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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 31 Jul 1929

Vol. 31 No. 6

Police Activities in Clare.

As the Dáil was about to adjourn on the last occasion, I sought permission to call the attention of the House to a case of ill-treatment about which I had just heard that afternoon. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle ruled that I could not raise the matter, and as I got subsequent confirmatory information, I thought it my duty to pay a visit to Co. Clare and to see the man who was ill-treated. Accordingly, on Monday, July 15th, I went to Clare and saw this man. A short while after I returned I sent a letter to the President of the Executive Council which was written from the notes of the statements made to me by this man, Mr. T.J. Ryan, of Cranny, Co. Clare. I think that the best way for me to give the House the information would be to read the letter.

"Concerning the maltreatment on several occasions of Mr. T. J. Ryan, of Cranny, Kilrush, Co. Clare, by members of the Detective Branch of the Civic Guard:—

"July 17th, 1929.

"To the President of the Executive Council.

"I wish to draw your attention personally to the following:

"(1) On June 16th last, on his way home from Bodenstown with five companions, Mr. T.J. Ryan, of Cranny, Kilrush, Co. Clare, was held up on the road between Clarecastle and Ennis by two members of the Detective Division, ordered to leave the car, and searched.

"On refusing to give an account of his movements (he had already been held up three times on the journey from Sallins), Mr. Ryan was pushed against a wall, threatened, and struck repeatedly on the stomach and chest. He was then ordered into the car, and, as he was entering, one of the detectives rushed at him and kicked him. When in the car he was again assaulted, one detective, taking hold of the iron starting handle of the car, struck him with it on the legs, severely wounding him on the shin. The other detective rushed at him and struck him with his fist on the right eye, blackening it. Before he was let go threats of all sorts were made by the detectives, including threats to murder Mr. Ryan. He was treated for injuries to his stomach, leg and eye by Doctors M'Auliffe and O'Dea.

"(2) On July 1st, Mr. Ryan's house was raided, and a watch has been kept since by detectives day and night. No reason was given to Mr. Ryan, either for the raids or for the constant surveillance to which he has been subjected.

"(3) On Sunday, July 7th, about 3 a.m. Mr. Ryan was called from the window of his bedroom and ordered to get up. He got up and opened the door. He was then pulled outside the house by two detectives, and pushed into an adjoining yard. He was repeatedly struck on the face and body, one of the assailants, with a drawn revolver, struck him with it on the body. The second lashed him with what appeared to be a belt on the body and legs. He was maltreated like this for some minutes before he was allowed back to the house.

"(4) On entering, he went to the bedroom of his mother, who is old and an invalid. He was ordered by the detectives to get out of the room or he would be riddled with bullets.

"(5) He then went to his own room and returned to bed. Some time later he was again ordered by a detective from the window to get up. When he opened the door he was once more beaten and kicked. He was then allowed back to bed.

"(6) He got up about seven or eight o'clock. It would appear that the detectives on watch had meanwhile been changed. Whilst preparing breakfast (he resides alone with his mother), he was again struck on the face by a detective. On saying that he would take legal proceedings, the second detective said he saw no assault.

"(7) Mr. Ryan next went out to milk his cows; he was again struck several times, knocked down, punched generally on the body and stomach. This was repeated a number of times whilst he was endeavouring to milk the cows. His ears and hair were pulled, until finally he had to abandon the milking. The milking stool was thrown at him as he left. He was dazed with the beating and went to bed.

"(8) About noon he was again ordered to get up. When he did not obey, the window of his bedroom was raised, and an attempt was made by one of the detectives to get in by it. Being unable to do so, this detective and his companion burst in the door, which was on latch. The two detectives rushed into Mr. Ryan's bedroom; they pulled him out of bed, struck him, threw him down and kicked him. He went back to bed, but was pulled out again and beaten and thrown on the floor. This happened three or four times. Whilst in the bed he was throttled by one of the detectives, the other holding his hands. When lying on his back in the bed also they knelt on his stomach. These assaults were accompanied by abusive and threatening language. All this took place, roughly, between 12 and 1 o'clock. Mr. Ryan's mother was witness to his being beaten in the bedroom.

