Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 27 Jun 1929

Vol. 30 No. 15

Question on the Adjournment. - Entertainment Tax on County Cork Concert.

Mr. Corry

I gave notice to-day that I would raise on the motion for the adjournment the matter dealt with in question No. 2 on to-day's Order Paper. I am raising the matter because I think the case, taking it all round, has been most unfairly met. The Committee in in this case was organised for the purpose of doing something to make that particular locality attractive for visitors generally and particularly for visitors going there for the week-end from the city of Cork and other places. The Committee consists of the parish priest, the curate and six other members who have no financial interest whatever in the undertaking. The idea of charging them something like £5 16s. tax on a concert which was held for the purpose of raising funds to carry out the object for which the Committee was formed is in my opinion carrying this matter in relation to the entertainment tax too far. As a matter of fact, practically all the entertainment held in rural districts are more or less of a philanthropic character. I consider that any entertainment which is organised in a rural district, and which tends to render rural life less burdensome on the rural community, is of a philanthropic character and should not be taxed. The Revenue Commissioners not only charge this, to my mind, most unfair and unjust tax in the case of this concert, but they went further in the way of piling on the agony. When the people who organised the concert returned unsold tickets to the value of £2 9s. 7d. the Revenue Commissioners deducted out of that the sum of 14/11 and retained that for some unknown reason. The Minister in his reply to-day made the allegation that this money was kept because the tickets returned were not apparently in sequence. The regulations made enjoin that tickets when sold be torn in two halves. The fact that the tickets were intact when returned to the Revenue Commissioners proves that they were not sold. I think that the Revenue Commissioners, in this particular instance, are acting somewhat in the fashion of a Jewman or perhaps something worse—the part of an extortionate moneylender who goes to look for his last pound of flesh. I think that some definite steps should be taken in the matter and that something should be done to put an end to this kind of game. The matter has been carried too far, and I would ask the Minister to see that an end is put to it. I consider that the case has been very unfairly met here. I think that the Committee have been very unfairly treated in having a tax levied on this concert at all. The Minister apparently is accustomed to dealing with people who try to trick him out of everything. That seems to be the assumption on which the Revenue Commissioners are working. I think that could be gathered from the Minister's statement the other day about the bookmakers when he said that he thought they were most unfair and unjust people. He follows that up in this instance by his treatment of the people connected with this concert.

I do not think the Minister could urge that the parish priest or the curate entered into this from any other motive than a philanthropic one. I am afraid he does not realise that we have some philanthropists down in that district. As a matter of fact, we have a philanthropist down there who was concerned with this matter, and who was given something like £2,000 from the loyalists' distress fund in that district during the last few months. I think that the Minister should look into this matter again and give it fairer consideration than he has given it up to the present. Apparently, the Revenue Commissioners are instructed to deal with these matters on the supposition that they are dealing with a gang of rogues or vagabonds. That is the only conclusion anyone could come to from the attitude of the Commissioners in this particular case. I consider it is adding insult to injury turning around and taking this 14/11 as a tax on unsold tickets which were returned to them, and not torn as specified in the regulations. That is carrying the matter too far, and the Minister should give it a more sympathetic consideration than he did earlier in the day. I think those people for whom I am speaking have been unfairly treated.

Mr. Blythe

If a concert is held in aid of local funds, for the St. Vincent de Paul Society, or any such purpose, there is no question about exemption of tax. It is allowed without question, but for such a purpose as that for which this concert was held, I think the Commissioners had no option. I do not think that town improvement could be regarded as a charitable or philanthropic object.

Mr. Corry

This was a village.

Mr. Blythe

It is the same whether it is a town or village. There can be no question that the Commissioners, on the report of the collector at Cork, were bound to come to the conclusion they did with regard to the question of the 14/11. It may be that was hard on the Committee, but on matters such as this the Commissioners have to act according to rule. They must have a uniform practice. That practice is that there must be no possibility that tickets which are returned for repayment were actually used. In the ordinary way the Commissioners assure themselves of that by the fact that they remit on the pad or roll in serial order. The person who is giving the entertainment and putting stamps on the tickets should take them off one by one as he requires them, and then what remains will be on the original pad or roll in their proper order. If that is done they are allowed for them, but where you get a broken series of stamps detached from the roll or pad the possibility exists that they may have been used. It is not necessary that the Commissioners should be convinced that they have been used.

Mr. Corry

The usual practice in rural districts, especially for a concert of this description, is to give the tickets out in bundles of about a dozen or two for sale in the district. They are usually sold earlier than the date on which the concert is held. You just give two dozen tickets to a person and say "Sell those for me." That is why these tickets were not in serial order when they were sent back.

Mr. Blythe

Is it the point that they were stamped before given out?

Mr. Corry

Stamped tickets were bought.

Mr. Blythe

That was not a wise procedure. I do not know whether the Commissioners could accept any explanation like that.

Mr. Corry

If they came down and found that the tickets were not torn could not they prosecute?

Mr. Blythe

Certainly.

Mr. Corry

The fact that these tickets were not torn shows that they were all right when returned. If not they could prosecute.

Mr. Blythe

It does not actually follow. The Commissioners have to act on some general rule which would apply everywhere. Otherwise, there is bound to be grave dissatisfaction. They have this rule which has been adopted to prevent the possibility of tickets being used and not torn—of somebody collecting the tickets and holding them. That might happen. The Commissioners have adopted the rule of accepting back only those which remain on the original pad. They might, at their discretion, if there were a strong case, vary that rule, but a strong case would need to be made. It is a matter in which I would not intervene, because it is the people who are acting from day to day who know best the need for various precautions. I cannot recommend the Deputy to do anything further than to put up a case to the Commissioners in the clearest and strongest way for accepting these tickets. As I have said, it is a kind of matter in which I certainly would not intervene to use any pressure on those who are administering the Act, because I know the danger of departing from any rule which experience has shown to be necessary in a general way.

Mr. Briscoe

Could the Minister say if he will consider an application made by the local committee through the parish priest for the return of this 14/11, provided the definite statement is made in that application that these tickets were not actually used, and the circumstances explained as to how they became detached?

Mr. Blythe

It is not the kind of matter I regard as suitable for ministerial intervention. I would not undertake in a matter of this kind to intervene at all. It is too much a question of detail and a type of matter that can only be satisfactorily judged by those who are engaged in administering the Act.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.40 p.m. until 10.30 on Friday.