of 1923 was believed to have covered these points, that is where tenants had paid rents of a permissive amount nothing in the Act of 1923 gave them the right to recover on the technical ground that originally no notice to quit was served. Doubts had been raised, and it is thought well to remove them. Section 7 makes it clear that people cannot avail of a technicality to achieve what most people would regard as unfair and unreasonable, and again in this case a time limit is placed to prevent retroactive effects. Briefly the Bill provides for a continuance of the 1923 Act for three years only as regards houses whose valuations do not exceed £30 in the metropolitan area, and £26 elsewhere. Larger houses will be controlled for a shorter period, some for two years and some for one year. Premises with a valuation exceeding £52 in Dublin, or £35 elsewhere, will be outside the scope of the Bill altogether. The other point in the Bill is that the bonus, which was originally 10 per cent., is now increased to 20 per cent. I think it will be admitted that a real attempt has been made to deal with this question apart from any leanings towards one side or the other. The original leanings were certainly against the landlord. The necessities of the time demanded that it should be so, but we must assume that within the next few years the provision of houses will render the situation less difficult to solve in 1929 when the legislature will have to consider this matter again. I accordingly move.

One cannot advise the rejection of the Second Reading of this Bill inasmuch as its main purpose is to continue beyond June of this year the Rent Restrictions Act. Therefore, one will have to support the principle of the Bill as indicated, but the restrictive provisions cannot command the same assent. Taking the last sentence of the President's speech, I understand that where the obligation arises, as far as the Bill goes, the Oireachtas will have to take into consideration in 1929 the situation afresh, because the Bill contemplates perfect free trade in house building and in the extortion of rents after 1929. Except for the evils that would arise from the operations of this Bill there is no obligation upon the Oireachtas to consider the situation at that time, but I think the evils which will certainly arise between now and 1929 will necessitate the Dáil, in that year, legislating to continue the restrictions for a much longer time unless something which one cannot foresee takes place, and that is a very great increase in the number of houses that will be built in the three years.

I would like to have from the President some information as to the change in the situation regarding the supply of and demand for houses. For instance, if we had knowledge of the number of houses that are to let, or for sale, and the number of houses that are unoccupied under these various valuations, we would then know how we could justify the modifications of the present law. The Bill might be described, I think, as making certain an increase in the cost of living level. As to one class of houses, there is to be freedom to extort what rents can be obtained after June, 1927. A valuation of £52 makes sure that it will only affect the wealthier tenants in the city, and the less wealthy in the country; that is to say, that £52 valuation bars out what might be called the wage-earning section of the community, but in the environs of Dublin city, and in Dublin city, there is a very considerable number of people who are living in houses beyond their means, or who are straining their means to pay the rents of these houses because they could not obtain cheaper houses. If the pressure continues even they will be penalised severely under this Bill after 1927. So far as I have been able to observe, there are not many houses being built at present to meet that particular kind of demand— a demand for houses of £52 valuation— but as we come into 1928 and 1929, unless we can make sure that there will be a very rapid increase in the number of houses available, we will find ourselves in the position we found ourselves in at the end of the war, when there was a demand for houses which could not be supplied.

As will be generally admitted, if you have an insistent demand for a commodity which is not available, the price for that which is available rapidly rises, and people under the stress of family necessity, economic needs of a domestic kind, family requirements, or a sense of decency, will strain economic resources to pay a rent much above what they can rightly afford out of their income. We are going to have that particular strain put on the population, particularly on those who live in houses under £30 valuation after 1929. Unless we can be assured that the supply of houses will somewhat approximate to the demand, the likelihood is that after this Bill becomes operative you will have rack rents in vogue, and people obliged to pay a much bigger proportion of their present income in rentals to house owners. The general discontent which will ensue can only be met by a general increase in wages and incomes, so we contemplate as a direct result of this Bill the certainty of a demand for increased incomes to meet the requirements of landlords and house owners. I think that before any modification of the Rent Restrictions Act is made you should be quite satisfied that there will be a sufficient supply of houses. I would say, notwithstanding the provisions of this proposed Act, that when we come to 1929 it is almost as certain as anything we can contemplate in politics that there will be a necessity for a further continuance of this Rent Restrictions Act. No Parliament will allow, if I understand the situation, the position to be continued or created that existed some time ago, when because of the insistent demand for houses and the shortage of supply people were obliged to pay rapidly increasing rents due to competition.

