Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 26 Oct 1928

Vol. 26 No. 9

PRIVATE BUSINESS. - LEGAL PRACTITIONERS (QUALIFICATION) BILL, 1928—SECOND STAGE (RESUMED).

Question again proposed: That the Bill be read a Second Time.

I will be very brief. Let me say at the beginning that I am all out in favour of this Bill. I consider it a very reasonable Bill, and I consider it long overdue. I believe that this Bill is one of the most important Bills that we have had to deal with for some time. I regard, and I believe a huge majority of the Dáil regards, the Irish language as one of its most precious heritages. I look upon the Irish language as the sheet-anchor and one of the hall-marks of our nationality. Therefore any measure of legislation that will tend to forward the language of this country is appreciated, I am sure, to the full by every member of the Dáil. If we let down the language, down goes this nation. If the language were not cherished and succoured by the Government, I for one would not remain in the Government Party. What is the policy of the Government? The policy of the Government, I take it, is first to do all it can for this country and for the people of Ireland; to cherish the language of Ireland and in every way to support and maintain our Irish institutions.

Some Deputies have talked about compulsion. We all know that the avowed policy of this Government is to advance the language. Surely everybody in the Saorstát in the year 1928 should know that no public appointments in future will be made unless the candidates have a practical knowledge of the Irish language. I for one, at any rate, when speaking to the Irish people for the last five years have stressed that point, and I told them that if they failed to learn the language of Ireland, if they had no love for the language, well then they should look upon the language from a bread and butter point of view of life and from the materialistic point of view. It is nonsense then to say that anybody or that everybody did not know what the policy of this Government is and I am sure succeeding Governments will be in the matter of forwarding the Irish language. I look upon the legal profession as one of the chief props of this State. If we go to Paris or Berlin or Madrid and visit the courts of law in those places what language will we find spoken there? In the Parisian or Madrid courts or in the Berlin courts, the language you will find spoken is the language of those countries.

It has been further stated that barristers and solicitors are officers of the courts and that, therefore, they are officers of the State. In a sense they are, and on a different level, say, from the other professions, doctors, engineers or other people. All the law proceedings in the courts are given widespread publicity in the metropolitan papers and in the provincial papers. Take up any of these papers when any law proceedings are on, and you will see the space that is devoted by the papers to these law proceedings. Therefore, I regard the legal profession as forming perhaps one of the main props of this or any other State. Barristers and solicitors in a sense are compulsionists. They compel the man in the street and the people of the nation to do something very often against their wills. It would appear that in the Dáil in the year 1928 there are some members of the legal profession who are adverse to this judicious vis a tergo. I have recollections that I have read in, I think, the "Independent," that the Incorporated Law Society, sitting here in Dublin, had a debate recently on the Irish language, and that in the course of that debate they turned down the Irish language.

I hope they will not bring an action for libel against me if I am wrong. I take it that their turning down of the Irish language was one of the great factors why Deputy Conlon and his colleague, the other back-bencher, saw well and thought it wise to introduce this Bill. I think it was Deputy Buckley who made the statement that the schools that were most proficient in the Irish language and in Irish education generally were the schools that were most proficient in other subjects. I take that as a fact, and I think it is a very significant fact. If the children of the Saorstát were able to obtain such high marks, because, undoubtedly, of the fact that they studied the Irish language, therefore, I believe, it follows that the legal profession in studying the Irish language will be assisted by that very fact. Its study will help to clarify and brighten up their minds, if I might say so. I, for one, hope that when they do study it the fact of studying it will bring additional rose nobles into their coffers. The language of Ireland has been compulsory in the Saorstát for a considerable time. It is being taught in the schools. The teachers were compelled to learn the language. Those who did know it were brought to various Irish-speaking centres and they were made, and rightly made, to refurbish their minds as regards a knowledge of Irish, and then they taught it to the children. I think that the language has now been taught compulsorily for four or five years. The children of to-day will be the men and women of to-morrow, and if any profession, or section of the people, failed to stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest of Irish-Ireland, I think that any National Government of the day would be lacking in its duty if it did not use some judicious compulsion in compelling that section to study its own language. Twenty-eight years ago, when I was in college, I studied the Irish language from Father O'Growney's books. I have some of them yet, and in my spare time I take them up whenever I can and study the language. I venture to say that the sacrifices and sufferings which the Irish people have experienced for the last ten years or more would in great part be nullified, and the amount of freedom accruing from those sufferings and trials, the amount of material gain if you like, would be wasted and, to many of us in this Dáil, the whole matter would be a calamity unless the Irish language was cherished and brought to the forefront as a language of any country should. I am very glad that this Bill has been introduced. I think it was necessary, because, as I have said, one of the chief props of the State, namely, the law, did not in my opinion take that interest that it should have taken in the question of the Irish language. I am very glad indeed that Deputies Conlan and McFadden have brought forward this measure which, I hope and believe, will be carried by an overwhelming majority.

Tar éis an oiread atá ráidhte ar an Bhille seo, is beag atá le rá agam sa. Tá an furmhór againn ar aon intinn fa'n cheist seo. Gidh go bhfuil daoine in aghaidh an Bhille, tá áthas orm a rá go bhfuil na Teachtaí as Co. na Gaillimhe ar aon intinn fa'n cheiste, d'ainneoin nach bhfuil an tuairim ceudna acu ar rudaí eile. Támuid ar aon intinn an teanga do chur ins an áit cheart, ins an áit ba chóir dí a bheith agus ins an áit in a raibh sí fadó.

Is breagh an rud go bhfuil an cuid is mó de na Teachtaí ar son an Bhille seo ar gach taobh de'n Tigh agus go bhfuiltear beagnach cinnte go gcuirfear i bhféidhm é. Tá daoine in aghaidh an Bhille, mar a dubhairt mé. ach, má tá, is cuma cad a deir siad no cad a dheineann siad, tá an furmhór againn annseo ar aon tuairim—go. gcuirfimid an teanga in-uachtar. Cuireadh síos í le scríos agus le troid, ach cuirfimid suas arís í. Buaileadh é ar doigh nar ceart—leis an láimh láidir—agus, má's gá é, cuirfimid ar ais ins an áit cheart í ar an dóigh ceudna.

There is very little to say that has not already been said on this matter, except that in my opinion the Bill does not go far enough and is not comprehensive. I hope it is only a beginning and that other Bills will be brought forward of a similar nature. The opposition to it is mostly the same old opposition that was always against the Irish-Ireland movement. Deputy J.J. Byrne seems to have taken it on himself to speak for the Benchers in this matter, but I would like to know from him whether he has the authority of the Benchers to take up the attitude which he has adopted and whether they are as much opposed to Irish as he says. One of the principal reasons given by Deputy Good for his opposition to the Bill is that people who send their children to school to England and other countries are victimised, as their children are handicapped when they come back without knowing the Irish language. I would like to tell Deputy Good that from my own point of view, and from that of most Deputies, we consider that the Irish schools and colleges are sufficiently good for any Irish boy or girl. I think the day has long gone when we should, for the sake of tone, snobbery, or whatever you like to call it, regard English education and English schools, English ideas and English culture as necessary for boys, whereas, as a matter of fact, Irish schools and Irish ideas are much better for them. Deputy Redmond and Deputy Cooper more or less agreed that the cause of the Irish language should be advanced, but they objected to what they call revolutionary methods. I do not see anything revolutionary in this Bill. It only requires a small knowledge of Irish for the entrance examination, and is no hardship on any of those who are already studying law. In addition to that, those who are leaving school and are preparing to take up the law or any other profession have generally sufficient knowledge of Irish to pass the required examination. In that way I do not see how it can be looked on as a revolutionary Bill. Although I very often agree with Deputy Dr. Hennessy, I do not agree with him on this matter. He wrote a long letter to the papers recently in which he went back to the early conquest of Ireland and talked of the Firbolgs and the Tuatha De Danaans and proved that there are a number of very good Irishmen whose ancestors never knew Irish. It was a sort of epistle the point of which I could not get, but I hope he will develop it further.

