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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 6 Jun 1930

Vol. 35 No. 6

Orders of the Day. - Vote 52—Agriculture.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £316,956 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1931, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig an Aire Talmhaíochta agus seirbhísí áirithe atá fé riara na hOifige sin, maraon le hIldeontaisí i gCabhair.

That a sum not exceeding £316,956 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1931, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Agriculture, and of certain services administered by that Office, including sundry Grants-in-Aid.

When laying before the Dáil the Estimates of the Department of Agriculture for the year 1929-30, I explained in considerable detail the subjects covered by various groups of sub-heads. The gross Vote for the Department of Agriculture is £624,691, and the net figure as shown in the Estimate— £475,456—is obtained by deducting from the gross figure the amount of Appropriations-in-Aid, £149,235. Of this sum, £54,650 are not Appropriations-in-Aid in the real sense of the word, and this amount should be added to the figure which I have given, making the total net expenditure on the services covered by the Vote of the Department, £530,106. Sub-heads A, B, C and D form one group representing the salaries and expenses of the headquarters staff, which is not only administrative, but preventive. The increased provision under sub-head A is mainly required for (1) annual increments for the existing staff; (2) employment of additional staff by reason of the extension of the Livestock Breeding Act to boars; (3) the employment of a superintending veterinary inspector and clerical staff for the working of the Fresh Meat Act.

Sub-heads E 1, E 2, E 3, E 4, F 1, F 2, F 3, F 4, F 5, F 6, F 7, K 2, L, M 1, M 2 and M 3 form one division under the heading of Educational Services, the total cost of which will be £131,000 as against £125,000 last year. Sub-heads H 1 and H 2, amounting to £83,600, consist of grants given to county committees of agriculture to augment the funds available from rates for the purposes of the educational, live-stock and other schemes administered locally by these bodies. The sum contributed from rates will be about £48,600, which, together with the total of £83,600, will represent the gross amount available for the operation of these local schemes. That is to say, about £130,000 will be spent by the local authorities. Sub-heads G 1, G 2, G 3, I, K 1 and M 4, amounting in all to a little over £113,000 gross, or £72,000 net, as compared with £120,000 gross and £78,000 nett last year, represent central expenditure on work which, in many respects, is analogous to that done through the county committees of agriculture except that the administration of the services is carried out directly by the Department. I may here mention that we are no longer continuing loans to co-operative creamery societies, but it will be observed from the table of Appropriations-in-Aid that the Department expect to receive £10,500 in the current year in part repayment of advances issued in previous years.

As regards sub-head M 5, the sum provided—£90,000—is slightly less than that which was available last year, but it is difficult to make a precise estimate under this sub-head, as so much depends upon opportunities arising during the year for the acquisition of creameries still under proprietory control. The total number of creameries purchased to date is 170, of which 75 have been closed as redundant, 41 have been transferred as operative premises to cooperative societies, and 54, which have had of necessity to be temporarily retained, are being worked in seven groups. This exhausts the groups of sub-heads which I have classed as educational.

The following variations in the provisions made for the current year as compared with last year call for some remark. Sub-head E 2— Veterinary Research. The increase of £1,350 is due to arrangements for strengthening the technical staff at the Research Institute, a step which has been rendered necessary by the great increase of work in connection with animal diseases investigations. Sub-head E 3—World's Poultry Congress, London. It is necessary in the interests of the country's poultry industry that the Irish Free State should be adequately represented at this important international Poultry Congress, especially in view of our extending export trade in eggs and poultry with Great Britain. £1,900 represents the estimated gross cost of staging at the Congress Exhibition (1) a national exhibit illustrating the development of the Irish Free State poultry industry; (2) a trade exhibit of Irish Free State eggs and dead poultry; (3) an exhibit of Irish Free State live poultry, and cost of sending an official delegation. Over £600 has been contributed by Irish Free State egg exporters towards the cost of the trade exhibit, and this sum, together with receipts in respect of the sale of exhibits, is estimated to reduce the net cost to £1,200. Over fifty countries are taking part in the Congress.