I know that house owners have some cause for grievance and complaint, but the remedy that is sought to be applied is going to injure a very much larger number of people than those who will be remedied by the provisions of the Bill. Apart from the future, and the assured increase in the cost of living that will come upon the mass of the people in 1929, we have the immediate addition to the cost of living of the citizens of those towns who are living in houses under £30 valuation, and even people who live in houses under £52 valuation—an immediate increase in the cost of living of 10 per cent. on the standard rents. I hope that is recognised.

There has been a general decline in the rates, and that decline in the rates will, more or less, compensate for the increase of rent that we are now asked to put upon people. If that is the contention, then I think we have to insert in this Bill a provision which will impose an obligation under a penalty upon these house-owners that they shall certainly give to the tenants any benefit due to a reduction in rates. It is a fact, though it may be the fault of the tenants in not making application to the courts, that the decrease in rates has not been passed on to the tenants.

I suppose in the majority of cases that would be true, and we have the right, I think, to insert in the Bill a provision which would make it penal for the landlords to continue to draw the sums they have been drawing, if there has been a decrease in rates; that is to say, that the tenant shall get the benefit of any decrease in rates that takes place in any of the towns. The effect of the Bill is to add to the cost of living of all tenants of houses under £52 valuation, and it contemplates a much bigger increase in the cost of living as regards the great mass of the people after 1929, the only possible offset being that we shall have ensured a supply of houses sufficient to meet the demand which is still very insistent throughout the city. As I said, I cannot oppose the Second Reading, but I think many of the provisions of the Bill will have to be rigorously opposed during the committee stage.

The Bill that is introduced to extend the period of the operation of the Act in connection with restrictions of rent gives some relief in directions where relief is really required. When the Rent Restrictions Act was put into operation I do not think any of us would contend that a necessity did not exist for a Bill of its kind under the exceptional conditions then prevailing. As a piece of legislation, while giving relief to a vast number of people, it has produced a very grave sense of injustice and its operation has inflicted very great injustice on many people. In so far as this Bill seeks to remedy these grievances, I think it ought to meet with universal support.

Like other legislation well meant and well intended, it has created a feeling of profiteering amongst the very class of people it was intended to protect. It has thrown back, if it has not altogether destroyed, any incentive to house building as an investment. In that way it has created the very situation that Deputy Johnson deplores, in which no man with any sense is going to build houses and let them to tenants. It has established in its operation a principle of absolute confiscation; a man loses all control, whether he would exercise it rightly or wrongly, over his own property.

The Act has created a state of affairs that has not been good for the building trade or the housing problem, nor yet has it been good for the morals of the people. I need not detail the very serious grievances of people, nor need I refer to the injuries inflicted on those who have house property as an investment. While there are a great many exceptions, a tremendous number of people have thrived on the position created, both technically and generally, by reason of the provisions of the Act now coming to a close. In so far as the new Bill proposes to deal with that position, I think it is only doing justice to a limited extent.

Deputy Johnson raises the question of housing accommodation generally and he says the available accommodation is insufficient for the needs of the people. That is a big question and it presents a very big problem. I venture to suggest that that problem would be nearer solution if the Act which is now being extended under this Bill had been dealt with at an earlier stage. The Ministry here are following the example of the Ministry on the other side of the water; there is, in fact, a general effort to deal with the housing situation. The question of subsidy is raised, and the whole community are called upon to provide a subsidy for new houses under a certain valuation. I think that in substance is wrong, although one cannot imagine that the shortage of houses could be relieved in any other way, under the circumstances existing. You could not possibly expect people who had experience of owning house property to enter enthusiastically into any scheme of house building.

