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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 Jun 1927

Vol. 20 No. 3

IN COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - VOTE 57—RAILWAYS.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £28,758 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar crioch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1928, chun íocaíochtanna fé Acht na mBothar larainn, 1924, fen Tramways and Public Companies (Ireland) Act, 1883, etc.; agus chun crícheanna eile a bhaineann le hIompar in Eirinn.

That a sum not exceeding £28,758 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1928, for payments under the Railways Act, 1924, the Tramways and Public Companies (Ireland) Act, 1883, etc., and for other purposes connected with Irish Transport.

This vote is practically all covered by statute passed by the Oireachtas, and the headings show a decrease. Most of the decreases are explained under the sub-heads. There are two items that are still in the state of being wound-up, or at least consideration is being given as to whether or not they should be wound up. Items C and E may be taken together. C has reference to special railway undertakings, and E refers to payments in respect of the acquisition of land for colliery railways. B payment is supposed to be sufficient to supply all outstanding sums, so that item next year should disappear from the Estimates, and the same remark would apply to C. Both of these items should disappear, for under the Railway Act these lines were to have been absorbed in the Great Southern Railways, either by agreement or by a decision of the Tribunal. That matter will come up for settlement in the autumn. As to item F, Sligo and Belmullet Steam Service, it will probably be remembered that there was a long discussion on that item the first time it made its appearance on any Vote in my Department. The amount we ask for this year to make good the deficit in the working of the service has been brought down to £200. Definite consideration is being given at the moment as to giving up the steamer service altogether. I would like Deputies from the areas concerned to give attention when they go to their constituencies to the use made of this service. We find that it is not supported, and that a rival service is supported instead. Indeed, there is certain evidence that one of the persons who professes to be mainly concerned in the upkeep of this service is importing all his goods by another service. There is good reason to believe that the service will disappear unless a better case can be made for its retention.

Has the Minister dealt with sub-head D, advance to the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway Company?

No. I am leaving that out, as it is part of the special Supplementary Estimate, which is not being taken to-day.

Do I understand that I will have an opportunity of raising this question and receiving information on it again?

Mr. WHITE

I might remind the Minister that this Estimate was brought up on a Friday last year, and was not discussed and investigated as it should be. If the Minister is unable to take this vote now will he take it on Wednesday ?

Is the Deputy asking to have the Supplementary Estimate taken next Wednesday?

The question is whether the Supplementary Estimate for an advance to the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway shall be taken on a day convenient to the Deputies from Donegal? Will the Minister undertake to do that?

Mr. WHITE

That satisfies me.

With regard to item A—payment to the Great Southern Railways under the Railways Act, 1924, of £48,688—I want to draw the attention of the Dáil to certain injustices perpetrated and unfair discrimination exerted as a result of the unification of the railway systems of the Saorstát. I know that certain officials were retired on pensions altogether out of proportion to the services rendered. But in addition to that, the unification brought about or resulted in the dismissal of many railway workers. The number mentioned by Deputy Davin is three thousand. I think that is an underestimate, if anything. Now for the information of those Deputies who do not understand the term, I may explain that "railway shopmen" means tradesmen, mechanics, and artisans. These railway shopmen in many cases, particularly in Cork, have, I know, been placed on half time, three-quarter time, and some of them on no time at all, because they have been dismissed. In many other cases the men were told they were redundant, and that in a very short time they also would be dismissed or placed on half time or three-quarter time. This has been one of the evils of the unification of the railway systems.

In Cork there was a very well equipped workshop, which drew from the various inspectors dealing with that department encomiums from time to time as to the skill and efficiency that entered into the construction of railway wagons and the other things required for the railway service. A committee set up in Cork proved to the satisfaction of some of the directors of the railway, and to the satisfaction of other business men, that there was no economy whatsoever in one of the results of unification, namely, the centralisation of most of their work in another place. It is, perhaps, one of the problems that will face this country at a later period in the course of its development, whether the continued centralisation of industry in one particular portion of the State would be advisable or would contribute to the progress of the country itself. So far as we in Cork are concerned, we have found that whilst this unification may have meant a certain amount of economy so far as the advocates of centralisation would lead us to believe, yet at the same time we find that the result in Cork has been very disastrous. Many of these men have been added to the unemployed list.

I now want to know from the Minister himself if he considers it wise economy that for the sake of some very small savings, perhaps, in the expenses of railway undertakings, a number of men shall be added to the unemployed list, and as a consequence have to draw unemployment benefit? I do not want to labour that point too long, but some things occurred in the course of this discussion which I certainly cannot allow to pass unchallenged. Deputy Davin, I think, drew attention to statements coming from the Farmers' benches from time to time. They would lead us to believe that they, alone, are the people who are carrying all the expenses of the management of this country on their shoulders. I challenge that assertion, and I think it is about time that we cried halt to this slogan from the Farmers that 75 per cent. of the cost of running this country——

That is not the Minister's slogan.

I know it is not. If I am slightly out of order I would like to explain——

I want to point out to the Deputy that Ministers have collective responsibility, but for the purpose of the Estimates each Minister is a separate cockshot in himself. The essential thing during the debate is that Deputies should aim at the particular Minister who is the cockshot of the moment. It is at Deputy Baxter that Deputy Anthony is aiming, but he will have to aim at the Minister for Industry and Commerce, or else he will be firing at the wrong target.

Perhaps it would be considered heterodoxy on my part if I intended to support or help the Minister for Industry and Commerce—it would be out of order——

That would not be out of order; it would be unusual.

I do not think I would be out of order in suggesting or saying that we, the working class, contribute relatively, or in proportion, more to the taxation of this country than do the farmer class. The farmers have asked for an inquiry. They have asked that an inquiry should be set up in this House relative to the working of the various Departments, and see whether or not we are getting value for our money in this State. I would also suggest that some Committee should be set up in this House to inquire into how far, and in what manner, some farmers in this country are working their lands. This has some relation to the matter under discussion. I do know that we have a very large number of small working farmers in the country, and I do not believe that the Deputies on the Farmers' benches speak for them. We have a greater authority to speak for these small farmers than the Deputies on the Farmers' benches have. I have said that we contribute more, relatively, in the way of direct and indirect taxation on such matters as tobacco, beer, spirits, and other taxable commodities, than do the farmers represented by the Farmers' Party here. I would ask, before I sit down, that the Minister should state to us—at some future date, not now—their intentions in regard to the conditions under which land is held in the Free State.

With regard to item A, Deputy Anthony, so far as he was on the Vote at all, dealt with matters that are entirely outside my control. A payment is made of this £48,688 in accordance with the particular sections of the Railways Act which the last Dáil passed. Certain recoupment comes afterwards. The Deputy was really criticising the method of the Railways Company in the management of its own business. The last Dáil left it to the Railways Company to manage its own business in a certain way, subject to a certain amount of supervision. The Government has no control over what the Railways Company does in this matter.

Where does the supervision come from then?

In regard to ordinary railway business there is the Railways Tribunal.

Under your Department?

Not my Department. It does in another connection. It has supervision with regard to the paying out of certain moneys. Deputy Anthony has spoken of certain action which the Company took in order to effect economies. In that he is simply criticising what the last Dáil passed in the 1924 Act. That was what was allowed under that Act for the Company to do. The Company has a fairly free hand as to the way in which economies are to be effected.

Before we leave this Vote I would like to know are we clear as to when the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Supplementary Estimate is to be considered? I would like to know what Deputy White has to say on the matter.

It can be put down for to-morrow?

I propose that it be taken to-morrow after the Currency Bill.

Vote 57 put and agreed to.
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