"Having been told of the assaults on Mr. Ryan, I went to Clare on Monday last; saw Mr. Ryan in his home, and learned from him the above details. As I was approaching Mr. Ryan's house I saw a man beside the house, obviously on duty. He accosted me as I was about to enter, asking my name, which I gave. When I entered he followed; and when Mr. Ryan invited me into his bedroom, he accompanied us and was present in the bedroom whilst I took notes of Mr. Ryan's statements. On leaving, I asked this man his name. He showed me his police card and said his name was Mulkeen. When I reached the road, on leaving Mr. Ryan's house, two men with bicycles, whom I believed to be detectives, signalled me to stop. I was recognised and let pass.

"Mr. Ryan bears on his person marks of the ill-treatment he has received. One of his eyes is black and his shin has medical dressings on it, which I did not let him remove. He is being attended by Dr. O'Dea of Kildysart. He has also been visited by the local curate, Father Austin—both of whom can give evidence of Mr. Ryan's condition and of the condition of his invalid mother.

"The attention of the Minister for Justice has been called more than once to the conduct of some members of the Detective Force in West Clare. He was furnished with affidavits made by citizens who were assaulted by detectives who were named, and was called upon by the Clare Teachtai and by the Clare County Council to hold a public enquiry into the charges made; but he refused to hold an investigation or to take any disciplinary action. His attitude has been such as would encourage unruly members of the Detective Force to believe that their assaults on unarmed citizens had the approval of the Executive Council.

"May I ask why Mr. Ryan is kept virtually a prisoner in his own home; what legal authority there is for it; and whether you will have an enquiry held into the conduct of the Guards who have assaulted Mr. Ryan?

"(Signed) EAMON DE VALERA."

I signed that letter and had it delivered at the office of the President. I got a reply from the office the next day informing me that the President had referred the matter to the Minister for Justice. On 26th July I received the following letter from the Minister for Justice, which I also think it better to read:

"Department of Justice,

"Dublin.

"26th July, 1929.

"A Dhuine Uasail,

"With reference to your letter of the 17th instant addressed to the President and referred by him, as you are already aware, to me, I write to say that I have now completed my inquiries into the charges of assault made to you by T.J. Ryan of Cranny, County Clare, as set forth in your said letter to the President.

"Mr. Ryan's complaint to you appears to be that on the 16th June and again on the 7th July he was assaulted by certain members of the Gárda Síochána. The Gárda concerned emphatically deny the truth of these allegations, and their denial appears to me to be borne out by the facts and circumstances of the case. The story given to you by Mr. Ryan of the assault alleged to have taken place on the 16th June sounds highly improbable, and it is noteworthy that no formal complaint was made by him to any officer of the Gárda Síochána. As regards the 7th July, the police report that when Mr. Ryan was milking one of his cows in his yard on that morning in the presence of the police on duty he was knocked down by the cow he was milking and appears to have received a black eye in consequence. Mr. Ryan apparently proceeds to build up on this accidental injury the long story which he told you, obviously by way of propaganda. It appears to me that the whole value of Mr. Ryan's testimony throughout can be measured from this little episode and in the circumstances I accept the police version.

"With reference to the police surveillance to which Mr. Ryan has subjected himself, I have to say that it is well known that Ryan is the leader of those people in West Clare who desire to upset the established form of Government by violence, and having regard to the nature of this conspiracy it is essential for the preservation of public peace that Mr. Ryan's movements should be watched by the police and they have instructions to do so. Mr. Ryan is at liberty to leave his house any time he likes and there is no foundation for the statement that he is a prisoner.

"I think this answers all the points in your letter.

"Mise, le meas agat,

"(Signed)

"JAMES FITZGERALD-KENNEY,

"Aire Dli agus Cirt.

"Eamon de Valera, Esq., T.D.

"84 Serpentine Avenue,

"Sandymount, Dublin."

