Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 15 Mar 1932

Vol. 41 No. 2

Vote on Account—In Committee on Finance.

Mr. MacEntee

I move:—

"Go ndeontar i gcuntas suim nách mó na £7,864,470 chun no le haghaidh íoctha na muirearacha a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1933, i gcóir seirbhísí áirithe puiblí, eadhon:—

	£
1 Teaghlachas an tSeanascail	1,700
2 An tOireachtas	38,200
3 Roinn Uachtarán na hArdChomhairle	4,100
4 An tArd-Scrúdóir	5,700
5 Oifig an Aire Airgid	21,000
6 Oifig na gCoimisinéirí Ioncuim	220,000
7 Pinsin tSean-Aoise	925,000
8 Iasachtaí Aitiúla	484,000
9 Coimisiúin agus Fiosrú cháin Speisialta	2,800
10 Oifig na nOibreacha Puiblí	33,000
11 Oibreacha agus Foirgintí Puiblí	211,300
12 Saotharlann Stáit	2,400
13 Coimisiún na Stát-Sheirbhíse	4,500
14 Cúiteamh i gCailliúna Maoine	29,100
15 Cúiteamh i nDíobhála Pearsanta	800
16 Aois-Liúntaisí agus Liúntaisí Fágála	560,000
17 Rátaí ar Mhaoin an Rialtais	29,900
18 An tSeirbhís Shicréideach	3,500
19 Coimisiún na nDleacht	1,740
20 Costaisí fén Acht Timpeal Toghachán agus fé Acht na nGiúirithe	Nil
21 Costaisí Ilghnéitheacha	3,250
22 Páipéarachas agus Clódóireacht	43,000
23 Measadóireacht agus Suirbhéireacht Teorann	11,250
24 Suirbhéireacht an Ordonáis	13,130
25 Deontas Breise Talmhaíochta	675,000
26 Dlí-Mhuirearacha	19,590
27 Longlann Inis Síonnach	1,570
28 Príomh-scoileanna agus Coláistí	78,000
29 Congnamh Airgid do Shiúicre Bhiatais	Nil
30 Oifig an tSaor-Chíosa	1,410
31 Luach Saothair chun costais bhainistí Stoc Rialtais	13,500
32 Oifig an Aire Dlí agus Cirt	13,400
33 Gárda Síochána	583,000
34 Príosúin	27,070
35 Cúirt Dúithche	13,000
36 Cúirt Uachtarach agus Ard-Chúirt an Bhreithiúnais	17,870
37 Oifig Chlárathachta na Talmhan agus Oifig Chlárathachta na nDintiúrí	16,310
38 An Chúirt Chuarda	18,400
39 Oifig na nAnnálacha Puiblí	1,700
40 Tabhartaisí agus Tiomanta Déirciúla	1,100
——
41 Rialtas Aitiúla agus Sláinte Puiblí	108,000
42 Oifig an Ard-Chlárathóra	4,720
43 Gealtlann Dúndroma	6,000
44 Arachas Sláinte Náisiúnta	103,320
——
45 Oifig an Aire Oideachais	56,740
46 Bun-Oideachas	1,390,000
47 Meadhon-Oideachas	112,880
48 Ceárd-Oideachas	60,000
49 Eolaíocht agus Ealadhantacht	14,020
50 Scoileanna Ceartúcháin agus Saothair	61,200
51 An Gailerí Náisiúnta	2,010
——
52 Talmhaíocht	135,800
53 Foraoiseacht	20,600
——
54 Iascach agus Seirbhísí na Gaeltachta	75,000
55 Coimisiún na Talmhan	196,000
——
56 Tionnscal agus Tráchtáil	32,800
57 Bóithre Iarainn	10,800
58 An Bínse Bóthair Iarainn	1,260
59 Muir-Sheirbhís	3,950
60 Arachas Díomhaointis	55,600
61 Oifig Chlárathachta Mhaoine Tionnscail agus Tráchtála	6,900
——
62 Puist agus Telegrafa	700,000
63 Fóirleatha Nea-shrangach	20,000
——
64 An tArm	439,480
65 Arm-Phinsin	71,600
66 Gnóthaí Coigríche	30,000
——
67 Cumann na Náisiún	7,500
68 Forbairt Bhaiterí Leictreachais	8,000
An tIomlán	£7,864,470

That a sum not exceeding £7,864,470 be granted on account for or towards defraying the Charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1933, for certain public services, namely:—