Sub-heads F 5 and F 6 I will take together. With regard to university education, we are no longer concerned with capital expenditure in connection with the faculty of agriculture at University College, Dublin, as we completed our payments in that regard last year. The full amount provided, £7,250, was spent. The work of extension of the Albert Agricultural College to contain the advanced laboratories cost £3,200. £1,500 was spent on the plant breeding and animal nutrition departments, £730 on the plant pathology and zoology laboratories; £800 on heating and so on. The annual expenditure on the faculty came to £20,000 in 1929-30, but as certain appointments to the staff have yet to be made it is expected that an extra £2,500 will be required this year and provision has accordingly been made in the Estimates for £22,500. The maximum annual grant provided for by the University Education Act, 1926, is £24,984. As mentioned last year, it was necessary to increase the amount of the capital grant for the dairy science faculty at University College, Cork, from £67,000 to £85,000 in order to meet the increased cost of the dairy institute and creamery being erected in the College grounds. The creamery building has been completed, the necessary machinery installed and the manufacture of butter is now proceeding. It will, however, be some time before the dairy institute is finished. By the end of last financial year, we had paid University College, Cork, close on £55,000 from the capital grant. The acquisition of land and purchase of livestock and farm equipment accounted for nearly £10,000, the balance being spent on building operations. The capital provision in this year's Estimate is £29,500. The annual expenditure for 1929-30 came to £7,810. Our estimate for that year was £10,000, but the fact that the creamery was not completed as early as we expected and that in consequence certain appointments to the staff were not made accounted for the saving. This year, we have put down £11,000 as the amount of the annual grant and we expect the full amount will be required.

Sub-head F 7 is new. It is intended to provide a contribution towards the expenses of selected itinerant instructors in agriculture, for whom it is proposed in the coming summer to arrange a tour abroad which will provide them with an opportunity of studying at firsthand the farming methods followed in other countries. Taking subheads H 1 and H 2 together, there is an increase of about £4,000. The greater part of this is due to the necessity of providing the county committees of agriculture with funds to enable them to offer additional bull and boar premiums, the need for which is due to the operations of the Livestock Breeding Act. Sub-heads N 1, N 2, N 3, N 4, O 1, O 2, O 3, O 4, O 5, and O 6 may be grouped together under the general heading of "Control." The nature of the work is, I think, sufficiently dealt with by the descriptive titles in Part 3 of the Estimates. The cost of these control services is £53,761 gross, or about £33,000 net. The Livestock Breeding Act, the Agricultural Produce (Eggs) Act, and the Dairy Produce Act—that is, legislation which has been passed since the Free State came into existence for the better control of three important parts of our agricultural production—cost together £29,273 gross, or £9,693 net. The variations in this group between last year's and this year's estimates represent, where increases occur, normal developments of the Department's activities.

The following items may be referred to:—N 2, Bovine Tuberculosis Order. The increase of £700 is due to more animals being slaughtered and to the higher proportion of "not advanced cases" now being reported. In "not advanced cases" the compensation is three-fourths of the valuation as against one-fourth in advanced cases. N 4—Livestock Breeding Act. The increase of £110 is due to more appeals to referees and to provision for equipment, etc., for applying the Act to boars. O 4 —Weeds. and Seeds. There is an increase of £275. Six additional inspectors will be employed as two additional local authorities, Offaly and Cork County Borough, have adopted the Act, and it has become necessary also to make a more intensive general inspection.

The total amount of the Department's net Vote may, therefore, be summarised as follows:—Headquarters staff, £131,000; direct educational services, £131,000; co. committee schemes and supplementary schemes. £155,500; purchase of creameries, £90,000; control services, £33,000; total, £540,500. If Deputies take these items one by one, and consider them, I am sure it will be agreed that the money is well spent.

There is £131,000 spent on the headquarters staff. That, as I have said, includes the cost of practically all the important technical officers through the country with the exception of the county committee of agriculture officers, and they are doing good work. With regard to educational services—and everybody is in favour of education— they are costing £131,000. The county committee schemes are administered by the local authorities, and therefore they must be highly efficient. They are costing £155,500. With regard to the purchase of creameries, nobody has ventured to criticise the principle yet. There may be difficulties of detail, but I think that all parties are enthusiastically in favour of buying and selling creameries. But we cannot buy without paying for them, so we want £90,000 more. Control services will cost £33,000. We are getting better service from this than from any other item. There are such things to be considered as the Live Stock Breeding Act, the Butter Act, the Agricultural Produce (Eggs) Act, and the Dairy Produce Act. They are costing £9,000 net. I do not think that the State is getting better value for any £9,000.