I think it is the duty of every member in this Assembly, no matter what bench he sits on, to put an end to this state of affairs. We have repeatedly brought up here authenticated information, information made by way of affidavit, that assaults such as these I have described here have taken place in Clare. When we brought them here to the attention of the Minister for Justice, we got the very same type of reply as is contained in this letter, which a responsible person should not be guilty of sending out. No person, I hold, in any responsible position, who had any regard whatever for the responsibilities of his office, would send out a letter like that to the charge which was made. All we asked for was that an inquiry should be made into the charges to find out if they were true or false. The only answer we ever get when these irregularities and brutalities are brought to the attention of the Minister, is that those who have been assaulted have the remedy of the courts. We know perfectly well, and the Minister for Justice knows perfectly well—that is why he is relying on it—that very often those who have been assaulted have not the means to bring these actions against the State and to continue them, with the various appeals which are inevitable, up to the High Court. I hold that it is the duty of the Minister for Justice quite independently to hold an inquiry to find out whether his force is a disciplined one or not. Everybody here will admit, I think, that there could be no greater boon to a community than a good, disciplined police force who have the interests of the citizens at heart, and who would protect the rights of the citizens, and at the same time that no greater scourge could be inflicted on any community than a body containing within it a number of indisciplined ruffians who have liberty evidently to do and carry on as they like. From the information I have got, anyhow, and I say all we ask for is that a public inquiry be held to investigate it, certain members of the Detective Division are trying to create a reign of terror down in Clare. The answers which the Minister for Justice makes here when we bring these matters to his notice are obviously regarded by these members as an encouragement and though I personally would hate to be forced to that conclusion, I am practically forced to it in the circumstances, I believe it is the deliberate policy of the Executive Council to give a free hand to these individuals. Either that is their policy or else they are afraid to take the necessary action to discipline them. To suggest that this man got the injuries he showed to me when he was milking his cows by a kick from a cow is absolutely absurd. He is prepared to give evidence himself, and bring forward witnesses to prove that these injuries were inflicted by the Detective Division. All we ask for is that it should be made possible for him and other citizens who have been equally maltreated to come forward and give sworn public evidence of the maltreatment they have received.

We have our own responsibility in this matter. The Minister for Justice, when he replied to us on a former occasion, said to us that we had not denounced a certain outrage which had taken place in Clare. My attitude with respect to that, and, I believe, the attitude of every member of our party is unmistakable. If there was a letter deliberately sent with a view to entrapping these officers and blowing them up, it was a horrible outrage, and I believe every decent member of the community will reprobate it. That is our attitude. We would have no hesitation whatever in reprobating such an outrage for the simple reason that we know no good cause whatever can be served and advanced by such methods. We leave the Ballyseedys, the Countess Bridges and the Bahaghs to our opponents. We do not believe, not one of us, no matter in what Republican Party we may be, in such methods. Therefore, when the Minister comes along and tries to pretend and take cover under the fact that apparently there has been no denunciation of this crime from us, we want to know whether there is justification for believing that that was a deliberate plot or not in the sending of this letter, or whether, in fact, the letter was sent by somebody who wanted to give secret information to the Guards, or whether it was not the Guards' tom-fooling with the infernal instrument which caused the explosion. If it could be shown that there was a deliberate plot like that, to my mind it ranks almost in the Ballyseedy class and we have no hesitation in regarding it as such. But, even if it were so, is that any excuse for the Minister for Justice on his side condoning such brutality as, we are certain, has taken place in Clare? We feel perfectly certain that if the Minister for Justice will set up this public inquiry these cases of assaults will be proved.

This was not the first series of assaults on Mr. Ryan. Back in March, there was an affidavit of his, I think, presented to the Council of the town of Kilrush, and a resolution was forwarded to the Clare Deputies by the Council drawing their attention to it, and also to the Minister for Justice. I think the particular case itself was brought up here by Deputy Hogan. The attention of the Minister for Justice has been called to these assaults by the resolution of another responsible body, by the Clare County Council. What justification has the Minister for Justice for denying a sworn inquiry of the kind asked for? Let him answer this question: Is it the policy of the Executive Council to allow detectives a free hand; to let it be known to them and the people in the area that they have liberty to do just as they please; that we are going to have the Black-and-Tan terror brought back here at this hour of the day? If it is not, and if responsible people are prepared to give testimony on this matter, why will he not hold this public inquiry by which we can know who is right and who is wrong; whether it is the cow kicked Mr. Ryan or whether it is ruffians we have heard about—the gun bullies? Let the Minister for Justice, if he thinks he is right, give an opportunity to the people affected to bring this matter definitely to the test and have a public inquiry. There is no other way out as far as I can see; and I would say to everyone, to every member of the House, that every one of us will share in the responsibility of the Minister for Justice if we allow this sort of thing to go on. I do not think any further purpose will be served by my commenting on this further. It is savagery pure and simple. Just think of a man living alone with his mother, out in the country, isolated practically, and every day and night, in constant danger. There were three men present on this occasion; there was the one I saw at the door who accosted me, and two on the road, evidently on guard. This man cannot talk to visitors; he cannot talk to his mother; he cannot move from one room to another without some detective, if he wishes, accompanying him. Fancy that man living alone in his house at the risk at any moment of being pulled out and beaten, and perhaps murdered, by ruffians, because I have no hesitation in calling them ruffians if they are guilty of this brutality.

