On the last evening this debate was in progress I went through, one by one, the cases which Deputy Ruttledge had mentioned in his speech. I reviewed the cases which he put forward as cases which required reconsideration. I also went through the cases which he referred to on which he grounded the charge, which I think I have already demonstrated to be entirely groundless, that there was a licence to murder. I will now go further and mention a few of the cases in which members of the National Army have been sentenced by courts and are still serving sentences, and I think they in themselves should be sufficient to demonstrate to any fair-minded person how utterly groundless were the charges and how utterly reckless was the manner in which the Deputy made them. I might instance James Murray, who was condemned and is now serving a term of penal servitude for life; Joseph Butler, who was condemned for the shooting of a man in Limerick in August, 1922; he was duly tried, found guilty, was sentenced to death, and is now serving a life sentence. Take, again, John Ryan, who, whilst serving in the National Army, shot dead a man with whom he was on friendly terms, while Ryan himself was greatly under the influence of drink. This took place on the 16th May, 1923, just the period of the expiration of the Amnesty. He was duly found guilty, sentenced to death, and is now serving a life sentence. Contrast that case with the case that Deputy Ruttledge put forward—the case of John Hogan.
Hogan shot a man with whose family his family had been on bad terms, because this man, when ordered to put his hands up, refused to do so. Compare that with the case of Ryan. Ryan, under the influence of drink, shoots, not an enemy, but a friend. Surely the moral guilt of Ryan is far less than the moral guilt of Hogan. If Deputy Ruttledge's contention had any foundation in fact, then Ryan should have been released long ago. Ryan must be, in common sense and justice, released before Hogan. Yet Deputy Ruttledge comes to this House and asks for the release of Hogan. So much now for the cases which Deputy Ruttledge has put forward here. But his motion goes a little bit beyond merely what he calls political prisoners. I take it we have had an exhaustive list from him, and I think I have showed what curious things he considers to be political crimes. He mentioned in this House that he, and other Fianna Fáil Deputies, had an interview with me upon this matter some months ago. He mentioned twenty names. He has mentioned some of them in this debate. Others he has not mentioned. I do not know whether he has or has not abandoned the other claims, but they certainly are the nearest things he could think of or his Party put forward, and I shall proceed to deal with the cases with which he has not already dealt.