Apprenticeship Bill, 1930—From the Seanad (In Committee).

I move: That the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment 1:

Section 8, sub-section (1). After the word "wages" in line 19 the words "(other than wages for overtime)" inserted.

When that amendment is being considered attention has also to be paid to the second part of amendment 2, amendment 5, and to the second and third parts of amendment 6. Those amendments taken together bring about this position: that the Apprenticeship Committee, according to this amendment, must fix rules relating to wages other than for overtime. They may then proceed under a later amendment to fix overtime rates and a later amendment then establishes that where they have fixed overtime rates these rates must be observed. This is segregated into two parts, the rate of wages for normal hours and the rate of wages for overtime. The second is not compulsory on the committee, but where they do make rules, then these rules have to be observed.

Question put, and agreed to.

I move: That the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 2:—

Section 8, sub-section (2). Two new paragraphs added at the end of the sub-section as follows:—

"(e) rules (in this Act referred to as rules regulating apprenticeship premiums) either—

(i) prohibiting the taking of any fee, premium, or other consideration (in this Act referred to as an apprenticeship premium) in respect of the employment of a person by way of apprenticeship in such trade in such district, or

(ii) permitting the taking of an apprenticeship premium in respect of such employment and fixing the amount of such apprenticeship premium.

(f) rules (in this Act referred to as rules regulating the minimum rates of overtime wages) in relation to the minimum rates of wages for overtime to be paid to persons employed by way of apprenticeship in such trade in such district."

The first part of this must be taken in connection with the first part of amendment 6 and the situation then under these two amendments is this: that the Apprenticeship Committee may make rules regarding premiums. They need not make them—they may make them. If and when they do make them, and set a certain limit upon premiums which may be taken, then any premium must be within that limit. If no rules are made the situation with regard to premiums is as it is at present—it is unregulated.

Question put, and agreed to.

I move: That the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendments 3 and 4:

Section 12. The following words inserted after the word "or" in line 48:—"with the consent of, in case the apprentice has attained the age of eighteen years, the apprentice, and, in case the apprentice has not attained such age, the parent (if any) of the apprentice."

Section 12. A new sub-section added at the end of the section as follows:—

"(2) In this section the expression ‘parent' in relation to an apprentice who has not attained the age of eighteen years means the individual having the legal custody of such apprentice and, where owing to the absence of such individual or for any other reason such apprentice is not living with or in the actual custody of such individual, includes the individual with whom such apprentice is living or in whose actual custody such apprentice is."

These amendments must be taken together. They relate to where an apprenticeship contract has been entered into and where for some reason it is necessary to transfer the contract to another apprentice. The point was made that in case the apprentice was not of age the consent of certain people must be secured and these amendments relate to that.

Question put and agreed to.
The following Seanad amendments were also agreed to:
Section 13. A new sub-section added at the end of the section as follows:—
(3) In this and the next succeeding section the word "wages" does not include wages for overtime.
New sections. Before Section 22 three new sections inserted as follows:—
"22.—(1) Where rules regulating apprenticeship premiums made by an apprenticeship committee are for the time being in force the following provision shall have effect, that is to say:—
(a) if such rules prohibit the taking of an apprenticeship premium in respect of the employment of a person by way of apprenticeship in the designated trade for which such committee is established in the district of such committee, then it shall not be lawful for any person (in this section referred to as an employer) carrying on in such district such trade to take or receive in respect of such employment an apprenticeship premium, and
(b) if such rules permit the taking of an apprenticeship premium in respect of such employment, then it shall not be lawful for an employer to take or receive in respect of such employment an apprenticeship premium in excess of the apprenticeship premium fixed by such rules.
(2) If any employer carrying on in the district of an apprenticeship committee the designated trade for which such committee is established takes or receives any apprenticeship premium in contravention of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds, and on such conviction the court may order such employer to pay to the person by whom such apprenticeship premium was paid, in case rules regulating apprenticeship premiums made by such committee prohibit the taking of any apprenticeship premium, a sum equal to the amount of the apprenticeship premium so taken or received and, in case rules regulating apprenticeship premiums made by such committee permit the taking of an apprenticeship premium, a sum equal to the amount by which the apprenticeship premium so taken or received exceeds the apprenticeship premium fixed by such rules.
23.—(1) Where any rules regulating the minimum rates of overtime wages made by an apprenticeship committee are for the time being in force, every employer carrying on in the district of such committee the designated trade for which such committee is established shall pay to every apprentice employed on overtime by him overtime wages at not less than the rate or rates payable under such rules and for the purpose of civil proceedings by any such apprentice to recover overtime wages there shall be deemed to be a valid and effective contract by such employer to pay to such apprentice whenever such apprentice is employed on overtime overtime wages at a rate or rates not less than the rate or rates payable under such rules.
(2) If any employer fails to comply with this section he shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds, and on such conviction the court may order such employer to pay, in addition to such fine, such sum as appears to be due to the person employed on account of overtime wages, the overtime wages being calculated on the basis of the minimum rate or rates payable to such person under the rules regulating the minimum rates of overtime wages applicable to such person, but the power to order payment of overtime wages under this sub-section shall not be in derogation of any right of the person employed to recover such wages by any other proceedings.
(3) In this and the next succeeding section the words ‘overtime wages' mean wages for overtime.
24.—(1) Where any rules regulating the minimum rates of overtime wages made by an apprenticeship committee are for the time being in force, it shall be the duty of every employer who carries on in the district of such committee the designated trade for which such committee is established and employs any apprentice in such trade to keep such records of overtime wages paid and of time worked on overtime as are necessary to show that such rules are being complied with in relation to such apprentice.
(2) If any employer—
(a) fails or neglects to keep such records as are required by this section to be kept; or
(b) wilfully or negligently makes in such records any entry which is false or misleading in any material particular,
he shall be guilty of an offence under this section and be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding six pounds and also, in case of failure or neglect to keep such records, to a fine not exceeding three pounds for every day during which such failure or neglect continues after conviction."

I move: That the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendments 7 and 8:

Section 22, sub-section (1). The word "whereby" deleted in line 3 and the words "for the purpose either of preventing or obstructing cr impeding" substituted therefor; the words "is prevented" and the word "or" deleted in line 5; and the words "obstructed or impeded in" deleted in line 6.

Section 22, sub-section (2). The word "twenty" deleted in line 9 and the word "ten" substituted therefor.

These relate to Section 22. It was pointed out in the Seanad that where a trade dispute had arisen for any reason the repercussion of the section might be bad on that dispute because it might be alleged that people were, not deliberately, but incidentally preventing an employer from carrying out his contract. The aim of the section is clearly not that. It was aimed against any person doing anything for the definite, clear-cut purpose of preventing an employer carrying out a contract entered into and the first amendment puts the section in that form. The second amendment relates to the penalty.

Question put, and agreed to.
Report of Committee agreed to.
Ordered: That a Message be sent to the Seanad accordingly.