One point that has been brought out in the course of the debate is that the majority of Deputies are favourably disposed towards Irish and that they would support any steps that are taken to make Irish the language of the country, as far as possible, in our time. I hope that in a very short time some steps will be taken to see that the medical profession will also be manned by Irish speakers in this country. At present, of course, Irish is compulsory for matriculation in the National University, but in Trinity and in the College of Surgeons it is not. If any steps can be taken to make Irish an essential subject for the medical as well as the legal profession in these two colleges I hope they will be taken. I think it is high time that people, even from Trinity College, should begin to realise that the language has come to stay, that we are going to see as far as we can that it will be the language of the country, and that a day will come when all Irishmen without any compulsion will take up Irish and so advance towards the realisation of the ideal Gaelic-speaking State.

I am opposing this Bill because I think it savours too much of compulsion and dictation and because it is one of those pin-pricks that annoy a very large section of our people. I believe you can lead Irishmen but you cannot drive them. Many of the speeches in support of this Bill were simply an attack upon and sneers at what the speakers were pleased to call the Ascendancy Party. They are accused of being anti-national, anti-Irish, etc. I would remind supporters of the Bill that many of the so-called Ascendancy Party belong to the educated classes and that they also pay a large proportion of national taxation, the money that is used for compulsory Irish and without which the wheels of Government could not function. I would tell those Deputies also that the love such people bear to Ireland is no less than that of those who shout their nationality like Cheap Jacks at a fair. I think the time has come when Irishmen should respect the other fellow's point of view without sneering and threatening by such expressions as "They will have to toe the line,""the writing is on the wall," etc.

I think we heard that before.

I am saying that we are threatened with such expressions as these. Deputy Carney in his speech told us that his experience when he was at school was that Latin was a compulsory language. I admit it was compulsory, but it was not made compulsory by legislation, which is a very different matter. It was made compulsory by the governing bodies of the Universities, and then the Board of Education made it compulsory in the Intermediate, because the secondary schools were but the stepping-stones to the Universities. That is very different from the compulsion and dictation contained in this Bill. We are trying to dictate to the people entrusted with the training of our young men for the legal profession. That compulsion is used without consulting them in any way, without consulting the Benchers of the Kings Inns or the Incorporated Law Society. If the Benchers of the Kings Inns or the Incorporated Law Society made Irish compulsory I would approve of their action. They are the bodies responsible for the training of our law students, and I think we should not interfere with them in this way. I would ask the House to consider what good it is swatting up Irish for the purpose of passing a compulsory examination, even if the standard of the examination is high? What good is that going to do the language movement? I believe it will not do it any good, and it may entail hardship on many aspirants to the legal profession.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about this Bill. Some people seem to think that the Bill only entails what would be a compulsory entrance examination for a student preparing for either branch of the legal profession. If Deputies will read Clause 5 they will see that the substance of it is that if the Incorporated Law Society or the Benchers of the Kings Inns are satisfied that a student has qualified, either for the Bar or as a solicitor in his legal knowledge, he is then called by the Chief Justice in the usual course. This Bill empowers the Lord Chief Justice for the time being, if he thinks that a certain student has passed his law examination and if he has any doubt that he is not a proficient Irish scholar to give him an opportunity of calling for another examination. I think that is going entirely too far. As I said before, I do not feel compulsion is going to do the language movement any good. It will not help to make it a living language, and for that reason I am opposing the Bill.

It is my intention to vote for the Second Reading of this Bill, though I consider the Bill will require a certain amount of amendment in Committee. I hope that by the time I have finished my criticism of the Bill I shall have succeeded in satisfying the House that two amendments, at any rate, such as I suggest, are wise and proper amendments to be made. I do not agree with Deputy Tubridy and Deputy O'Connell that this is a small measure. I agree with Deputy Matthews, on the contrary, that the measure goes further than any other measure yet introduced into this House. It is not correct to say, as Deputy Tubridy said, that only a small amount of Irish will be required—something like the matriculation standard. That is not the Bill at all. The Bill is that no party shall be admitted to the degree of barrister-at-law, unless he has a competent knowledge of Irish, and that nobody shall be admitted to practise as a solicitor, unless he has a competent knowledge of Irish. I take it that that means—must mean—that he is capable of conducting business in court in Irish. I do not know what else it could mean. "Competent" there must mean competent to carry out the duties of his profession. In consequence, I take it that this Bill means that any person who is now under sixteen years of age, and who at any future time is either called to the Bar, or is admitted as a solicitor, must have a good working knowledge of the Irish language. That is the measure as it stands, and it is better that it should be completely understood.

It is different also from any other measure which has passed through this House because, up to this, compulsory Irish has always been associated either with a grant of Government money or with employment, the remuneration of which comes out of either public or semi-public local funds. This Bill goes very much further than that. At the present time as far as the Bar is concerned, it only applies to assistant District Justices, because the section dealing with Circuit Court Judges was ruled out of order in the Courts of Justice Bill. But the general principle underlying that was that all legal appointments made in future and conferred upon persons, under sixteen at present, would only be given to persons with a competent knowledge of Irish. These are, of course, Government appointments. Similarly, Irish is compulsory in the schools, but it is only compulsory in State-aided schools.

To a certain extent, this Bill starts a new principle—I say only to a certain extent. In this Bill Irish is made compulsory for persons who have received no Government money in the course of their education and who are not asking for any Government employment or any payment out of public funds. As a matter of fact, they have the privilege of paying to public funds a certain amount for stamp duties before they can be admitted to the profession. But I say that it is only to a certain extent a departure because, when called to the Bar, or admitted as a solicitor, certain rights and privileges are conferred upon a certain class of the community. They are given the sole and exclusive right of audience in the High Court, and, with some statutory exceptions, which enable secretaries of Departments and other public officials to appear in court, they have the exclusive right of audience in the lower courts too. Therefore, this is dealing with professions which are protected either by the common law or by statute, but, at any rate, have a certain amount of public protection. They are not in the same position as, let me say, doctors, who are not so protected; or priests, whom Deputy Fahy mentioned, who of course are not so protected. The analogy, if I were to draw an analogy, would be rather the dentists' profession, because it will be in the recollection of the House that we recently passed a measure protecting the dentists' profession. That would be, in fact, the analogy.

A great deal has been said in favour of compulsory Irish, and in favour of the Irish language and Irish revival. I think the House is almost unanimous in its view that, for the future development, and I believe also for the future prosperity, of the country, the revival of the Irish language is a matter of the first importance, and the only question I think which has been really debated here is the question of procedure —is this wise? I have considered the matter for whatever my own judgment and opinion are worth. I have listened to the speeches with great attention and given the Bill very careful consideration indeed, and I have come to the conclusion that, on the whole, this Bill will make for the advancement of the Irish language, and that is the reason I am giving it my support.

Deputy Matthews said he would be in favour of the Bill if the Benchers made Irish compulsory. The Benchers could not make Irish compulsory. The Benchers do not educate in languages at all. They have nothing to do with the teaching of languages. All they do is to give instructions in law. They do indeed make a certain amount of Latin necessary. But the reason of that is because the law which is administered in our courts is, to a certain extent, founded upon the Roman law, and some slight knowledge of Latin is necessary for the full understanding and learning of the Roman law; and also because, throughout all our law, there is a great number of maxims which started originally in Latin and which are still used in Latin. The standard of Latin required is not very high. At present, for admission to the King's Inns, all that is necessary is that a person who presents himself shall have matriculated at some university in this country or have passed the Senior Grade Intermediate, or got a degree in certain foreign universities.