The Act has undermined the security one would like to feel in connection with investments, and under it were singled out the owners of house property for isolated treatment. I would like to say that I consider the Bill we are now presented with as tardy legislation. It is in the right direction and, unlike Deputy Johnson, I wish to visualise that in the year 1929, in surveying the general situation at that time, the need for this sort of legislation would have passed; at all events, I hope it will be recognised in the interval that it is desirable the need should have passed and that also the building of houses must be put on an economic basis so that the industry can be carried on as in the past when a man would build a house as an economic proposition and at an economic price.

The question Deputy Johnson raised in regard to the cost of living cannot be dealt with by doing, as he says, justice to one part of the community at the expense of injustice—grave injustice—to another part of the community. I do not so much deplore the position created in connection with the actual question of rent. All over the place you have the state of affairs existing where a man would have less grievance if he were restricted in the amount of rent but had reasonable control over his own property. He has not had that, and that goes to the foundation of the great grievance in this whole matter. A man's property passes out of his possession, and he has no more control over it to-day than if he never owned it. How can you expect any person to look on an investment of that kind as a reasonable investment? How can you expect a man to enter with any confidence into building operations when legislation on that basis lasts? I say it is impossible. A man would want to be a philanthropist to expend money in that direction.

In the past, some time before the war and before this sort of legislation was introduced, the provision of houses formed an attractive proposition to a great many people. It was considered a sound proposition to put your money into brick and mortar. You had a definite property there and that form of investment was more attractive to many people; they preferred investing their money that way than by putting it into stocks and shares and other investments. To-day all that is wiped away.

The Dáil will do more good in the direction of solving the housing problem by reinstituting confidence in building investments. I am afraid it can be done only very gradually. It will take some time before the evil effects of the Rent Restrictions Act are forgotten by the people. Deputy Johnson says this will raise the cost of living. We have to face that in the same way as we have to face the rise in the cost of bread, butter and flour. Do not allow that idea to be imported into the considerations of this Bill or else you will be following a false line.

When we come to consider this Bill in Committee, possibly there will be amendments submitted. Deputy Johnson will have amendments safeguarding his interests. I hope, for the sake of many people who have suffered so much injustice under the Rent Restrictions Act that an effort will be made to extend further the relief given in this Bill.

I share Deputy Hewat's hope, and I go further in that hope, not merely that an effort will be made to put down amendments, but that an effort will be made by Deputy Hewat himself to put down amendments, because I have almost as many amendments on my hands as I can adequately attend to. I want to deal with this matter somewhat more closely and specifically than Deputy Hewat has done. Deputy Johnson laid down the thesis that this Bill was imperfect because it did not secure that the tenant should get the benefit of any reduction in the rates. If that is a general proposition, working both ways, I am disposed to agree with Deputy Johnson that the tenants should not only get the benefit of a reduction in the rates, but that they should also pay a proportion towards any increase in the rates. In other words, that the rates should be charged upon the tenants and not the landlords. That, I think, is a sound proposition, because it would lead to an increase in civic spirit.

At present far too many people, whose rates are included in their rent, take no trouble with, and do not even vote at municipal elections, and take no interest in the administration of their city or their township. The result is unnecessary extravagance. If, then, the proposition is as I have outlined, I agree. If on the other hand he puts it that the tenants should get the benefit of every reduction, and the landlord should shoulder every increase, I think that is hardly a fair suggestion. A good portion of the present-day tenants were tenants when the rates were very much lower than they are now. Did they ever suggest that they should pay a portion of the increase? I doubt it.