May I ask am I to get any time to reply, or is Deputy de Valera to take the whole half-hour?

The practice when the House is about to adjourn earlier than the ordinary time is to give the Deputy who has given notice half an hour, and then the Minister replies.

I am sure there are other members in the House, particularly Clare Deputies, who are equally interested in this, and I do not wish to curtail any time they want. What I do want to have an assurance about, and I fear I will not have it unless the House compels it, is that this thing is going to stop, that we are going to have ordinary, civilised conditions in West Clare, and that the people who are supposed to be keeping the peace will not be the greatest offenders against it.

The Minister stated that he has made inquiries. I want to know from him what do these inquiries comprise? I think the House is entitled to know the nature of these inquiries. Did they include ascertaining from the doctors mentioned by Deputy de Valera their opinions as to the way in which the injuries could have been caused. If this was anything except a whitewashing business, I could not imagine it being done impartially without getting a statement from the doctors as to how these injuries were caused. They might have been able to throw some light on this cock-and-bull story. This is certainly a cow-and-bull story, or, as somebody suggested, a cow-and-bully story. I came across a case the other day where it was suggested in a certain assault case that injuries all over the body were caused by the person himself, or that he procured somebody to cause them. The person who put up that case paid dearly for it, because the court recognised that he was a person not to be believed, any more than the person who put up the story in the Minister's letter. No reasonable man would believe it. The whole question, so far as I can see in this case, is as to how the injuries were inflicted. It is very easy to ascertain that. The first step one would imagine that would have been taken, if it was anything except what we believe it to be, an attempt to cover up the tracks of these gun bullies, would be to ascertain if the injuries could have been caused in the way those gun bullies allege. The Minister knows that there has been certain feeling with regard to the assaults that have been committed on unfortunate, defenceless people in Clare. We can easily realise the atmosphere that exists there, that there is feeling between certain members of the Civic Guards with regard to certain members of the community, and that that feeling is not a very friendly one. It is very easy to realise what happens when people who have feeling towards each other find themselves in the same house. Would anybody here consider himself very happy or very safe if he were put in the same house with people who he believed were his greatest enemies? It does not require very much imagination to see that the first thing that must happen will be that there will be ill-treatment from them. If the Minister wants to argue on that line he will see that the suggestion is an improbable story. It must be obvious to the Minister by now that he is not helping discipline or he is not trying to establish or maintain a force that would gain the respect of anybody by adopting the attitude that he has adopted in this House. If these people can stand up and show a clean record, when they are involved in these allegations, why not let the light of day in on them? Is he afraid to take it any further than what are, I suppose, regarded as confidential documents passing between him and his inferiors down in Clare? If anybody asked for the report that came up from these officers in Clare, would we see every paragraph in that report? Would the public see it? No, it would be regarded as a private document. It is all right for the Minister to get up here and say he has made inquiries amongst people who are in the same force and who have the same prejudices as the gun bullies who are guilty of these assaults on unfortunate citizens. The Minister knows, and every member of this House knows, if the Minister was not afraid of a public inquiry it would be the first thing he would have. He knows perfectly well what a public inquiry would result in. It is because he is afraid of that that he is trying to hide and safeguard these Civic Guards and to throw a cloak over their crimes. It is solely because of that that he is refusing this inquiry.

May I ask the Minister if he will state if he is prepared to send an independent medical witness to examine this man's injuries and to find out how they could correspond with the cock-and-bull story he has told us, or that he intends to tell us, that a cow kicked the man. I would advise him to ask any farmer if a cow can kick with two legs because it certainly could not inflict these injuries with one leg.

