I move for permission to introduce a Bill entitled "an Act to amend the Constitution by deleting the provisions now contained therein as to the persons entitled to vote at elections of members of Seanad Eireann and by providing in lieu thereof that at such elections the electors shall be the members of Dáil Eireann and the members of Seanad Eireann voting together and by making consequential amendments as to the mode of voting at such elections."
PUBLIC BUSINESS. - CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT NO. 6) BILL, 1928—FIRST STAGE.
I propose to object to the First Reading of this Bill.
Under the Standing Orders, a statement against the First Reading, not an argument and not a speech against the Bill, may be allowed from those who oppose the Bill, and, at the discretion of the Ceann Comhairle, from any other Deputy.
Mr. O'CONNELL
My statement will be very brief. As you know, it is unusual to oppose the First Readings of Bills, because it is usual to give permission to allow Bills to be introduced and printed. But this Bill contains in the Title, as set out here, the main principle of the measure, and it is because it proposes to alter the method of voting at Seanad elections, to take from the people the right which they now have, and vest that right in the members of the Dáil and Seanad, that I am proposing to vote against this Bill. I know it has been founded on a Report of the Joint Committee, a Majority Report of the Joint Committee which sat and went into this question. I was not surprised to see the Government supporters, the members of the Government Party, objecting to this particular method of electing a Seanad; but I must express surprise that the proposal was supported by members of the Fianna Fáil Party. I do not wish to go into this matter in detail at this stage. I simply mention that I will contest at every stage of this Bill the proposal to deprive the people of the right to select members of the Second Chamber by direct vote.
We also have decided to contest every one of these Bills from the start to the finish. We are opposed to the first Bill on grounds slightly different from those which the leader of the Labour Party has put forward. We object to it on the ground that it includes the members of the Seanad with the members of the Dáil in this election, and also because, although we were members of that Committee, we indicated at the start that we think the time has come when the Seanad should be abolished altogether. We see no good purpose served by that body. We believe it is an expensive body, and we believe also that it was used, and is going to be used, simply to enthrone privilege in this country. We believe in equal rights, in the same rights being accorded to every citizen; but we are against any attempt to enthrone privilege of any kind here.
Apart altogether from its merits or demerits, this is one of a set containing a proposal to remove Article 48 from the Constitution. It means, as far as we are concerned anyhow, that a certain accommodation which we were prepared to give to the Executive up to the present will be withdrawn henceforth, and we intend to contest every one of the steps taken in legislation from this on. We believe this is a disgraceful attempt, particularly in view of Deputy Thrift's motion which was passed here, to deprive the people of a right which they were led to believe by those who supported the Treaty and Constitution was their right and would remain their right. I do not wish to say anything further at this stage except that we intend opposing as strongly as we can each of these Bills and preventing, in so far as we can, their passage through this House.
I understood Deputy O'Connell objected only to Constitution (Amendment No. 6) Bill, the Bill which is now before the House. The Deputy was at some pains to explain the reasons why he was against the measure. I observed a reluctance on his part to go into our experiences in connection with the election which took place some three years ago for 19 members of the Seanad.
Mr. O'CONNELL
This is not the stage at which to do it.
Objections have been made only because there is a proposal later on to introduce a measure to excise Article 48 from the Constitution.
Mr. O'CONNELL
That is not my objection.
It is just as sensible as the Deputy's objection. The Deputy wishes to have maintained the old position in which 23 per cent. of the electorate voted in a former Seanad election. That is the sum and substance of his case. Twenty-three per cent. voted three years ago.
That was not a normal election.
That is all they care about the Seanad. Why not abolish it?
Would the Minister propose to abolish the Dáil if only 23 per cent. of the electorate voted?
No.
Why not?