If he has none of those qualifications, then there is an examination for him. In that, he can take either Irish or English—he has the choice of both; but he must take Latin. The examination, I need scarcely say, is hardly ever held, because every person who presents himself has passed one of those examinations, and the standard is, roughly speaking, the matriculation. But it is quite possible, as a matter of fact, that a person might present himself, and become a member of the King's Inns, who did not know one single word of Irish or English. It is rather curious, but it is so, because it is quite possible that a graduate of an Indian university would present himself to the King's Inns and he would be admitted as a student because he is a graduate of that university; yet he may have done all his university work in his own native language. As a matter of fact, there have been people called—certainly I am told of one particular example, a native of the State of Uganda, who was called to the Bar here and who had not a competent knowledge of English. I mention that to show that the Benchers do not concern themselves with educational qualifications at all. The sole thing they concern themselves with is seeing that those whom they admit to the degree of barrister-at-law shall have obtained a knowledge of law, so that they shall be able to discharge their duties to their clients when they get called.

Section 3 reads:—

"No person shall be admitted to the degree of barrister-at-law, unless before he is so admitted, he satisfies the Chief Justice, by such evidence as the Chief Justice shall prescribe, that he possesses a competent knowledge of the Irish language."

I think that section should be amended. There are two processes and it appears to me that Deputy Conlon has confused the two. In the first place, the Benchers admit a man to the degree of barrister-at-law. That does not enable him to practise at the Irish Bar. Before he can practise at the Irish Bar he must be called to the Bar by the Chief Justice. That is what confers the right of audience in court. The Benchers confer the degree and that degree is recognised outside the country. For instance, a man may receive the title of barrister-at-law from the Benchers and may go to India and practise, although he has never been called to the Irish Bar and would have no right of audience at the Irish Bar. My suggestion is that that section should be amended so as to read: "Nobody should be called to the Irish Bar by the Chief Justice unless he has a competent knowledge of the Irish language." I think that is what the House wants; that the language of the courts being Irish, persons coming to practise in those courts, should know Irish. But I do not think the House wants, or that it would be necessary that a person who is never going to practise in these courts should know the Irish language. Foreigners come over here to study law. I do not think it should be necessary for a foreigner, taking out a course of studies for three years in King's Inns, to study the Irish language, when at the end of three years, after he has taken his degree, he goes away to another country and never returns to this country.

I think what the Minister for Justice has said is practically what Deputy Conlon has in mind. But there is a question of a man going away with the Irish degree of barrister-at-law. He cannot hold himself as a competently educated Irishman when he does not know his own language. I want to bring that to the mind of the Minister.

It is not a question so much of a person not knowing his own language as that a great number, almost fifty per cent. of the students at one time, were not Irish born; a great many of them were Hindoos, and there is still a considerable number of such students at the King's Inns. What the House wants, and would like to secure, is that persons getting the privilege of practising in our Irish courts should know the Irish language.

There is another point which goes further, and here again, I suggest to the House, that a concession might be made. The point was made by Deputy Cooper that a considerable number of Irish barristers and solicitors do in fact go abroad. These Irish barristers have a right to practise in courts in other countries because they are Irish barristers, and that right might be taken away if this measure, in its present form, becomes law. That is to say, if an Irishman can practise in another country because he knows law, and if a barrister who is an inhabitant of another country cannot come here and practise in Ireland after he has taken his degree and has been called to the Bar in his own country unless he has also a knowledge of the Irish language, then Ireland would be asking more from other countries than other countries are asking from Ireland, and reciprocity might be taken away. While that would not affect a very large number of persons—the number of foreigners here in this country practising either as barristers or solicitors, is very trifling—it would affect a considerable number of Irish people who go abroad. I suggest the Bill might be altered so as to make it possible that persons who have been called to the Bar, and have taken out their degrees in other countries, could be admitted to the Bar here without a knowledge of the Irish language being required. I know it is said, from the benches opposite, that we do not educate for export, and that people ought to make a living in their own country. But I like to get down to hard facts, and, as a matter of fact, there are a great number of persons, whom I know, called to the Bar, or admitted to the solicitors' profession, who have tried to make a living in Ireland and failed. The Bar is a very difficult profession to get on at; it is a very slow profession.

Sometimes a very able man may have to wait years and years before he gets an opening. He may not have the means at his disposal to enable him to wait during those years. In consequence he goes abroad to some of the countries in which, as an Irish barrister, he can practise. India, for instance, is one. A great number also go to Africa, to the East Coast, to the Strait Settlements, and to Canada. In Canada there is another examination, but not in the other places. Men who really tried here and failed have been driven to emigrate, and a great number of them have been very successful, and have done extraordinarily well. A great number, who never succeeded in getting an opening here, succeeded when they got away, and have risen to the very top of their profession.

I agree with Deputy Cooper that it would be a hardship if that avenue were closed to men who have honestly tried to make their living in this country, but found that, under present conditions, they could not make their living here. These are the two amendments I suggest in this Bill. But while the Bill may stir up, and will stir up, a very considerable amount of opposition, while it has been already severely criticised, and will be more severely criticised, I believe on the whole that this Bill will do good. I believe on the whole this Bill will tend to get the driving power of two great professions and the high prestige of two great professions, one of which I have the honour myself to belong, right behind this movement for the revival of the Irish language.

Cuidighím leis an mBille seo. Is dóigh liom nách bhfuil aon mhaith a bheith ag caitheamh airgid ar obair na Gaedhilge sna scoileanna má tá na dligheadóirí agus an dream eile mar iad ag cur na hoibre sin ar neamh-nidh. Tá Bille den tsort seo ag teastáil i gcóir an uile dream sa Tír nach bhfuil ag déanamh a geion féin ar son na teangan. Ceapann lucht dlighe go bhfuil éagcóir dhá dhéanamh ortha sa rud seo ach bíodh a fhios acu gur ortha féin atá an locht óir tá éagcóir mhór dhá dhéanamh acu le fada an lá ar theangain na tíre seo. Deir an Teachta Réamónn nach bhfuil dligheadóirí go bhfuil an Ghaedhilg acu ag teastáil. Muna bhfuil siad ag teastáil tá gádh mór leobhtha agus is leór dúinn an fios sin. Is maith le Teachta Reámónn agus le Teachta Cuipéir an Gheadhilg ach ní maith leo i d'fhoghluim.

Tá duine i gcoinnibh na Gaedhilge no i bhfabhar na Gaedhilge—nil aon bhóthar idir eadtora ann. Táimíd tuirseach ó bheith ag eisteacht leis an bport a bhí ag an Teachta Cuipéir maidir le foghluim na Gaedhilge. Dubhairt sé gur thosuigh sé ag foghluim na Gaedhilge tá fiche blian ó shoin, go ndeacha sé chó fada le "bó bhán" agus "bó dhearg" agus gur stop sé annsin.

Tá na daoine aithride seo chó huasal agus chó léigheanta gur masla dhóibh a iarraidh ortha an teanga d'fhoghluim. Tá an oiread baint ag na daoine seo le dream go bhfuil ollmhaitheas an tsaogail acu gur masla é iarraidh ortha focal dá dteangain féin dó bheith acu. Ní fheicim rud ar bith níos greannmhaire no níos amadaighe ná bheith ag éisteacht le daoine gur cheart dóibh fior-chultúr na nGaedheal do bheith acu ag leigint ortha gur gaill galánta iad. Ní fhaca mé rud ar bith níos aite ná sin ariamh—an dream suarach seo ag cur i gcoinne gach rud atá Gaolach agus a bhaineann leis an náisiúntacht.