I would ask the Minister to tell the House under what statute and by what authority the detectives accosted Deputy de Valera when he was going to visit a constituent, and by what authority one of them forced himself into the room and was present at the interview between Mr. Ryan and Deputy de Valera. I think that is significant. When the leader of the Opposition went to visit a constituent to investigate the complaint, a member of the detective force deliberately forced himself into the House and insisted on being present at the interview which took place between a constituent and a member of the Dáil. I think that is unjustifiable and should not be tolerated.

I think the whole tone of the debate was very well shown by the second last speaker, Deputy Dr. O'Dowd, who immediately started off with the statement that this is a cock-and-bull story. Therefore, everything which rests upon the unsubstantiated word of Mr. Ryan of Cranny is Gospel truth to Fianna Fáil and everything which rests upon the statement of the Civic Guard is cock-and-bull, not to be believed, to be disregarded absolutely. That is the attitude of Fianna Fáil. Let us ask first what are the allegations. Mr. Ryan tells a long story to Deputy de Valera; mark you, it rests on Mr. Ryan's word and Mr. Ryan's word alone. Deputy de Valera says he saw one black eye and he saw dressings on his leg. Let us consider the story which is told to Deputy de Valera. This man says that he was assaulted and that when he was inside the car, sitting in the car, or standing in the car, he was hit on the shin by the starting handle of the car. Will Deputies just consider that. If he was standing, he could not be hit by the starting handle of a car.

Will you try it?

I have got sufficient common sense to know. [Interruptions.]

It is too soon to interrupt the Minister yet. Let him have a few minutes more.

If he were sitting down he could be easily struck but how he is going to be struck on the shin by a twisted article like a starting handle certainly beats me. I say that story has got about it almost all the elements of impossibility. Against that, I have the clear and definite statement of highly respected members of the Civic Guard that no such assault took place.

Motor car stealers. Joy riders.

I am glad I can listen to anything the Deputies say but the Deputies cannot listen to me. Ce n'est que la verité qui blesse. This story about the cow and the grass is said to be a cock-and-bull story. Now, what is the story about the cow and the grass? It is a very natural story [Interruptions].

Deputies opposite do not want it. What is the story about the cow and the grass? It is this: We have been told that Mr. Ryan owns two cows. He went out to milk his cows. He put opposite the head of each cow a certain amount of cut grass. Is there anything extraordinary about that? He milked the first cow, and having milked it he moved his stool over and proceeded to milk the second cow. Cow No. 1, that had already been milked, having eaten up its own grass, went over towards cow No. 2, and, as the Guard puts it, made a "puck" at cow No. 2, which moved away upsetting Mr. Ryan, upsetting his milk can and breaking his stool. Anybody who has been in a country place, anybody who has seen cows milked—I do not know whether Deputy de Valera has ever seen it— will see that this is in itself a most probable story; that it is a most likely thing to happen. This gentleman is therefore in a bad temper. He does not look very much after his cows; and one cow, having eaten her own supply of cut grass, proceeds to "puck" the other—a most likely thing to happen, and one which appears to me, at any rate, to have all the elements of truth about it. Then what happened? Mr. Ryan gets a great opportunity—the opportunity of his life. He has been knocked down by a cow in the presence of the Guards. That is the great opportunity. This man is full of hatred of the Guards; his breast is seething with hatred of the Guards; and he is anxious to bring as many charges against them as he can. He objects to surveillance, of course, and he has got a number of willing mouthpieces here. He has got Deputy de Valera——

What does the Minister mean exactly by "willing mouthpieces"? Does he suggest that I went down to Clare to get a story to bring up here?

I suggest that any story that Mr. Ryan tells Deputy de Valera, Deputy de Valera is willing to repeat here as truth.

I submit I did not do anything of the kind. I gave those statements in my letter to the President, and I gave them to the House as having come from Mr. Ryan himself. What I hold is that when allegations of that kind are made, and when we have got the names of doctors and others who have been attending this man, there is a case for an inquiry, and that it is the duty of the Minister, if the charges are untrue and the force can be cleared, to clear it.

