Vol. 39 No. 10
I ask leave to introduce a Bill entitled an Act to make provision for the application of moneys which may be provided by the Oireachtas for the additional relief of rates on agricultural land. The purpose of this Bill is to fix the distribution of the sum of £750,000 for the relief of rates.
Leave to introduce granted.
When will the second stage be taken?
Friday.
We cannot at all agree to that even though the substance of this measure is known. I do not think it is right that the Second Stages of Bills should be rushed through without giving the House a proper opportunity of studying them. It cannot be expected that a Bill which has not yet seen the light of day can be properly studied between now and Friday. I do not think the second reading of this Bill, although its principle may be known, could be adequately discussed in that time any more than the last Bill.
There is absolutely nothing new in the Bill. It provides that £750,000 shall be distributed amongst the various countries as set out in my Budget statement.
In view of the fact that the method of allocation of the money which it is proposed to raise under this Bill and the basis have been generally agreed upon by Fianna Fáil and Cumann na nGaedheal, is it not advisable that Deputy O'Kelly should withdraw his objection?
It is quite obvious that Deputy Davin thinks he is still on the hustings in Kildare at the bottom of the poll misrepresenting the Fianna Fáil Party.
The Deputy knows how to conduct himself when he is there.
Apparently criticism of the Labour Party is now libellous. I suppose the Government should govern not only by the will of God, but by the will of the people.
What about the date for taking the Second Reading of the Bill?
Most of the money is going to the landlords.
I shall continue when Deputy Davin gets back his self-control. It is quite untrue to say that there was any measure of agreement between the Government and Fianna Fáil. (Interruption).
Is it in order for a Deputy to refer to another Deputy as telling a lie?
I did not hear any expression of that kind.
Deputy Davin used it and Deputy O'Connell repeated it.
That expression did not reach me, but if it was used, it should be withdrawn.
I am sure that the Deputies will not deny that they used it when they referred——
Do the Deputies deny that lies were used in Kildare?
The people of Kildare gave their answer.
I would not like to have to rule whether lies were used in Kildare or not, but it is out of order to apply the word "lie" to a statement made by a member in the House. I did not hear the word. Having left Kildare behind, we might go on and fix the date for taking the second stage of this Bill "to make provision for the application of moneys which may be provided by the Oireachtas for the additional relief of rates on agricultural land."
For Lord Cloncurry.
When Deputy MacEntee said that there was no agreement between the Government and Fianna Fáil, Deputy O'Connell said that was a lie.
I did not.
The Deputy did.
If the Ceann Comhairle asks me to withdraw I will withdraw.
I did not hear Deputy O'Connell's words. Some remarks were made, but I did not hear what they were. If Deputy O'Connell made the statement that what Deputy MacEntee said was a lie, I think he should withdraw it.
I did not use the expression in that sense. If there is anything to complain of in that respect I will withdraw. I was referring to things that happened in Kildare and not to what occurred here.
I understood that a withdrawal should be unqualified.
Yes, absolutely. The Chair did not hear what was said. Deputy O'Connell denies apparently, by giving another meaning to his word, that he used the word "lie" as applied to a statement made by Deputy MacEntee. In the case of interchanges, particularly interchanges following hot on the heels of a by-election, it is difficult to know what was said. I did not hear it, and if Deputy O'Connell said that he used the word in a particular sense all we can do is leave it at that.
If the word "lie" is applied to a statement made by a Deputy it can only be used in one sense, that the Deputy was telling an untruth. I heard what Deputy O'Connell said. He said that a certain statement I had made was a lie.
Did Deputy O'Connell say that?
Not in that sense, but to get over the difficulty I withdraw anything I did say.
What about God Save the King? Sing God Save the King.
You would be a better hand at that than we would.
Take your beating.
Ask them to sing God Save the King.
The only question at issue is whether we are to take the Second Reading on Friday or not. Now, on that question.
The statement has been made by Deputy Davin that there is a measure of agreement between Fianna Fáil and Cumann na nGaedheal—that is incorrect.
Is that another way of saying it is a lie?
Is Deputy O'Connell addressing the Chair or addressing me?
I am not addressing anybody.
You are repeating the expression.
Deputy Davin has made a statement which I again repeat is incorrect, that there is a measure of agreement between the Government and Fianna Fáil as to how the proposed £750,000 for the relief of rates is to be distributed. As a matter of fact, there are important differences between the two Parties in that regard and for that reason I would urge that it is unfair to the House to present a Bill of this importance and to expect us to take the Second Reading within a day. I might say, after it has been circulated because it will not be in our hands until to-morrow morning and we shall not be in a position to draft reasoned amendments, if we wish to do so, between then and Friday.
For the Second Reading?
The Second Reading is to be taken on Friday, the day after we get the Bill. If we are putting down amendments surely members of the Government Party might be reasonably expected to get time to consider the Bill and express an independent judgment upon it. It is quite possible that the President of the Executive Council does not want members of his Party to use any independence of mind or freedom of action with regard to Government proposals.