I dtaobh an Bhille féin, tá áthas orm go bhfuil an tAire Dlí agus Cirt ag cuidiú leis. Deir sé go bhfuil faoi leasuithe do chur isteach ann, ach ní aontuighím gur ceart leasuithe a chur isteach a dhéanfadh dochar don Bhille. Tá an Bille ar an treó cheart. O chualamar na Teachtaí O Conchubhair agus O Connalláin agus an tAire Rialtais Aitiúla agus Sláinte Puiblí ag caint o chianaibh, tá atharú intinne tagtha ar chuid againn. Creidímíd go mb-fhéidir go bhfuil cuid acú dáriribh i dtaobh na Gaedhilge.

Má taimíd i ndáríribh, caithfimíd an Bille do neartú. Caithfimíd dul an bealach ar fad. Mholfainn, in alt a dó, 16 bliana d'atharú go 18 mbliana. Muna ndéanfaimís sin, ní bheidh dligheadoirí againn go mbeidh an Ghaedhilg acú go ceann seacht mblian; agus muna ndéanfar rud eicínt tabhachtach roimh sheacht mbliana ar son na Gaedhilge agus ar son na nGaedhilgeóirí, ní bheidh aon Ghaedhilgeóirí leis an nGaedhilg do labhairt le Doctúirí ná le Dligheadhoirí. Ceapaim gur fiú féachaint isteach sa sgéal agus an aos d'atharú o 16 bliana go 18 mbliana.

Caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil an iomarca comhachta tugtha don Phríomh-Bhreitheamh. I dtaobh an fhocail seo "competent" in alt a 3, is féidir dhá bhrí a bhaint as an bhfocal sin. Cur i gcás go bhfuil priomh breitheamh i gcoinne na Gaedhilge nach dtig leis-san glaca le dligheadór nach bhfuil ach cupla focal Gaedhilge aige. Má bhionn sé i gcoinne na Gaedhilge, nach dtig leis a rá gur "competent knowledge" é sin. B'fhearr liom-sa da gcuirtí grád speisialta isteach sa mBille i n-ionad an fhocail seo. Ba mhaith an rud é dá ndéanfaímís an rud céanna a rinne Roinn an Oideachais nuair a thosuigh siad ar an Scéim Ghaedhilge sna sgoileanna. Ba mhaith an Scéim í sin ach níor chuir siar isteach an focal "competent." Do chuir siad isteach Grád spesialta no Teisteas spesialta. An rud a rinneadh leis na hoidí is féidir é dhéanamh leis na dligheadóirí no le haon dream sa tír ag a bhfuil baint acu le gnóthaí puiblí no le gnóthaí ua ndaoine. Do mholfainn don Aire an t-atharú sin do dhéanamh agus do b'fhiú é dhéanamh má táimíd i ndáríribh i dtaobh an Bhille seo. Is ceart a rá go bhfuilimíd buidheach de na Teachtaí a thug isteach an Bille, Táim féin buidheach ar chuma ar bith de na Teachtaí a thug isteach é. Bhíomar féin ag smaoineadh ar feadh sgathaimh fhada ar Bhille den tsort seo, ni hamháin do dhlighead óirí, ach do dhreamanna eile, ach bhí a fhios againn dá dtabharfadh sinne Bille den tsort seo isteach bheadh' chuile Theachta ar an taobh eile den Tigh 'na aghaidh. Nílimíd-ne chó nimhneach, caol-intinneach leo-san.

Níl an ceart agat sa méid sin.

Tá sinne ag cuidiú leis an mBille seo agus táimid buidheach de na Teachtaí a thug isteach é. Tá súil againn go mbeidh tuille le cloisteáil uatha i rudaí den tsort seo. Táimíd-ne ag cuidiú leo leis an mBille seo do dhéanamh 'na dhlí.

Tá seanrádh ann—"An rud a théigheas i bhfad théigheann sé i roighineadas," acht má chuaidh an Bille seo i bhfad, buidheachas mór le Máirtín O Connallain agus le Mícheál Og Mac Faidín ní dheachaidh sé i roighineadas. Ní hé amháin mo bhuidheachas-sa, acht beidh buidheachas an Tighe agus na tíre ortha. Ní'l focal agam-sa le rádh i n-aghaidh na ndligheadóirí i mo cheanntar féin. Mara mbeadh cuid aca, ní bheinn-se annseo le labhairt inaon chor, agus táim cinnte go bhfuilim ag cainnt ar a son, nuair a deirim go bhfuil céad míle fáilte aca roimh an mBille seo.

Anois, na Teachtaí a labhair i n-agaidh an Bhille seo is mó, go mór, a labhradar i n-aghaidh an chaoi ar tugadh isteach é, na an Bille é féin. Dubhairt siad go mo cheart go Mháirtín O Conláin agus go Mhicheál Og Mhac Faidín a dhul chuig Cumann na nDligheadóirí le na gcuid hataí i na lámhaibh aca, agus iarraidh ortha, as ocht Dé, cead a thabhairt dóibh an Bille seo a thabhairt isteach. O! Bhí an saoghal sin ann, nuair a chaithfeadh a léighthidí sinne a dhul chuig na daoine móra, beaga, le nár hataí i nár lámhaibh; acht tá an saoghal sin imthighthe, agus "imtheacht gan filleadh chuige."

Níl fhios agam a ndeachaidh na Ministéirí thart ag fiafhrúghadh de gach uile dhuine an raibh sé ceart aca a leithidi seo nó a leithidi siúd de Bhille a thabhairt isteach? Táim-se cinnte nach ndeachaidh; acht ar ndóigh ní rabhadar a déanamh dlige do "bhoicíní" annsin. Níl fhios agam an 'sa ngealaigh abhí na daoine seo i na gcómhnuidhe le deich mbliadhna anuas. Ar an bpoinnte a thosuighmid ag stiúradh ár dtíre féin, tchídfeá an dream seo ag dul thart le na gcuid leabhra beaga Gaedhilge agus iad ag iarraidh bheith dhá fóghluim ó aon nduine a raibh sí aige, agus eágla an domhain ortha nach bhfuighdís cead bpostaí a choinghbheál nuair nach raibh Gaedhilge aca. Acht an troid eadthrainn féin mhíll sé é seo.

Dubhairt Teachta sa Tighe seo—níl mise cinnte cad é an caoi 'na ndeirtear i nGaedilg é, bféidir "Seán Maith"— John Good——

"Seán gan Mhaith."

O! Bhain tú as mo bhéal é. Dubhairt sé nach mbeadh seisean i nagaidh dá bhfuigeadh sé fuagra chúig bhliadna go raibh a leitheidíd'á dhéanamh. Nach bhfuilimid ag tabhairt fuagra dhóibh agus cad é an mhaith atá ann? Níl, agus d'á léitheidí le fiche mbliain ná dá bhfuighead siad dhá fhichead eile, acht deirtear gur maith an rud "gradh nó faitchíos." Níl an "gradh" aca, agus mar sin caithfear an "faitchíos" a chur i géill. Anois, níl amhras nach faitchios, agus bualadh agus fuagra agus gach uile mhí-ádh eile a chuimhnigheadar air a ruaigh ár dteanga dhúthchais as an tír. Mara bhfuilimid i ndan í a thabhairt ar ais le réidhteach, caithfimid i a thabhairt ar ais ar an mbealach ceudna 'nár díbríughadh é.