Now I turn to Deputy Johnson's point about the increase in the cost of living. He knows the result of the previous rent restriction measure has been that everything else has increased in cost, except rent, broadly speaking. I have the last figures available to us —the contrast between July, 1924 and 1925. In that period bacon went up 14½ per cent., bread went up 15.7 per cent., boots went up 10.4 per cent. That was before, and not as a consequence of, the tariff that was put on boots. Rent went up .2 per cent. Looking through the cost of living figures as a whole you find the movements of rent upward or downwards are so small as to be represented by a decimal point only compared with the movements in other matters. The landlord is not immune from the cost of living; he has to live like other people; he does not live on air; he has to feed and clothe himself, and he has to pay labour not for building, because speculative building has ceased, but for repairs; he has to have a certain number of men as a rent-collecting staff. They demand a great deal more in salary now than they did in 1914.

Is the proposition that Deputy Johnson put this: That everybody else —the bacon merchant, the bootmaker, the baker and the labourer—are entitled to charge far more for their services than in previous years, and that only the man who invests his savings in building houses must accept the same rent now as in former years? If the cost of living has gone up make it go up fairly for everybody. I accept that principle with regard to labour. I do not see why you should single out one class, not mainly a class of big capitalists, but a class very often of men who are, perhaps, members of trades unions, because in pre-war days the mechanic who had effected savings, the man in a superior position, the engine driver, and so on—invested these savings in house property. You take that class and say the cost of living may go up, the profiteer may profiteer, the labourer may demand increased wages, and the clerk an increased salary, but because a man owns a house and lets it the cost of living for him must never be increased. I do not observe the justice of that.

As a matter of fact I am one of those fools, holding a number of houses, who has not increased the rent since 1914, except in the case of a barrack for the Gárda, and I increased that first of all on the R.I.C.

Turning from Deputy Johnson to the Bill, I accept the principle of gradual decontrol. Where you are dealing with a matter of grave importance that affects the daily lives of the individuals, I think you should proceed gradually.

I should like to ask the President on what basis the figures in Section 4 of this Bill are fixed. Is there any scientific ground-work for definitely taking the amount of £52 in Dublin Metropolitan area and £35 elsewhere as the standard rent or valuation? Whichever is the higher the owner will be hit on. If it is a low valuation, and a higher standard rent, the landlord will be kept to the standard rent and vice-versa. I do not see the justice of the discrimination between the farthest parts of the Dublin Metropolitan area, such as Killiney, and other urban districts like Cork, Waterford, and Limerick. It seems to me there may be some justification for including Cork, Waterford and Limerick or restricting the section to the more immediate districts within a half-hour's journey of the centre of the city.

In the case of Dublin Metropolitan area, Dublin city has been revalued within the last twelve years, so that the valuation there is fairly certain. In the case of the suburban districts round Cork, and so on, the general valuation must be taken into account before that re-valua-tion. In the case of the suburban areas round about Dublin, houses have been, in the main, valued within the last forty or fifty years, and the valuation appears of an up-to-date character. The valuation can then be taken as probably the best index of a standard to go on. It is not the standard rent, it is the annual valuation, and I think that is the safest method we could have adopted.

How does that apply to Waterford, where the revaluation is now in progress? I am open to correction, but I understand that Waterford is being re-valued.

I am not sure; the figures have not been published.

I cannot challenge the President. If he is not sure I cannot be sure. I now come to a point on which I want to lay emphasis. The one great omission in this Bill is that it fails to deal with the case of subtenants. The previous Rent Restriction Act created a privileged class of what I might call head tenants. Once they acquired a tenancy it was a legal tenancy under the Rent Restrictions Act, but not a legal tenancy such as a tenancy under the Irish Land Acts, but once they acquired that tenancy it was permitted to them to sub-let at a very much higher rent than the legal rent. I heard of a case, in the suburbs of Dublin, in which the legal rent of a house with six or seven rooms was £1 per week, yet two of these rooms were sub-let at 18/- per week.