That has nothing to do with my statement. This gentleman gave Deputy de Valera, as his mouthpiece, the charges which the Deputy has made against the Guards in this House. Now, who is this Mr. Ryan? Mr. Ryan is a gentleman who was at one time a wireless operator. He came home during the Great War, settled down in his home in Clare, and joined the Volunteers. During what is known as the Black and Tan war he did not do what he was told to do. In 1920 he was court-martialled by the then Volunteers for disobeying orders—for failing to turn out when he was called upon to do so.

Might I ask the Minister what is his authority for making these statements? He is apparently quoting from papers, and I would like him to tell the House what they are.

I am giving information which I have received from the Guards.

Oh, from the Guards.

The Deputy or any other Deputy can verify this if he likes. He was ordered by the Volunteers in consequence to leave Clare, and he was not allowed back into Clare until after the Truce was made. Now, if there is anything wrong in that statement, any Deputy can check it.

Is the Minister for Justice pleading this as justification for the treatment of this citizen?

Surely when Deputy de Valera and others have occupied half an hour in making a certain case, some latitude should be allowed to the Minister to come to the point of the case. The object, presumably, is to hear what the Minister for Justice has to say, and it would seem to be only fair that he should be allowed to say it.

I do not put this forward as a justification for the use of violence towards Mr. Ryan.

Then why recite it?

Really, members of the Fianna Fáil Party are a little too sensitive. I do not put that forward as a justification for violence towards Mr. Ryan. I say there is no evidence forming, in my judgment, even a prima facie case, that violence was used against him. It does not matter what type of man he is the Guards are not justified in using violence. That is perfectly plain and simple. I have never said anything to the contrary.

You implied it.

I have never said anything to the contrary, in spite of what this irrepressible chatterbox says. I think when you come to consider and test the credibility of a man like Deputy Ryan——

I think the Minister is getting mixed.

— this Mr. T.J. Ryan, you must consider what type of man he is. This gentleman, having been out of Clare for some time, came back and was for a short time interned during the Civil War. He was let out on the recommendation of the local Superintendent, and after that Mr. Ryan joined in with the most extreme element in Clare. He is now one of the most important, if not the most important, leader of that extreme element in Clare. That is the type of man he is. Against that man you have got Guards of the highest probity and the highest standing; men who have got the complete confidence of their superiors; picked and chosen men; well and highly disciplined men. You have got Mr. Ryan on one side and those men on the other side. I am asked why there should not be an inquiry. I say that if there was an inquiry in a case where I am satisfied there is not a prima facie case made out, it would be doing a wrong to these Guards. On the other hand, if there is any foundation in fact for the story which Mr. Ryan told Deputy de Valera, then Mr. Ryan can have as public an inquiry as he likes. He has got the ordinary courts of justice open to him. Deputy de Valera suggests that Mr. Ryan is a pauper, and that he could not go into court as he has no means. That is not so. Mr. Ryan is not by any means a pauper. He has got a substantial farm, and the courts are open to him if he wishes to go into them.

And beggar himself.

He can go into the courts and have the most public form of inquiry that he could wish for before the courts which are established for that purpose. He is not satisfied with that. For propaganda purposes, as it can only be for propaganda purposes, he wishes to have these charges brought again and again in the Dáil, so that the Guards may be, if possible, discouraged in their work. The main work of the Guards in Clare is to see that there is no recurrence of the terrible outrage which took place there recently. It is the duty of the Guards to see that crime is not committed, and to watch those persons who are the main instigators of the state of unrest that exists.

The Minister has not replied to the questions I asked. I asked him if any statement had been taken from the doctors and the curate who attended this man who was beaten. In the ordinary course of their inquiries one would assume that the Guards would have gone to the doctors who attended this man in order to support their improbable story.

I do not know that any doctor attended this man. I know that a doctor attended his mother. I do not know that any priest visited this particular man. He may have told Deputy de Valera that they did, but I do not know that any priest did so. I do know that the Guards requested Mrs. Ryan, his mother, to give them a statement, and that she refused to give any statement.

In the letter that Deputy de Valera sent to the President and to the Minister, did he not mention the names of two doctors?

He mentioned a doctor, but he mentioned him on the authority of Mr. Ryan only.

No matter on whose authority.

The Dáil was adjourned at 6.30 p.m. until Wednesday, the 23rd October, 1929—pursuant to the Resolution of the House of Thursday, 11th July.

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