Dubhairt Teachta Ó Beirne, nuair bhí sé ag labhairt i n-aghaidh an Bhille, nár chomórtas an tír seo agus an Bhreatain Bhig—an áit dá labhróchá-sa i nBéarla le duine aca, d'freagróchadh sé i bBeurla thú, agus go niompóchadh sé ar ais agus go labhróchadh sé i mBreathnas le duine d'á mhuinntir féin, gídh go raibh Beurla ag gach duine aca. Táim cinnte go bhuil eolas cruinn ag go leór Teachtaí ar an mBreatain, ar an nGréig, ar an bhFrainne agus ar an nGearrmáin agus gan acht fíorbheagán eolais aca ar a dtír féin. Dá dtagadh Teachta Ó Beirne, agus na Teachtaí eile atá i naghaidh an Bhille seo go dtí mo cheanntar-sa, chidhfeadh siad go bhfuil an rud ceudna le cloisteál ann agus atá sa mBreatain Bhig. Castar an oiread Sasanach orm-sa le go leor daoine agus labhraim leo i na dteangain féin acht labhraim le muinntir mo cheanntire féin ann mo theangain dhúthchais féin.

Na daoine a leag an cheud chloch de'n Tigh seo—An Piarrsach, Eamonn Ceannt agus Seán Mhac Diarmaid—ní do'n Bhreatain Bhig, do'n Bhreatain Mhór ná go tír ar bith eile a chuadar acht imeasg fíor Ghaedhilgeóirí Chonnamara gur fhógluimeadar an teanga. D'fhagaibh siad sinne leis an teangaidh thuas agus thuas a chaithfeasmuid í do choinneáil.

Labhair Teachta Ó Fathaigh faoi chúirt i n-Doire-an-Fhiadh. Bhí mise ag cúirt i gCarna 'ár thug gach uile dhuine de na fiadhnuisibh fiadhnuise i nGaedhilg. D'innis an fear Teangain do'n Bhreithimh é, agus nuair thug seisean bhreitheamhnas labhair sé, ar a laghad leathuair i mBeurla ag tabhairt comhairle do na daoinibh seo, má bfíor dó féin, agus níor iarr sé ar an bhFear Teangain, focal d'ár dhubhairt sé a mhíniughadh dhóibh.

Acht anois tá athrughadh ar an sgéal. Tá fíor-Ghaedheal i na Bhreitheamh san áit, a bhfuil an teanga Gaedhilge ar a chómhairle féin aige. Anois, i gCondae na Gaillimhe, tá 75,579 Gaedhilgeóirí agus nach bhfuil iachall ar ár Rialtas dlighe a dhéanamh ionnus go mbeadh comhthrom na Féinne aca seo agus gan dligheadóirí a bheith in a measg gan Gaedhilge a bheith aca.

Dá mbadh teanga iasachta a bheadh an Bille ag iarraidh a chur i bhféidhim, táim cinnte nach mbeadh na daoine seo atá in aghaidh an Bhille leath chomh dúthrachtach in a aghaidh agus atá siad.

Nois, faoi h-ailt a trí agus a cúig, má baintear iad seo amach tá sé chómh maith an Bille a stróiceadh ar fad. Na sgrúidtheóirí a bheadhas dá sgrúdadh, tá súil agam nach dtíubhraidh siad teist dóibh má bhíonn siad i ndan "Do Thighearna," nó "O Onóir" nó "cad é an t-ainm atá ort" nó "lá breágh" a rádh, mar sé mo bharamhail-sa gur mó an dochar atá déanta ag ann a léighthéidí seo go chúis na teangain ná rud ar bith eile. Tá eolas agam-sa ar dhaoinibh go bhfuil teistis aca agus gan fiche focal Gaedhilge i na bpluic. Cuid aca ag iarraidh bheith dá múineadh, acht an té a bhíos a magadh bíonn a leath faoi féin. Tá súil agam nach mbeidmuidne ag magadh faoi'n gceist seo níos fuide.

Chomh cinnte agus atá muidne annseo gabhfamuid ar Sluagh na Marbh. Chomh cinnte agus go rachamuid ar Sluagh na Marbh sgríobhfar Stair na h-Aimsire seo. Chomh cinnte agus sgróibhfar í, sí an cheist a iarraidhead fear a shríobhtha dhe fhéin—Ceurd a rinnemuid do'n Ghaedhilg ná do'n Ghaedhealtacht?

Tá súil agam nach mbeidh sé le rádh aige gur leig "Béal la h-uaighe áit ag Béal na Truaighe.

DOMHNALL UA BUACHALLA

Go máiridh tú i bhfad!

I support this Bill for three or four reasons. One reason that appeals most to me is that I have the honour to represent the county which gave birth to Father O'Growney, and which has the honour of holding his remains to-day. Coming from such a county I do not think it is possible for anyone not to do everything that could possibly be done to assist the language movement. As most Deputies know, Father O'Growney found the language in a dying state in County Meath. With the assistance of a group he revived the language, and to-day it can be heard spoken at least in the district in which he was born. There are other reasons why I should support this Bill. Unfortunately I have no knowledge of the language, but it is quite easy to see and understand that our language has a most important bearing on the future of the country, both from the intellectual and the commercial points of view. Language is the hallmark of any nation, and all over the world nations have made desperate efforts to revive their languages. Not only that, but we find that writers and historians have always admired, respected and looked up to these nations that have made efforts for the revival of their languages. That may be from the cultural point of view, but I believe it will also have an important bearing from the commercial point of view. If we are not in a position, when we produce goods, to export them under an Irish name, and with Irish instructions, these goods will at once lose their individuality in foreign countries; they will be simply classed as the products of other countries. I believe it is most important that the individuality of any products we produce should be strictly preserved. These are some of my reasons for supporting this Bill, because it is one aiming at the revival of a language that so many laws and so many Bills passed in another country attempted to destroy.

DOMHNALL UA BUACHALLA

Ba mhaith liom cupla focal a rá ar an gceist seo.

The Deputy will pardon me for interrupting, but I think he has already spoken on this Bill.

DOMHNALL UA BUACHALLA

Nior dhubhairt mé ach focal no dó. Ba mhaith liom rá ná raibh an oiread san náire orm riamh lem' shaol agus a bhí tráthnóna Dé Céadaoin seo caithte nuair a b'éigin dom suidhe anso agus éisteacht le n-a raibh le rá ag Eireannaigh i gcoinne a dteangan féin. Chuirfeadh sé náire ar dhuine daoine do bheith ag teacht ar son an náisiúin, no an mhéid atá fághtha dhe, agus seasamh anso chun aghaidh bhéil do thabhairt ar Theachta go raibh sé de sprid aige an Bille seo do thabhairt isteach d'fhonn is a iarraidh ar lucht dlí teanga a tíre féin d'úsáid. Rud náireach isea é aon Eireannach d'fheicsint ina sheasamh ag deanamh suarachais dá theangain féin; ceann de sna teangacha is sine agus is glaine i Roinn na hEorpa. Teanga isea i gur ceart d'Eireannaigh bheith morálach na taobh, agus úsáid do bhaint aisti agus í chur chun cinn. Tá fhios againn conus ar cuireadh an Béarla chun cinn sa tír seo. Bímíd ag cainnt mar gheall ar an nGaedhilg do dhéanamh éifeantach. An dtugamiúd aon iarracht chun a dhéanamh amach conus a cuireadh d'iachall ar na daoine glaca le béarla Shasna? Tá sé orainn anois teanga na hEireann do chur san ait gur ceart dí bheith agus an Béarla do scuaba chun fáin, agus nuair a thiocfaidh an lá san is mó ar fad an meas a bheidh ag tiortha eile ar an tír seo ná mar atá fé láthair.

