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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Jul 1927

Vol. 20 No. 7

IN COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - VOTE 29—BEET SUGAR SUBSIDY (RESUMED).

Debate resumed on motion by the Minister for Finance:—
Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £198,000, chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1928, chun Congnamh Airgid d'íoc ar scór Siúicre Bhiatais (Uimh. 37 de 1925).
That a sum not exceeding £198,000 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1928, for payment of Subsidy in respect of Beet Sugar (No. 37 of 1925).

I only wish to make one point. Deputy O'Gorman pointed out that a certain proportion of the beet-pulp went to America. That is so. Half of it went to America and half was sold at home. You have the same position in England. They have sugar beet factories there for about 14 years, but nevertheless they are unable to dispose of more than half their supplies in any one year.

In the first year, we disposed of half the amount locally. Each grower was entitled to one cwt. or two cwt. beet-pulp at 5/- per cwt., for every ton of beet supplied to the factory. That was a term of the contract. The sugar manufacturers were anxious to dispose of as much beet-pulp as they could in the country and they gave, not the proportion named in the contract, but any quantity of beet-pulp which the growers wished to buy at this price. Nevertheless, they could only dispose of half of it. So far as the Department of Agriculture is concerned, they arranged for the production of a pamphlet for distribution in four or five of the best feeding counties dealing with the value of beet-pulp. That pamphlet was prepared, examined, and approved by the Department of Agriculture and it has been distributed wholesale. It points out the advantage of beet-pulp as a substitute for roots at the prices at which they are sold. A conference of all the instructors of Laoighis, Wexford, Kilkenny and the feeding counties was held, and they were asked to push the sale of beet-pulp in all the counties and to advertise it amongst the farmers, so as to get it used. They have been doing that. Experiments are going on in the Department's Institutes as to the value of beet-pulp, as compared with roots. When sufficiently reliable data have been obtained on that question, the Department will publish a pamphlet dealing with it.

Has the Minister received representations from vendors of feedings stuffs with reference to this Departmental competition?

Mr. HOGAN

No.

I should like to know if the exported beet-pulp was sold at a lower price than the farmers who grew the beet here could obtain it. Is the Minister in a position to answer that question? I should like to know also if there is any information obtainable, from the experiments that have been carried out up to the present, as to the feeding value of beet-pulp. Most of the people who fed beet-pulp in my locality considered it too dear at the price charged at the factory. I do not say that they have analysed it closely, but that is the general opinion in my district. The complement they agreed to take from the factory was considered too dear by them. Next year, I understand, a certain amount of beet-pulp will have to be taken by every grower, in proportion to the number of acres that he grows. It seems to me that there is no anxiety on the part of the farmers who produce this crop to get this beet-pulp when the factory takes these measures of disposing of it. My own opinion, and the opinion of the people of the district, is that the price charged by the factory is too high.

Last evening, I asked the Minister for Finance whether he was prepared to receive representations from reliable people as to the starting of another factory. The Minister said that these representations could not be considered for at least twelve months. The Minister for Lands and Agriculture got up a few moments later and gave us an entirely different impression. I should like to know which of the Ministers speaks for the Government or what the policy of the Government is. It would be advisable if some Minister would tell us exactly what the position is.

I do not know whether the Deputy is putting a conundrum or not. The question as to receiving representations depends on the representations. Representations might be so tempting that we would consider them at once, as the Minister for Lands pointed out, but I do not think we are likely to get such representations. Unless the proposals were of a very special character, we certainly would not be justified in considering them.

Am I to understand from that answer that the Government has made such a bad bargain that they do not want to enter into the same kind of contract again?

It seems very like it.

Has the Deputy any proposal to make?

I simply asked whether the Government were prepared to receive representations from reliable people. The Minister for Finance said the Government would not be prepared to do so for twelve months. The Minister for Lands and Agriculture stood up a few minutes later, and said: "Let anyone come along who has proposals to make." He went so far as to say that they would be prepared to receive representations up to a limit of 10s. a cwt. Which of the two statements represents the policy of the Government? I should like to have an answer to that question.

Mr. HOGAN

With reference to Deputy Doyle's question, I do not know at what price the pulp is being sold in America, and I am not in a position to find out. That is a commercial transaction and they can dispose of the pulp as they wish. There is this, however, to be remembered. Beet-pulp is very bulky. It is extremely difficult to find storage for large quantities of it. It was essential that the company should get a certain amount of beet-pulp cleared at any price. We have not very much reliable information as to the value of beet-pulp. But there are certain things about beet-pulp which deserve attention. Beet-pulp is sold at 5s. a cwt. or £5 a ton. With water added, you will have 8 tons of beet-pulp at £5. You will accordingly have 8 tons of turnips at £5, and the Deputy can judge for himself as to whether or not that is good value. Of course, the extent of the railway journey would have to be taken into consideration, but turnips at 12s. 6d. per ton appear to me to be fairly good value. The company had this year 1,000 extra acres available. They had considerable competition for that extra acreage. They could, as a matter of fact, have placed 5,000 or 6,000 extra acres. They decided to take the beet from the people who grew it last year, and they made it a condition of the taking of this extra acreage that the people would take a certain amount of beet-pulp. I think they are entitled to do that as the people are getting good value.

Might I ask for an answer to my question? I think I am entitled to it.

Mr. HOGAN

The Deputy knows the position perfectly well. The Minister for Finance is willing to receive as many representations as the Deputy wishes to put up to him at anything less than 10s. per cwt.

Could the Minister for Agriculture not find out from our trade representative in America what the commercial value of this pulp is there?

Mr. HOGAN

Of course I could, but that is a different question. The commercial value of pulp varies at different points in America. I could get information of that kind to-morrow, but that is an entirely different question from the question that was put to me. The question put to me had to do with a certain quantity of pulp which had to be sold and shipped to America in order to clear the stores here. I cannot answer that question. If I wished to deceive the Deputy, I could, of course, say that the commercial price in America was so and so. But I do not desire to do that.

Is it a fact that the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs definitely promised quite recently that a factory would be established in West Cork?

Vote put and agreed to.
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