The Department of Agriculture is staffed as follows:—There are, roughly, 236 administrative officers, 272 technical officers, including agricultural overseers, assistant overseers, flax instructors, cow testing instructors and potato demonstrators; about 260 wage earners employed in connection with the various institutes at the ports, etc., making a total of 768. In my opinion, you cannot get the farmers to go to school to learn; you have to go to them, and that is the reason we have so many technical officers. In addition, there are 148 officers employed by committees of agriculture and also certain temporary men employed for short periods each year in connection with the operation of Acts, such as the Live Stock Breeding Act, the Weeds and Seeds Act, etc. Of the 148 county committee officers, the salaries of 29 are provided wholly by the Department and the remainder are paid out of a joint fund composed of about £83,500 provided out of taxation, and about £48,500 out of rates.

Special mention was made last year with regard to the livestock schemes administered either through the county committees of agriculture or directly by the Department. I do not propose to repeat the analysis I then gave. It may be sufficient to mention that we propose to expend out of the Vote nearly £38,500 in the current year as against a little over £35,000 last year, and that we hope to have nearly 1,600 ordinary premium bulls placed to the county committees of agriculture as against 1,545 in 1929. In addition we will have 225 special premium bulls placed directly by the Department in congested districts, as well as about 200 animals of a similar standard located under special arrangements by which the animal is sold at a reduced price payable in three or four annual instalments. We have on the one side more than doubled the high class breeding animals of the country and we have cut out more than 50 per cent of the scrub animals. That is bound inevitably to bring about a very considerable improvement in the quality of our livestock and, in fact, it has done so.

As regards boars, including together animals for which premiums are provided directly out of the Department's funds, out of the county committees' funds and out of the fund to which the bacon curers contribute, we hope to have about 1,300 premium animals this year as compared with 1,100 last year. Owing to our being unable to secure the full supply of rams for congested districts last year we are asking for an increased provision. £1,950 instead of the usual £1,350. We were short of rams last year. We had the money, but we could not get them as they were not available. We want to make up for it this year. It is a particularly valuable scheme. We are continuing the provision made under sub-head G 2 (D) and under sub-head G 3 (D) for the purchase of high class animals for use as stock bulls. Under the former sub-head £2,500 is intended to be spent on the purchase of dairy bulls and these animals are sold at reduced prices or are leased to members of the cow-testing associations. Under the latter sub-head £2,000 is provided for the purchase of animals of the beef type. Under G 3 (A) you will observe that we are continuing our policy of purchasing high-class stallions for re-sale at reduced prices. It is also to be borne in mind that under sub-head M 4 a considerable part of the sum provided is used to. make advances to persons who desire to purchase registered stallions or premium bulls and who would without assistance of this sort be unable to procure animals of a sufficiently high standard. There are no other points in the various subheads which require comment at the moment—at least none that occur to me.

I beg to move: "That this Estimate be referred back for reconsideration." The Minister told us the net cost of the Department was £475,000 plus £54,000 which was given in appropriations; but it really came from taxation and therefore could not be described as earnings by the Department, so that the true net cost would be £530,000. There is in that amount, it is true, a certain amount of capital expenditure. There are a few large sums such as loans for agricultural purposes and the purchase of creameries. Against that there are sums coming in, repayments of agricultural loans and loans to cooperative creameries, amounting to £42,000. If we deduct what is going for capital expenditure, the ordinary routine work of the Department is costing about £450,000. I believe a considerable amount of this money is spent with the object in view of having our live stock considerably improved. I would like the Minister to keep in mind that where such a large amount is being spent it is a pity there should be other things, attention to which was drawn here during the year, allowed to remain unattended to, such as certain diseases that are affecting live stock. No effective remedy has so far been applied or even suggested. Probably more than half of what is being spent on the Department goes towards the improvement of cattle.

Mr. Hogan

Say live stock generally.