Dubhairt an Teachta Antoine an lá fé dheire gur am caillte ar leanbhaí an t-am a chaitheann fé láthair ag foghluim Gaedhilge san scoileanna, mar ná raibh éinne sa bhaile chun Gaedhilge do labhairt leo. Is fíor an méid sin fé láthair, ach pé slí é, fágháidh na buachaillí agus na cailíní seo an scoil agus eolas éigin aca ar an nGaedhilg agus beidh an t-eolas san ag dul i bhfeabhas in aghaidh an lae. Fásfaidh na leanbhaí seo suas, pósfaidh siad, beidh a bpáistí féin aca, le congnamh Dé. Raghaidh na leanbhaí seo ar scoil agus múinfear Gaedhilg dóibh; raghaid a bhaile agus nuair a bheid ag pléireác timpal an bhúird am caithte bidh déanfa siad usaid de'n Ghaedhilg d'fhoghluimíodar. Cloisfidh a dtuismitheóirí iad ag cainnt na Gaedhilge, éisteoid leo go cúramach agus beidh an-áthas ortha nuair a gheobhaid amach go dtuigeann siad an Ghaedhilg atá ghá labhairt ag na páistí. Ní hé amháin go mbeidh áthas ortha ach beidh mórtas ortha go dtuigeann siad na leanbhaí ag cainnt agus socróidh siad na n-aigne congnamh do thabhairt dóibh. Do réir mar bheidh na daoine ag fás suas, beidh an Ghaedhilg ag fáil greim ionta agus bheidh sí ag dul i neart. Ar an abhar san, ní cailliúint ama é—an t-am a chaitheann na leanbhaí ag foghluim Gaedhilge sna scoileanna indiu. Dá mba rud é ná tabharfaí an Ghaedhilg thar n-ais féin, ní am cailte a bheadh ann, mar is mór an congnamh dóibh an dara teanga chun abhair eile d'fhoghluim.

I wish to say that I never felt more ashamed in my life than on Wednesday evening last, when I had to sit here and listen to what was said by Irishmen against their own language. The fact that representatives of the nation, or what is left of it to us should stand up here and abuse the Deputy who had the temerity to bring in this Bill, to ask the lawyers to use the language of their country, was humiliating. It was humiliating to see any Irishman standing up and decrying the use of his own language; one of the oldest and one of the purest in Europe. It is a language that Irishmen ought to take a pride in using and in developing. We know how the English language was pushed into this country. We talk about compulsory Irish. Do we ever try to realise how the English language was foisted on the people? It is up to us to bring the Irish language back to its proper place, and to hunt the English language out, and when that day comes the country will be held in far higher esteem by other countries than it is at present.

Deputy Anthony said the other day that the time spent by children learning Irish in the schools at present was time lost, that when they left school and went home there was nobody at home to talk Irish to them. That is true at present, but these boys and girls at any rate will leave school with some knowledge of Irish, and as years go by that knowledge will be improving. These children will grow up, they will marry, they will have children of their own, please God. These children will go to school and will be taught Irish; they will go to their homes, and when they are playing and around the table at meal-times they will use some of the Irish they have learned at school. The parents will hear them use the Irish, they will listen attentively and they will be very pleased when they find that they understand some of the Irish that the children are speaking. Not alone will they be pleased but they will be proud of the fact that they do understand their children talking the Irish, and they will make up their minds to help them. As each succeeding generation comes along the Irish will be getting its grip on the people and will be strengthened in its position. Therefore, the time spent by the children learning Irish in the schools to-day is not lost time. If they never brought back the Irish it would not be lost time, because the fact that they learn a second language is of great help to them in learning other subjects as well.

Deputy Wolfe said that the movement for the revival of the Irish would injure the law schools and other schools; that it would prevent foreign scholars from coming here to be educated in special branches of knowledge. Does the Deputy know that when Irish, and Irish only, was the language of the country these people came from all parts of Europe to be educated, and they did not baulk at the Irish language? We must assume that the first thing they had to do when they came here—and they came in thousands— was to learn Irish, and they did not baulk at it. I venture to say that until Irish gets its proper place in the schools and colleges of Ireland, until we link up with that past and give our language the place it ought to have in our country we will not attract scholars to our colleges and universities in the numbers that we should attract them if we had our own language. I believe that when that day comes we shall attract great numbers of scholars from all parts of Europe and from America, because we shall have our distinct civilisation. If foreign scholars want specialised education; they do not go to a second-rate English-speaking country for that education; they go direct to Oxford and Cambridge, where they will get a first-rate English education, and there is no reason why they should come to a country like this. But if they recognise that this is a distinct nation, speaking its own language and having its own national characteristics, they will come here to be educated if they get a better education than they would in England, and I have no doubt that, with the revival and the use of our own language, we will be able to give them as good an education as they would get in England, or a better one. The people who imitate the traits, characteristics and language of another country are despised, and deservedly so, by the people of that country. The imitator is always despised by the persons he imitates. We are practically a nation of slaves to-day, imitating the people of another country. Why should that be so? Ought we not to have some pride in our country, in our own national characteristics, traits and language? Until we have that love of country we shall not be esteemed by the other nations of the world, and justly so. Let us be Irishmen and let our women be Irishwomen; let us realise the position we ought to hold in the world, and then we shall have the respect of the world. Until we do that we shall not have the respect of the world.

I congratulate Deputy Conlon on having brought in this Bill. It will certainly do good. The lawyers need not complain that it will be hard on them. They have had plenty of time to realise that the Irish language is going to take its place in the country again, the place it should have always had. The Gaelic League has been in existence for the last twenty-five or thirty years and the Irish language is being taught on a wide scale in the schools for the last five or six years. I suppose some people were of the opinion that they need not pay any attention to it, that it was only a passing phase. They must, however, realise now that the language has come to stay. There are, thank God, people still in the country who mean to work to that end, namely, that the Irish language shall take the place in the country that it ought to take.

As for Deputy Dr. Hennessy's contribution to this debate through the medium of the "Independent," I am glad that one important point in Irish history has been cleared up anyhow. That is, that Deputy Hennessy is descended from the Firbolgs. Of course, he complains that the Gaels came in after the Firbolgs, conquered them, and prevented them from attaching the prefix Mac or O to their names. That is the reason he tells us why he has not MacAonghusa as his name. I can assure him that the Gaels of the present day will not put any obstacle in the way of allowing him to put the prefix Mac or O to his name if he so desires or if he has the courage to put it there and in future call himself MacAonghusa and not Hennessy.

It is not my intention to occupy the House very long at this late hour, but I do not wish to give a silent vote on such an important question as this. I wish to say at the beginning that it is my intention to vote against the Bill. When I say that I intend to vote against it, I do not want anyone to understand that I am deadly opposed to the Irish language.

No, you only want to kill it.

We will give the Deputy a chance afterwards. I do not interrupt the Deputy when he speaks. I do not think that the Government are proceeding in the right way for the benefit of the Irish language; but having said this, I hope no one will think that I am in deadly opposition to the language. Heretofore it has not been our system to use compulsion. It had not been the system of the late regime in this country to use compulsion in this matter. Consequently, we feel very much when we are told that we must do certain things under compulsion, and that if we do not do them then we will have to abide by the consequences. The fact that the Government have disclaimed responsibility for this Bill will not relieve them of the responsibility in the eyes of the man in the street. People undoubtedly consider that it has been hatched under Government supervision and is being brought forth by the influence of one of their Party. We cannot see why this means is taken of forcing the language on this particular profession. It is evidently against their wish it is being done, because there have been various means tried to get them to take up the Irish language. As far as I know, and I believe I am correctly informed, there have been medals and superior marks offered to any student who passes his examination taking the Irish language as a subject.

