Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 11 Dec 1930

Vol. 36 No. 10

Supplementary Estimates. - Education (Provision of Meals) (Amendment) Bill, 1930—Second Stage.

Mr. Shaw

I beg to move the Second Reading of this Bill. I would like to point out that the advantages to be derived from the provision of a hot meal for children attending schools who, through poverty, are unable to obtain sufficient food, and who often have to come to school with a scanty breakfast, do not require to be stressed. Where such meals are obtainable they have proved to be of very great benefit to the general health and physical condition of the children. For the past sixteen years urban district councils have possessed the power to co-operate with voluntary agencies in providing the requisite accommodation and equipment for providing meals for school children. They could, also, with the consent of the Local Government Department, incur expenditure from the rates for the supply of food for such meals. Of recent years the benefits obtainable from school meals have been more keenly appreciated, with the result that the number of urban authorities carrying on such schemes has increased from twelve in 1923 to 38 at the present time.

It is obviously unfair to withhold from towns under the control of town commissioners the statutory powers conferred on urban districts. In fact, the town of Mullingar is larger than the majority of the urban districts, while there are only two such towns which do not exceed in population the smallest urban district, which is, I believe, Granard. There are twentythree towns under town commissioners containing a total population of 52,443. There is, therefore, an indisputable claim to amending legislation in this respect. There would be no good reason for denying to the children in those areas the benefits conferred on urban areas by the Education (Provision of Meals) Acts, 1914 to 1917. As regards the question of necessity, I can say that there is an urgent necessity.

In Mullingar the nuns of the Presentation Convent and the Christian Brothers are co-operating with the St. Vincent de Paul Society, and are doing their best to supply meals to children, but there is a heavy demand on their limited funds. I have no doubt that the town commissioners are willing to raise the necessary funds and, therefore, I ask that the necessary statutory powers should be granted to such bodies to enable them to provide meals for the children of the poor, whose meals at any time are scant and uncertain. I appeal, therefore, for a speedy passage for this Bill.

Mr. Connolly

I desire to support the Second Reading of this Bill. From my experience in Longford of the work of providing meals for school children for the last few years, I can say that it has proved very satisfactory and is greatly appreciated by the children. I know that the ladies who give their services free in connection with the scheme are extremely glad to be connected with it. I am satisfied that if powers were given to the town commissioners there would be much happiness in the district. I would like to suggest that in towns where there are neither town commissioners nor urban district councils, the boards of health should have authority to delegate powers to town committees to provide meals for school children and thus make the scheme general. The cost of such schemes does not run into a large sum, not more than £100. I know that children in fairly good circumstances are ready to avail themselves of the opportunity of securing a hot meal during the day. They like to be associated with the other children and often avail themselves of the opportunity. The meals themselves are excellent and the quality of the food which is contracted for under the supervision of local ladies is quite satisfactory. As I have said, I trust that the Minister will direct the attention of the boards of health to this matter so that they may delegate powers to towns in which there are neither commissioners nor urban district councils and to provide money from the area for meals for school children. I trust that this Bill will pass before the Dáil adjourns.

Mr. Kennedy

While in agreement with the idea underlying the Bill, it strikes me as rather peculiar that while towns like Trim, Granard, and similar towns have powers to strike a rate for the provision of meals for school children towns like Mullingar have not. It is evident from that fact that towns like Mullingar should seek urban powers to do this particular thing as well as other things which are very necessary. I understand, that the people of Granard, which is a comparatively small town, asked the Ministry to relieve them of their urban powers but that was not done. I just say that because, on a matter like this, the necessity for urban powers in comparatively large provincial towns with a population of over 5,000 is clearly indicated. It would be a good idea to have local authorities administer school meals in the rural areas but there would want to be better machinery. As the boards of health are constituted at present, I do not see how they could very well manage to do this themselves without having separate committees set up to deal with it.

Mr. T.J. O'Connell

I would like to say that we support the proposal inasmuch as it extends the powers for the provision of meals. What we would like to see is the extension of the same powers to every local authority, whether rural or urban. Anyone who understands the conditions in rural towns will admit that meals are as necessary to school children in the poor rural districts as they are in the towns. As my colleague, Deputy Corish, reminds me, they are, in fact, more needed, because in addition to having scanty meals at home, the children in rural parts have to travel long distances to school. Though the parents of some children may be a little better to do than those of others, all children appreciate hot meals in the middle of the day. Inasmuch, as the Bill extends the powers to make provision for school meals, I am in favour of the Bill and I desire to congratulate Deputy Shaw on its introduction.

Mr. Fahy

We have for some years advocated the provision of meals for school children. We are sorry to find that there is any need for them in Mullingar, despite the great prosperity spoken of in that town some time ago. I hope these children are not left without meals by their parents because the money has been sent to their elder sisters and brothers in America, as was suggested in a recent election campaign. I wonder would the Minister for Education say what steps he proposes to take to deal with this matter. Will there be a special closing hour or will special facilities be afforded for the provision of these meals? Will they be partaken of during recreation time?

Mr. T.J. O'Connell

The same machinery as in urban towns.

Mr. Fahy

Perhaps Deputy Shaw or the Minister for Local Government would tell us how the law stands in regard to boards of health. Have they power to delegate their authority to somebody else?

Dr. O'Higgins

I would like to correct an impression that might have arisen as a result of Deputy Fahy's remarks that the provision of school meals necessarily indicates that the children partaking of them are in a state of poverty. The real argument for school meals is not so much the question of the poverty of the school children as the necessity for school children to get some warm meal during the day. If the impression were broadcast that those partaking of school meals are necessarily stricken with poverty, then the whole idea of launching a scheme of school meals would be defeated by that impression.

Mr. MacEntee

I think it is necessary that we should correct the misapprehension under which Deputy Dr. O'Higgins is labouring. One of the pleas which Deputy Shaw made in introducing this Bill was the poverty of the school children. I quite agree with Deputy Dr. O'Higgins that this question of poverty should not be stressed at all and that it is essential that if children are to derive the utmost benefit from the educational facilities afforded them, they should be provided with these school meals irrespective of class. In that attitude we approach the Bill and hope that it will be adopted by the House.

Question—"That the Bill be read a Second Time"—put and agreed to.

Mr. Shaw

I would like to get all the Stages of this Bill through now if possible.

Mr. O'Kelly

I think it is fairly well agreed that Deputy Shaw's political reputation needs some bolstering up in Mullingar area, and as we feel in a generous-hearted mood, especially to a defeated opponent, we have no objection to the Bill getting through all its stages