Well, of the whole amount a very big proportion would go towards the improvement of cattle. We must take into account that a lot of this money is being lost. First of all, there is a decline in the total number of cows in the Free State within the last few years. I admit it is a small decline, but still it is a decline. There is a more serious position. The State has contributed money for premiums for bulls, and a large amount in other ways for the improvement of live stock. We find that a considerable number of the best heifers reared in the country are exported to England and other places. It is perhaps due to the economic condition of the farmers that they must find ready money, and the best selling stock they have at present are the heifers, which can always meet with a ready sale. At all times of the year they bring in the best prices of any cattle that the farmer may have. The farmer is therefore tempted to sell the good heifers, and the majority of them are exported. We lose thereby a very valuable number of cattle that would make good breeding stock if the farmers could afford to keep them. If they cannot afford to keep them the Government should endeavour to do something to induce the farmers to keep the cattle for breeding stock.

There are certain diseases that have been rather prevalent. Tuberculosis has not been so prevalent within the last few years as previously. I have not any statistics to prove it, but some people hold that the pure-bred Shorthorn stock are more liable to tuberculosis than what we might call the common cattle. That also applies to pure bred Poll Angus. At any rate, tuberculosis has made big inroads on our live-stock during the last six or seven years since these Acts were passed by the Dáil to improve our live-stock. I do not know that the Government have taken any effective measures to cope with this position, except that the Minister has mentioned that there is at least an inducement to people to report cases of tuberculosis, owing to the fact that a certain compensation can be got.

I read recently in a magazine of the measures adopted in Canada to get rid of tuberculosis. I believe these methods, if adopted here, would be rather expensive, but I think they are going to be very effective in Canada. They began in Canada by offering any owner of a herd who wished to get his cattle tested for tuberculosis a free test. The Government offered to send a veterinary surgeon, who would supply free tuberculin to test the cattle, and the stockowner in return has to undertake to get rid of any cattle that reacted to the test, and were considered incurable. A number of stockowners adopted that system, and availed of the facilities offered by the Government. The next stage was that if a big proportion of stock-owners in a certain area adopted that system it was then made compulsory on the minority, so that there could be a tubercular-free zone established which was altogether free from tuberculosis. These zones can be increased gradually, and in that way they hope in time to eliminate tuberculosis completely from Canada.

Apart from the Government, help was given by other authorities. Certain municipalities, for instance, made bye-laws or regulations under which milk could not be supplied in these municipalities except from those who had adopted the Government's scheme for the testing of their herds. In that way the owners of cows near big cities which adopted this system found it necessary to have tubercular-free cows in order to be allowed to supply milk to the cities. That, again, made it necessary for the owners of these herds to buy their supply of cows and heifers from herds in other parts of the country which were free from tuberculosis. The result was that there was an inducement to stock owners to adopt this system and get rid of tuberculosis from their herds. As I say, veterinary services and tuberculin were given free, and the only cost incurred was where an owner had a considerable number of cattle affected and had to bear a certain loss in getting rid of them.

That system would probably be very expensive if adopted here and I do not know that we can afford to adopt it, but it might be possible at least to take the first step the Canadian Government took and give free veterinary advice and free tuberculin to owners of herds who undertake to get rid of tubercular cattle and to keep their herds free from tuberculosis. In that way we might possibly get some way on the road towards getting rid of tuberculosis. Then if the cities and towns felt that they could make bye-laws or regulations that all milk supplied in these cities and towns should be from tubercular-free cattle they would probably adopt such a scheme. I think, however, that the medical officers or the veterinary officers who would be advising the councils in these towns and cities would hardly advise them to take this step at present, because they would probably find that there would be a shortage of milk. But if they felt that the Government were going to help them to stamp out tuberculosis they might be able to take the step after a few years, and it might have the very good effect which it has had in Canada of compelling milk suppliers to see that their cattle were free from tuberculosis, and the milk suppliers, in turn, would only buy cattle from other people down the country who have herds free from tuberculosis.

There is another big difficulty here as compared with Canada, however, and that is, that the owners of herds in Canada keep a much larger number of cattle than on the average is kept by owners in this country, so that one stock owner in Canada who keeps his stock free from tuberculosis is a very important factor, whereas here it would probably have to be worked on a different system by taking areas. However, I only put it forward as a suggestion to the Minister, if he has not given this question very full consideration—and I am sure he has—that he should at least look into it and see if something on similar lines could not be done here.