It would be very interesting to know why this particular profession has been selected. Is it a matter of placing another brick upon the already troublesome Border question, or is it a matter of trying to drive our children to other centres across the Border and elsewhere, or is it possible that the language is not getting the support which the Government have been expecting, and, sooner than admit that the country has thrown the dice against the language, they are now willing to make another great effort regardless of cost or of any loss to the profession? I have been told by people who are supposed to be in the know, and to have considerable influence, that it is useless for Deputies on these benches to oppose this move. We have been told that the two big parties are out to see which can get the most credit in this political game, and until that is decided, or until they decide that the game is not worth the candle and that they are only losing time, the struggle will be continued for some time to come.

It is estimated that the cost of teaching the Irish language is something like half a million. According to the valuable letter which we had a few days ago, and which, up to the present, has not been contradicted, that half a million would almost pay the interest on £10,000,000. I would like to know if the Government will put it to the country as a straight issue whether the farmers would be willing to get a loan at a moderate interest, say 2½ per cent., or consent to be further taxed in respect of this unwanted service. Are we to take it that Deputies who were complaining so much about the housing question last Wednesday and about unemployment would rather see the language supported to this enormous amount than to have the money devoted towards giving employment to the starving people in the country? It has been stated here repeatedly that we do not want to educate our people for export. I wonder if parents can say what walk in life they are educating their children for. It is a very big question, and I think it is a terrible thing to try in any way to stop energetic members of Irish families from seeking a livelihood in other countries. I wonder whether a great many people here are aware that banks which cannot collect money due them are prepared to advance more money to get people to go to a foreign land and send home money from there which will not only repay the banks but also will restock the lands. If the Irish language is to be forced to the extent that we will prevent our people going abroad, we will be making a very severe mistake. I think Deputies should realise the blessing which the English language affords in the sense that our people can go abroad and get positions in other countries the moment they land, and so avoid having to wait for months or a considerable length of time to acquire a knowledge of a universal language.

Have not enough gone out of the country already?

They are going in thousands every week.

Déunaim cómhgháirdeachas le Teachta O Conalláin agus le Teachta Mac Pháidín mar gheall ar an mBille a thug siad isteach. Chímíd anois na daoine atá ar thaobh na teangan agus na daoine atá in aghaidh na teangan. Na Teachtaí do labhair in aghaidh an Bhille iniu, ba cheart dóibh an méid a dubhairt siad a rá sé no seacht de bhliantaibh ó shoin nuair a bhí polasaí an Rialtais dá chur i bhféidhm. Cuireadh tús ar pholasaí an Rialtais sna sgoileanna agus cadé an mhaith a bheith ag cainnt agus ag seabhóideadh mar a mbeadh sé in ár gcomhacht deire do chur leis an bpolasaí sin anois. An méid airgid do caitheadh ar an bpolasaí sin, tá sé caithte; an méid Gaedhilge atá foghlumtha tá sé foghlumtha. Rinneadh tús an polasaí sin do chur i bhféidhm. Ach, ó'n méid do chuala mé annso, isé mo bharúil nách mbeadh aithmheula ar dhaoine áirithe dá gcuirfi deire leis an bpolasaí sin imbáireach—nach mbeadh brón ná aithmheula ar na dlígheadóirí no cuid mhaith de na sagairt, no de na dochtúirí no de na daoine léigheannta eile ar fud na tíre. B'fhéidir nách mbeadh brón mór ar lucht oibre ach oiread óir dubhairt an Teachta Antoine nár thuig sé an sgeul. Ní thuigeann siad an sgeul—tar éis an rí rá atá ann le cúpla bliain.

Mar a dubhairt mo chara, An Teachta Domhnall Ua Buachalla, tá sprid nua tagaithe sna sgoileanna. Tá furmhór na n-oide ag déanamh a ndíchioll ar son na teangan. Tá an teanga ghá labhairt go maith ag an cuid is mó de na páistí. Agus na páistí atá idir 17 agus 18 mbliana d'aois agus atá tar éis cúrsa d'fháil sna scoileanna idir mheadhonaigh, tá níos mó Gaedhilge acu ná mar bhí ag na cigiri agus daoine a bhí ag obair faoi Chonnradh na Gaedhilge 20 bliain ó shoin. Isé tuairim na páistí fhéin gur ceart an teanga a bheith ghá mhúineadh ins na sgoileanna. Níl siad in aghaidh na teangan. I dtosach, b'fhéidir nach mbíonn siad i ngrádh leis an dteangain a gcuid de na sgoileanna. Tá fhios agam go bhfuil scoileanna i mBaile Atha Claith atá ag fáil airgid as Gaedhilg do mhúineadh agus nách bhfuil an teanga ghá múineadh ionnta in aon chor. Ach sa sgoileanna ar fud na tíre tá áthas i gcroidhthibh na bpáistí a bheith ag foghluim na Gaedhilge. Tá an furmhór acu in ann comhrádh do dhéunamh as Gaedhilg agus béidh bród orra má fheiceann siad go bhfuillimíd annso ag déanamh ar gcion ar son na teangan.

Tá orainn d'fheiceáil nách mbeidh an t-am do chaith na páisti seo ag foghluim na Gaedhilge caillte ortha, go mbeidh áit dóibh in a dtír féin agus go mbeidh póstanna ar fáil acu; nách mbéidh an scéal fé mar bhí sé sé no seacht de bhliantaibh ó shoin i rith réim an Chaisleain nuair nach raibh aon mheas, ach a mhalairt, ar dhligheadóirí a bhí ar thaobh an náisiún—gidh gur beag náisiúntachta a bhí i gcroidhthibh an chuid ba mhó acu. Tá athrú tagaithe anois. Ceist nua atá ghá phlé againn anois, mar adubhairt an tAire Airgid. Tá tús déanta againn. B'fhéidir nach raibh sé ceart ar gach dóigh ach tá sé déanta againn. Tá daoine sa tír agus níl siad ag dul ar aghaidh leis an saol atá ann. Faoi'n sean réim, bhí siad chó sclábhamhail sin go raibh siad ar thaobh an Rialtais i gcomhnuidhe. Anois, tá Rialtas eile ann agus polasaí nua acu. Faoi'n polasaí sin, tá an teanga ghá mhúineadh sna sgoileanna le seacht mbliana anois agus tá sé riachtanach i gcóir Seirbhíse an Stáit ach níl na daoine léigheannta ag déanamh a gcion ar a son. Tá dlígheadóir Stáit i ngach condae sa Saorstát ach ní shaoilim go bhfuil aon dlígheadóir sa Stát ag déanamh a dhicheall ar son na teangan. Is mithid deire do chur leis sin.

Ó cuireadh tús ar an bpolasaí seo, bhí am ag na dlígheadóirí féachaint isteach sa cheist seo. Bhí fhios acu nach raibh críoch leis an bpolasaí sin. Cibé seans a bhí ag an "oppressed minority" deire do chur leis an bpolasaí sin uair amhain, níl aon tseans acu anois, mar tá na Teachtaí ar an dtaobh so den Tigh. chó maith leis na Teachtaí ar an dtaobh eile, go láidir ar son na teangan. Mar gheall ar san, rachaidh an teanga ar aghaidh.

Má fheicimíd thart, chímíd nach bhfuil lucht léigheannta ag déanamh a ndícheall fá'n gceist seo—na dochtúirí, no na dlígheadóirí no na sagairt féin. Tá paróisti san nGaeltacht agus dá mbeadh an méid atá déanta ionnta ag Roinn an Oideachais agus ag na múinteóirí deanta ag na sagairt, bheidh an teanga sábhálta. Ach níl ach fíor-chor duine imeasc na sagairt ag déanamh a dhícheall. Ach nuair a fheiceann siad go bhfuilimíd ag tabhairt aire do na fóir-éigeantóirí imease na dlígheadóirí tuigfidh siad go bhfuilimíd i ndáiríribh. Nuair a fheiceann na daoine léigheannta an méid Gaedhilge do labhradh annso iniú—tá súil agam go mbeidh a thuille againn sul a bhfad—tuigfidh siad nach bhfuil aon stád leis an bpolasaí nua agus gur mithid dóibh bheith a bogadh.

