ORDUITHE AN LAE—ORDERS OF THE DAY. - MONEY RESOLUTION.—AGRICULTURAL CREDIT BILL, 1927.

The Dáil went into Committee on Finance.

I notice that this resolution has been omitted from to-day's Order Paper.

Yes, but it was on the Order Paper, I think, for several days.

It was left out by inadvertence to-day.

I move:—

Chun críche aon Achta a rithfar sa tSiosón so chun socrú do dhéanamh chun Cuideachta do bhunú agus do chlárú ag a mbeidh sé mar phríomhchuspóir cáirde do thabhairt do dhaoine atá ag gabháil do thalmhaíocht agus do ghnóthaí bhaineas le talmhaíocht, chun a údarú go dtabharfidh an Stát urraíochtaí maidir le capital na Cuideachtan san agus le hurrúis a tabharfá sí amach, agus chun socrú do dhéanamh i dtaobh nithe áirithe eile bhaineas leis an gCuideachtain sin, agus chun a chur in usacht d'fheirmeoirí airgead d'fháil ar iasacht ar mhorgáistí ar a stoc feirmeoireachta agus chun oibriú agus éifeacht na morgáistí sin do rialáil, go bhfuil sé oiriúnach a údarú:—

I. Go gcuirfar de mhuirear ar an bPrímh-Chiste no ar a thora fáis—

(a) Gach airgead is gá in aghaidh:—

(i) íocaíochtaí a dhéanfidh an tAire Airgid ar scór scaireanna a thógfá sé de chuid na Cuideachtan san fén Acht san,

(ii) suimeanna is gá don Aire Airgid d'íoc leis an socrathóir i gcríochnú gnótha na Cuideachtan san,

(iii) suimeanna roimh-íocfidh an tAire Airgid chun no mar chabhair chun dividenda d'íoc le baill den Chuideachtain sin,

(iv) suimeanna thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha fé aon urraíocht a thabharfidh an tAire Airgid uaidh maidir le Deimhnithe muirir a thabharfidh an Chuideachta san amach;

(b) colann agus ús aon urrúsanna a thabharfidh an tAire Airgid amach chun iasacht d'fháil fén Acht san.

II. Go n-íocfar amach as airgead a sholáthróidh an tOireachtas aon chostaisí fé n-a raghfar ag cur na bhforálacha den Acht san in éifeacht a bhaineann le Clár de Mhorgáistí Airnéise do bhunú agus do choinneáil ar siúl.

That, for the purpose of any Act of the present Session to make provision for the formation and registration of a Company having for its principal object the giving of credit to persons engaged in Agriculture and businesses ancillary to Agriculture, to authorise the giving of guarantees by the State in relation to the Capital of such Company and securities issued by it, and to provide for certain other matters relating to such Company, and to facilitate the borrowing of money by farmers on mortgages of their farming stock, and to regulate the operation and effect of such mortgages, it is expedient to authorise:—

I. The charge upon the Central Fund or the growing produce thereof of—

(a) all moneys required to meet:—

(i) payments to be made by the Minister for Finance in respect of shares of such Company subscribed for by him under such Act,

(ii) sums required to be paid by the Minister for Finance to the liquidator in the winding up of such Company,

(iii) sums to be advanced by the Minister for Finance for or towards the payment of dividends to members of such Company,

(iv) sums which become payable under any guarantee given by the Minister for Finance in relation to Certificates of charge issued by such Company;

(b) the principal and interest of any securities issued by the Minister for Finance for the purpose of borrowing under such Act.

II. The payment out of moneys to be provided by the Oireachtas of any expenses incurred in carrying into effect the provisions of such Act relating to the establishment and maintenance of a Register of Chattel Mortgages.

The Agricultural Credit Bill is designed to give effect to the recommendations of the Banking Commission. The Agricultural Credit Corporation is being organised as a limited liability company. The charges that may fall upon the Central Fund in respect of the liability which the State will undertake, in regard to this Company, are set out in the resolutions under four headings. Under the first heading, we have the payments that the Minister for Finance will make in respect of the shares of the Company subscribed for by him under this Act. The amount the Minister will have to provide under that heading will depend upon the response of the banks and the response of the public, in the first instance. Two hundred thousand shares will be offered to the banks, and if the whole of that amount is taken up by the banks the remaining 300,000 will be offered to the public. If less than 200,000 be taken up by the banks, then the amount by which the subscription of the banks is less than 200,000, plus the 300,000, will be offered to the public. The remainder will then be taken up by the Minister for Finance. It is easy to see what the maximum requirement will be, but what the requirement in actual fact will prove to be is quite a different matter.

Under the next heading of paragraph I, the Minister is to provide any amounts required by a liquidator to meet the Company's liabilities in the winding-up of the Company. Under the next heading there will be liability in respect of dividends. The dividend is limited to five per cent., and it is anticipated that the Company will be able to provide that dividend out of profits. However, it might happen, as a result of a series of bad agricultural years, or something of that nature, that the Company would fail to earn profits, and might not be in a position to provide dividends. Under the fourth heading, there is a liability by the Minister in respect of the certificates of charge. Care will be taken to see that the certificates of charge are backed by adequate securities. There is an amendment down which proposes that not merely should they be backed by first mortgages on land but that other securities which the Minister would regard as satisfactory should be permitted as well. As the Minister for Agriculture said, in moving the Second Reading of the Bill, the Company would be seriously tied up if it could only issue certificates of charge against first mortgages on land. It would never be able to issue certificates of charge to the extent that is contemplated in the Bill and that would be required to meet the agricultural credit needs of the country. Consequently, it is proposed by an amendment that other security should be permitted, including, perhaps, charges on the general assets of a creamery, personal guarantees and, to some extent, even chattel mortgages, though the use of chattel mortgages for these particular purposes would involve great care on the part of the Minister in issuing a guarantee of any certificate of charge, and great care on the part of the trustees. The other sub-head of charge refers to the payment of principal and interest on any securities issued by the Minister for Finance for the purpose of borrowing under the Act. That explains itself. There will be a minor charge in providing for the establishment and maintenance of the register of chattel mortgages. That will not be a heavy expense. It will be particularly light in the earlier years, because it will probably take the people a considerable time to get used to chattel mortgages. It is probable that, in the first few years, the number of chattel mortgages registered will not be high.

Are we in order in proceeding with this motion? It is not on the Order Paper to-day. I have listened to the Minister for Finance without having the resolutions before me. Are we strictly in order in proceeding with it in the circumstances?

We are in order. It is well known to Deputies that a Money Resolution must be moved to cover expenditure under a Bill before the Committee Stage of such Bill. This resolution was on the Order Paper for a number of days. The technical objection, that it does not appear on the Order Paper to-day, is surely not valid, in all the circumstances. The Deputy, I presume, was aware that the Committee Stage of the Bill was being taken to-day.

I do not want to press the objection. I raised it merely as a matter of procedure. I merely wanted to know whether or not it was strictly in order to proceed with the resolution.

It is strictly in order. An inadvertence in regard to the Order Paper cannot prevent us transacting the business to be done.

It does not prevent us?

It could not prevent us. No clerical error or inadvertence could prevent us transacting the business we set out to transact. This resolution has been fixed for to-day for quite a long time.

Resolution put, and agreed to.
The Dáil went out of Committee.
Resolution reported and agreed to.
The Dáil went into Committee.