Severe losses have also been caused to farmers and stock owners in this country for three or four years past owing to the prevalence of abortion. From what I can learn from questions to the Minister and from other sources the Department has done very little to stamp out this disease. I do not know that they have really found out all that is necessary to be found out about how this disease is spread and so on, and how it can be cured. Some people claim that it can be cured by vaccination, but there are owners whose stock have been afflicted with this disease who are equally as emphatic that vaccination is not any use. I do not know if the Department is in a position to come to a definite decision as to whether this disease can be prevented by vaccination or not. The ordinary farmer, who has not got very much scientific knowledge on the subject, holds that the disease has been spread owing to the fact that the number of bulls available has been largely reduced. Some years ago when farmers were permitted to keep a scrub bull this disease was very little known because very seldom did the farmer who had more than nine or ten cows have to send his cows to a neighbour's farm. Every farmer who had nine or ten cows or more kept a bull of his own and, for that reason, there was no intercourse between the cows of one neighbour and another and the disease if it did occur in isolated places was not spread.

According to the latest scientific knowledge, the disease is spread from cow to cow, and it was through having the cows of two neighbours mixing that the disease was spread. This disease may be the cause of some of the things that I have already mentioned. It may be the cause, in the first place, of the number of milch cows in the country going down in the last few years, because there has been certainly a small percentage of the cows of the country which the farmers had to fatten off as they found it impossible to get those cows to come in calf again. It may be responsible for the diminution in the number of milch cows. Young heifers are also addicted to this disease. It is also responsible, perhaps, for the high price of young calves, because if young calves had been dear this year only and not dear last year and the year before, at this particular time of the year, it might be due to the low price of milk, but for the last three or four years the price of young calves at certain times has gone up as high as £4 or £5. That is probably due to some scarcity, and the scarcity may be due to this contagious abortion.

Another disease which our cattle are suffering from, and which has caused a considerable amount of loss and annoyance to owners of dairy cattle, is the disease of mamitis. That is a disease about which the Department has done little to enlighten the farmers of the country. Practically every drug in the pharmacy is used to cure this disease, nearly all of them with equally bad results. It seems to be very much on the increase. Some of the farmers in my county suffered through it in the last two years much more than previously. They have been trying all sorts of patent remedies, and they do not yet seem to have got what would be regarded as a certain cure. It is a disease that is followed sometimes by the loss of part of the udder, and sometimes by the loss of one or two of the teats, so that the cow is not as valuable as before it got the disease, and of course is not as good a milker as before.

Mr. Hogan

Are there not three or four sorts of mamitis?

I suppose there are. One of the disadvantages of this disease is that when a farmer has gone to a considerable amount of trouble and expense to grade up his herd to the point where they will become registered cows they will not be registered because of this disease. I have known of a few cases recently where farmers had reached the point where their cows would be registered. They got this disease and the inspector refused to register them because they were not perfect in form and so on, although they would have perhaps yielded the requisite number of gallons of milk to have them registered. I had a short argument with the Minister one day at Question time on this matter and he said the reason why they could not register them was that the trouble might be due to tuberculosis. If it was certain that it was due to mamitis the same objection would not be raised, but they could not be certain that it was due to mamitis. The Minister said that the veterinary surgeon could not possibly say that it was not due to tuberculosis and, therefore, he could not register the cow. That is a great hardship on farmers who have gone to the trouble to grade up their cows, which is a process that takes years. They find when they have just reached the point where their cows might be registered their whole labour is gone for nothing on account of this disease of mamitis.

There is another thing also which is not perhaps any more prevalent in the last few years than it has been at other times. That is the damage that is done to cattle by the warble fly. It does not perhaps do very much harm to the live animal but it does great damage to the hides. I have been informed by a person in the hide trade that buyers in England have complained to him that 75 per cent. of the hides sent across to them are damaged by the warble fly. He says that when the warble fly comes out through the hide it leaves a certain wound which like every other wound forms a cicatrix or scar and the hide is thereby damaged permanently and there is a certain cut in the price of the hide when it is being sold to the buyer on the other side. I believe that in other countries remedies have been adopted to get rid of the warble fly completely and that the remedies are not by any means complex. I believe it is analogous to the sheep dipping regulations and that because of these regulations in other countries the warble fly is practically eliminated.

I move to report progress.

The Dáil went out of Committee.
Progress reported. The Committee to sit again on Wednesday, 11th June.
The Dáil adjourned at 2 p.m. until 3 o'clock on Wednesday, 11th June, 1930.
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