For the remaining four or five rooms a rent of only 2/- per week is paid. There is no doubt whatever that there is a substantial grievance on the part of the landlord when he sees a tenant who, without his consent, acquired certain rights under these Acts, taking advantage of the position that was established in order to profiteer, which, I think, is not too strong a word. He takes advantage of the shortage of houses to sub-let a portion of his premises at a rent out of all proportion to the rent he himself is paying. I do not think that is fair, and I do not think it is just. I admit it is not easy to deal with. Since I got the Bill, I have been trying to draft an amendment or a new section and, not having the advantage of the help the Government has in the shape of draftsmanship, I have not, so far, succeeded. If there is sufficient period allowed between Second Reading and Committee Stage, I may be able to get my amendment formulated. My present intention tends towards a section which will exempt from this Bill any house in respect of which sub-letting has been carried on.

I urge the Government to look into this matter before Committee Stage, because it is a substantial injustice. The President admitted that in the past the scales were weighted against the landlord. The landlord—particularly in town districts—of this class of property, bringing in less than £1 per week, is not generally a big man. He is a man probably who would prefer to put his savings in bricks and mortar where he could see them than to put them into a gold mine at the ends of the earth. Probably he was wise in the latter end. But almost certainly he is repenting of his wisdom. I do urge the President not to overlook, when we are dealing with this matter at a later stage, the last point I have made.

This measure would not require to be introduced if we could provide houses now at what is called an "economic rent." If it were possible to get houses produced at an economic rent, there would be no necessity whatever for this measure. That is the real trouble. Between the two people concerned, or any number of people concerned in the production of those houses, there is a certain amount of blackmailing going on on the State. The State has got to pay a subsidy, and then the subsidy leaves the tenant in approximately this position, that he has got to pay twice the price he paid pre-war for a house. That is certainly an unhealthy position, and it is a position that no amount of condemnation of this measure, or of its demerits, is going to get us away from. The real problem is to produce more houses. If those houses were produced at an economic rent, there would be no necessity for this measure or any other measure to bolster up a peculiar situation such as we have.

Deputy Johnson concerned himself, first of all, with the increased cost of living in respect of houses exceeding £52 valuation. Out of approximately 2,586 houses in one suburb of Dublin, 41 houses have a valuation exceeding £52. In another suburb, where there are 7,559 houses, there are 239 houses with a valuation exceeding £52. Of two urban districts in the country, which I have taken, in one case, out of 1,156 houses, the number whose valuation exceeds £35 is 10; in the other case, out of 1,950 houses, 30 houses have a valuation exceeding £35. That shows that the number of houses exceeding £52 valuation is not considerable in two urban districts in the country, and in two of the most important suburban districts around Dublin.

Would the President give us the figures regarding houses between £30 and £40 valuation?

In the lot numbering 2,586, which I gave a moment ago, the number of houses exceeding £30 in valuation but not exceeding £40, is 176; the number exceeding £40 but not exceeding £52, is 49. As regards the lot of 7,559 houses the number of houses not exceeding £30 in valuation is 5,804; exceeding £30 but not exceeding £40, 1,098; exceeding £40 but not exceeding £52, 418.