Mar gheall ar na doctúirí, gidh go bhfuil an Ghaedhilg riachtanach san Ollscoil Náisúinta le 15 bliana, níl aon nídh déanta acu. Is dó liom go bhfuil an Ollscoil níos measa ná na dlígheadóirí no na doctúiri féin. Níl aon rud déanta acu chun an teanga do chur chun chinn. Na daoine ag a bhfuil céimeanna ón Ollscoil le déanaí, níl leath an sprid acu agus a bhí ag na mic léighinn a bhí ann blianta ó shoin. Teasbáineann an díosbóireacht so gur mithid do na hOllscoileanna—ní amháin Coláiste na Trionóide ach an Ollscoil Náisiúnta agus Coláiste Magh Nuadhacht—níos mó do dhéanamh ar son na teangan ná mar tá ghá dhéunamh acu fá láthair.

Tá fhios ag na daoine léigheannta nách féidir an teanga do tharraingt thar n-ais agus nách féidir don chúis dul ar aghaidh agus í a brath ar chongnamh an lucht oibre agus na bpáistí amháin. Ce'n fáth gur chuaidh Béarla ar aghaidh san mBreatain Mhóir agus an Fhrainncis sa bhFrainnc? Mar gur chuidigh na daoine uaisle agus na daoine léigheannta le canúint áirithe. Bhí cúpla teanga ga labhairt 'san mBreatain agus sa bhFrainnc. Thaoibhigh na daoine uaisle agus na cúirteanna le teanga speisiálta agus bhí an bhuaidh ag an teanga san. Chuaidh an Béarla agus an Frainncis ar aghaidh agus bualadh ar an Provencal agus ar na teangacha eile. An cheist atá againne, tá sé ghá phlé i Roinn na hEorpa iniú. Cuir i gcás Bohemia. Díbearadh an Almáinis as Bohemia. Ón méid a léighim agus ón méid a chluinim, creidim anois go bhfuil sé in aghaidh an dlí i Czecho-Slovakia Almáinis do labhairt—gur coir é do na Bohemians a dteanga féin do labhairt. In Alsace, tá fhois againn go bhfuil Rialtas na Frainnce ag iarraidh a dteanga féin a chur isteach agus an Almáinis do bhrughadh amach. In Esthonia agus i dtíortha nua eile tá siad ag iarraidh a dteanga féin do tharraingt thar nais. Agus sinne atá ag maoidheamh as ar gcultúr leis na ceadta blian agus ag cainnt agus ag sior cainnt ar stair na tíre, taimíd chun dul ar gcul agus an méid atá déanta againn a chur ar neamh ní, toisc go bhfuil cúpla duine, cosamhail le Teachta de Bhuibh, in ár gcoinne—daoine go bhfuil fhios acu go bhfoillseoigh an "Irish Times" a n-oráidí in aghaidh na Gaedhilge agus nách gcuirfidh siad i gcló fiu agus focal de na hóraidí a dineadh as Gaedhilg, no má cuirfidh siad ní dhéanfaidh siad é i gceart. Tá an "Irish Times" i gcomhnuí ag caoine mar gheall ar imtheacht na Sasannach as an tír seo agus tá an Teachta de Bhulb ag caoine mar gheall ar imtheacht an Bhéarla agus na mBearlóirí. Ach ní cuirfear stad orainn mar gheall ar sin.

Is áthas liom a fheicáil arís an sprid a bhí in ar gcroidhthibh 20 bliain ó shoin. Deunaim comh-ghairdeachas le Teachta O Conchubhair, le h-Aire an Rialtais Aitiúla agus leis na Teachtaí eile do labhair chó maith a gus chó spridiuil ar an mBille seo agus níl aon amhras agam ná go bhfuil an rud ceart á dhéanamh againn anois.

Bhí tagairt do cheist eile dtaobh an Bhille seo—nách raibh aon chó-chomhairle idir na daoine a thug isteach é agus na Benchers agus na abhcóid. Mar adubhairt an Teachta O Fathaigh, fuaireadar faill an rud ceart do dhéanamh. Do chuir an Príomh-Bhreitheamh an cheist os a gcomhair agus d'iarr sé orra rud éigin do dhéanamh. Ní deárnadh é. Tá fhios againn nách mbeadh an sgeul mar sin dá mbeadh siad fá réim an tsean-Chaisleain. Dheunfaidís fé mar iarrfaí orra. Ba maith an rud go dtuigfeadh siad go bhfuil athrú ann anois agus an rud nách ndeárna siad ar athchuinge an Phríomh-Bhreithimh dheinfimíd é ar a son.

Mar gheall ar na leasuithe, aontuighim le Teachta O Cléirigh go mba cheart an aois a athrú in alt a 2 ó 16 bliana go 18 bliana. Ní shaoilim go bhfuil mórán den fhirinne san leith sgeul-nach mbeidh am ag na mic léighinn an Ghaedhilg d'fhoghluim. Ní bheidh an scrúdú ro-dheacair. Tá an teanga ghá mhúineadh i ngach bunscoil agus i ngach meadhon-scoil san tír agus tá súil agam go ndeunfaidh na hOllscoileanna níos mó ar a son feasta. Má dheunfaidh siad, ní bheidh mórán trioblóide ar na mic léighinn dlí a ndóthain Gaedhilge d'fhoghluim.

Tá súil agam go ndéanfaimíd níos mó ná mar atá san mBille seo ar son na Gaedhilge. Tá suil agam go gcuirfear ar bun annso cumann de Chonnradh na Gaedhilge i dtreó agus go mbeimid in ann a thuile do dhéanamh ar son na, teangan agus nach mbeimíd faoi'n masla do chuir an Teachta de Bhulbh orainn an lá fá dheireadh—nach raibh ach an deichiú cuid de na Teachtaí in ánn rud ar bith do dhéanamh tré Ghaedhilg agus an méid sin nách raibh siad á dhéunamh. Aontuighim le Teachta O Cléirigh, chó maith, go mba cheart cur sios go cruinn ar an bhrí atá leis na bhfocail "competent knowledge." Tá a lán daoine a fuair póstanna san Saorstát, mar adubhairt An Teachta O Mongáin, mar gheall ar an "competent knowledge" a bhí acu agus is beag eolais a bhí acu ar an teanga. Tá daoine agus teistiméireachtaí acu agus níl siad in ánn a gcuid oibre do dhéanamh i gceart tré Ghaedhilg. Ba cheart duinn an saghas eolas atá uainn do chur síos go cruinn.

Is dó liom go bhfuil an iomad comhachta san mBille ag an bPríomh-Breitheamh. Tá air a bheith sásta go bhfuil Gaedhilg ag an abhcóide no dligheadóir agus b'fhéidir go mbeadh air dul in aghaidh an Chumainn Dlí. Má tá scrúdú le bheith ann, ba chóir duinn muinighin a bheith againn as. Ba chóir dúinn a bheith sásta roimh ré gur scrúdú ceart a bhéas ann agus nach n-neireóchaidh le duine ar bith gan eolas ceart a bheith aige ar an dteanga. Ní cóir an t-ualach so do chur ar guailnibh an Phríomh-Breithimh.

Anois, tairgím go gcuirtear an díosbóireacht ar ath-ló.

Debate adjourned.
Top
Share