There is no similarity between the two. You have a constituency election in one case and the whole country in the other case, and the principle of having a Second Chamber formed on the basis of a First Chamber would not be in accordance with the regulations governing any Second Chamber almost in any country. To maintain the present position considerable expense is entailed in making up the register; considerable expense is entailed in the election itself; and the presentation of 50, 60, 70 and, possibly, 200 names in about six years' time, to the electorate for their selection was beyond, I think, the contemplation of the framers of the Constitution. That is the Deputy's case. The Deputy is standing for a 23 per cent. vote.
Not at all.
He is standing for all the expense entailed in getting a 23 per cent. vote and, so far as the objections of Deputy de Valera are concerned, I say that they are worthy of him.
Good-bye, summer holidays.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 62; Níl, 42.
Tá
- Ernest Henry Alton.
- James Walter Beckett.
- George Cecil Bennett.
- Ernest Blythe.
- Séamus A. Bourke.
- Seán Brodrick.
- Alfred Byrne.
- John Joseph Byrne.
- Edmund Carey.
- James Coburn.
- John James Cole.
- Mrs. Margt. Collins-O'Driscoll.
- Martin Conlon.
- Michael P. Connolly.
- Bryan Ricco Cooper.
- William T. Cosgrave.
- Sir James Craig.
- John Daly.
- Michael Davis.
- Peter de Loughrey.
- Eugene Doherty.
- James N. Dolan.
- Peadar Seán Doyle.
- Edmund John Duggan.
- Barry M. Egan.
- Osmond Thos. Grattan Esmonde.
- Desmond Fitzgerald.
- James Fitzgerald-Kenney.
- John Good.
- Denis J. Gorey.
- John J. Hassett.
- John Hennigan.
- Mark Henry.
- Patrick Hogan (Galway).
- Patrick Michael Kelly.
- Hugh Alexander Law.
- Patrick Leonard.
- Finian Lynch.
- Arthur Patrick Mathews.
- Martin McDonogh.
- Michael Og McFadden.
- Patrick McGilligan.
- Joseph W. Mongan.
- Richard Mulcahy.
- Joseph Xavier Murphy.
- Martin Michael Nally.
- John Thomas Nolan.
- Bartholomew O'Connor.
- Timothy Joseph O'Donovan.
- Daniel O'Leary.
- Dermot Gun O'Mahony.
- John J. O'Reilly.
- Gearoid O'Sullivan.
- John Marcus O'Sullivan.
- William Archer Redmond.
- Vincent Rice.
- Martin Roddy.
- Timothy Sheehy (West Cork).
- William Edward Thrift.
- Vincent Joseph White.
- George Wolfe.
- Jasper Travers Wolfe.
Níl
- Frank Aiken.
- Denis Allen.
- Richard Anthony.
- Gerald Boland.
- Patrick Boland.
- Daniel Bourke.
- Robert Briscoe.
- Daniel Buckley.
- Hugh Colohan.
- Eamon Cooney.
- Dan Corkery.
- Richard Corish.
- Martin John Corry.
- William Davin.
- Thomas Derrig.
- Eamon de Valera.
- Frank Fahy.
- Andrew Fogarty.
- Seán French.
- Patrick Hogan (Clare).
- Samuel Holt.
- Patrick Houlihan.
- William R. Kent.
- James Joseph Killane.
- Mark Killilea.
- Seán F. Lemass.
- Patrick John Little.
- Ben Maguire.
- Thomas McEllistrim.
- Seán MacEntee.
- Séamus Moore.
- Daniel Morrissey.
- Thomas Mullins.
- Thomas J. O'Connell.
- Patrick Joseph O'Dowd.
- Seán T.O'Kelly.
- Matthew O'Reilly.
- James Ryan.
- Martin Sexton.
- Patrick Smith.
- Richard Walsh.
- Francis C. Ward.
Tellers:—Tá, Deputies Duggan and P. Doyle. Níl: Deputies Davin and G. Boland.
Motion declared carried.
Leave granted.
Second Stage ordered for Thursday, 14th June.