As regards the case made for the cost of living, I have not got the figures regarding suburban districts, but I will take the city of Dublin as a case in point. In the year 1924-25, the rates in the city of Dublin were 19/2 in the £; in 1925-26 the rates were 17/2 in the £, and for the present year the rates are 16/-. I take the year 1924-25 because that was the year after the passing of the 1923 Act. If I were to take the previous year, 1923-24, I would have a much better case. I am taking it now that there has been a reduction in the three years of 3/2 in the £. Take a house with a poor law valuation of £15. The rates in respect of that house in 1924-25 were £14 7s. 6d. The rates in 1926-27 were £12. The difference is £2 7s. 6d. It is calculated that the 10 per cent. increase in standard rent would be £3 0s. 10d. The actual increase in the case of that particular house would be 3d. per week and 4d. at the end of the year. I do not think that will add very considerably to the cost of living and I think it is fair. A person, even with the Government subsidy, the subsidy from the municipality and the remission of rates which he gets under last year's Act, would still be in a relatively worse position than the person in that house with the addition of 13/-. It is only fair that that should be taken into consideration. I will take the particular case of a house with a valuation of £33. In 1914 the rent was £60. The rates amounted to £18 17s. 5¼d. The standard rent is £41 2s. 6d. For 1926-27 the rates are £26 8s., the total repairs increase, £4 2s. 3d, and the 10 per cent. increase, £4 2s. 3d. The rent for 1926-27 is £75 15s. 0d. The landlord only got £41 2s. 6d. in 1914, and this year, granting he got the allowance for the repairs and the ten per cent. increase, he gets £45 2s. 3d.

The case mentioned by Deputy Cooper is a case very difficult to cover. It is a case of profiteering. I do not know if it would be possible for any landlord to have profiteered to the extent that certain tenants have profiteered in these cases—that is, in cases that were brought to my notice. There is the other case, where a tenant is in possession and approaches the landlord with a view to a sale.

Does the President recognise that the fact that there is such a demand as allows profiteering to take place shows the danger of any remission of these restrictions?

In a case of that sort you have to consider that the remission of these restrictions, if it results as I have stated, is not an expensive remission on the person in occupation. We have to consider other people who have no houses, who are trying to get them, and what the incidence in the cost of living is in respect of them. I should like to know if he has taken that into account. The real position is that the unfortunate people who have no houses are being blackmailed owing to the cost of building houses now. It is no advantage to anyone that the cost is so high. It is high, but it has gone down during the last three or four years. A house that cost approximately £750 in 1922 can be built in Dublin now for a little less than £600. That is a considerable reduction, But there is room for more. That is not a question to be settled here. It is not a question to be settled by abuse from one side to the other. It requires help from everyone. In the Press recently I observed that we have been charged with not solving the housing problem. I should like to know if the person who wrote that has anything in his mind that would solve it.

The responsibility is yours.

The responsibility is widespread. That is admitted.

Take away the subsidy.

I am afraid that would be worse. It is not a question that can be solved by any particular Party. It is no Party question. I was about to refer to another case besides that mentioned by Deputy Cooper, where a tenant is in possession of a house with a valuation of £33. The standard rent is £41. The tenant approaches the landlord and asks him if he will sell. The tenant may be going to leave. The landlord knows he is in receipt of £45 yearly, standard rent. The tenant can certainly get a good bargain from the landlord, and, having done so, can put up the house for sale and make £100 or £200. That is not fair. Landlords have complained very bitterly of that particular practice. I have heard of one case recently from a man in the building line where a house was bought by the tenant for £600.

May I say that that has become a regular procedure on the part of tenants now.

The tenant sold that house within a fortnight for £800. He made a profit of £200 within a fortnight. That is not justice. This is an attempt to deal with a problem that is pressing, difficult, and almost unsolvable; that is the problem of housing for our people. I do not know if there is any solution except one to bring down the cost of building.

Question—"That the Bill be read a Second Time."

Put and agreed to.

Bill read a Second Time.

Deputy Cooper asked for a long interval between this stage and the Committee Stage. It is rather pressing that this Bill should pass before the expiration of the other measure, and if Deputy Cooper were not ready with amendments on the Committee Stage, I suppose we could undertake to consider them on the Report Stage. If that would meet the Deputy I would like to have the Committee Stage fixed for next Tuesday.

I think my amendment would be so pruned that it would require to be reconsidered on the Report Stage. I think I can get it into shape before next Tuesday. I realise that time is limited, and I will not oppose the President's suggestion.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 18th May.
Sitting suspended at 6.30 p.m. and resumed at 7.15 p.m.,AN CEANN COMHAIRLE in the Chair.
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