	£
1 Governor-General's Establishment	1,700
2 Oireachtas	38,200
3 Department of the President of the Executive Council	4,100
4 Comptroller and AuditorGeneral	5,700
5 Office of the Minister for Finance	21,000
6 Office of the Revenue Commissioners	220,000
7 Old Age Pensions	925,000
8 Local Loans	480,000
9 Commissions and Special Inquiries	2,800
10 Office of Public Works	33,000
11 Public Works and Buildings	211,300
12 State Laboratory	2,400
13 Civil Service Commission	4,500
14 Property Losses Compensation	29,100
15 Personal Injuries Compensation	800
16 Superannuation and Retired Allowances	560,000
17 Rates on Government Property	29,900
18 Secret Service	3,500
19 Tariff Commission	1,740
20 Expenses under the Electoral Act, and the Juries Act	Nil
21 Miscellaneous Expenses	3,250
22 Stationery and Printing	43,000
23 Valuation and Boundary Survey	11,250
24 Ordnance Survey	13,130
25 Supplementary Agricultural Grant	675,000
26 Law Charges	19,590
27 Haulbowline Dockyard	1,570
28 Universities and Colleges	78,000
29 Beet Sugar Subsidy	Nil
30 Quit Rent Office	1,410
31 Remuneration for cost of management of Government Stocks	13,500
32 Office of the Minister for Justice	13,400
33 Gárda Síochána	583,000
34 Prisons	27,070
35 District Court	13,000
36 Supreme Court and High Court of Justice	17,870
37 Land Registry and Registry of Deeds	16,310
38 Circuit Court	18,400
39 Public Record Office	1,700
40 Charitable Donations and Bequests	1,100
——
41 Local Government and Public Health	108,000
42 General Register Office	4,720
43 Dundrum Asylum	6,000
44 National Health Insurance	103,320
——
45 Office of the Minister for Education	56,740
46 Primary Education	1,390,000
47 Secondary Education	112,880
48 Technical Instruction	60,000
49 Science and Art	14,020
50 Reformatory and Industrial Schools	61,200
51 National Gallery	2,010
——
52 Agriculture	135,800
53 Forestry	20,600
——
54 Fisheries and Gaeltacht Services	75,000
55 Land Commission	196,000
——
56 Industry and Commerce	32,800
57 Railways	10,800
58 Railway Tribunal	1,260
59 Marine Service	3,950
60 Unemployment Insurance	55,600
61 Industrial and Commercial Property Registration Office	6,900
——
62 Posts and Telegraphs	700,000
63 Wireless Broadcasting	20,000
64 Army	439,480
65 Army Pensions	71,600
——
66 External Affairs	30,000
67 League of Nations	7,500
68 Electrical Battery Development	8,000
Total	£7,864,470

—Aire Airgid

For the benefit of the House I should like to explain that this Vote on Account is based on the Estimates which were prepared by the late Administration: that we have not had time to check the Estimates, but that authority is required to expend the money after 31st March next. We are adjourning over St. Patrick's Day and the House, I think, will not meet during Holy Week, consequently the financial year will have expired, and it will be necessary for us to have the Vote in order to enable us to carry on the public services until the Dáil reassembles and until we have time to examine the Estimates in detail and to pass the necessary financial legislation.

Out of a net total of £21,969,623, which was the amount estimated would be required for the supply services during the coming year by the former Administration, a sum of £7,864,470 is asked for on account. The corresponding Vote on Account for the year 1931-32 was £7,843,498. The provision made in the Vote on Account represents the sums required approximately to defray the expenditure on supply services during the four months beginning 1st April, 1932, and ending 31st July, 1932. Accordingly, in most cases approximately one-third of the net Vote is asked for. In some cases, however, there are reasons for demanding sums greater or less than one-third of the net Vote. I do not know whether the House would like to be wearied with an explanation of these. There are quite a lot of these cases where we ask a little more or a little less than one-third of the Vote as set out in the Estimate.

Mr. Doherty

Is that your apology, or merely a statement?

Mr. Davin

I readily recognise and admit that the sum which is now being asked for is one that has been prepared, but not presented by the late Minister for Finance; and that it is not, and certainly would not, be fair to discuss it in the way in which a Vote of this kind has been previously discussed in this House, or to ask the new Minister for Finance to answer certain questions, especially in view of the short period in which he has occupied his new position. I think, however, Deputies are entitled to reasonable assurances as to the way in which the money now asked for will be spent. Money is asked for under several Votes such as the Vote for the Local Government Department, for the Land Commission, for the Board of Works, in large sums. These moneys will be spent under the supervision in some cases of the local authorities, and in other cases under the supervision of the Departments of State.

It is two or three years since, speaking for this Party in this House, I raised objection to the political preference—and I say that quite definitely— given for years past by the late Government, in the spending of money, especially by the Board of Works and the Land Commission and the Local Government Department. In this matter I refer particularly to the preference given for the past eight or nine years to men who served in the National Army during the period of the civil war.

Mr. Hogan (Galway):

Are you afraid they will get it now?

Mr. Davin

It is two years since the late Minister for Finance assured me that the time had come when that preference should cease. The moneys we are now asked to vote will be collected from every section of the taxpayers regardless of creed or political persuasion. And I say it is quite wrong to give preference to any section of the community in the spending of that money. If any preference could be justified in the spending of public money it could only be justified in giving preference to married men with dependents as against single men. I do not stand for any preference, and I hope the new Minister will give an assurance that that preference has ceased with the advent of the new Government, and that in future, in the spending of public money, the only thing that will count will be the qualification of the individual citizen to receive work where such grants are provided. I believe every citizen in the State is entitled to an equal chance and opportunity for any position available in the service of the State. The same should apply in giving work for which grants are provided at the expense of the taxpayer. I hope it is not an unreasonable assurance to ask for, and I hope the President and Minister for Finance will give that assurance before this Vote is passed.

Another matter that I would wish to draw attention to is this. I believe that a good deal of the schemes which now lie in the different Government Departments have been wound round too tightly by too much red tape. I hope on the coming in of the new Government a good deal of the red tape will be removed, and that schemes like drainage schemes lying there will be put into operation without any unnecessary delay. I believe the Minister for Finance and his Parliamentary Secretary will find that that exists to a great extent in the Board of Works, and I hope it will be the first duty of the Parliamentary Secretary to look up these schemes lying there for two or three years, take off the red tape that covers them without further delay, and let people who are waiting for work get it as soon as possible.

I notice—the present Minister for Finance of course cannot be held responsible for it—that the Improvement Vote for the Land Commission is reduced by £20,200. The spending of money in carrying out improvement work on estates acquired under the Land Acts provided very valuable and productive work for a large number of able-bodied men. I hope the Minister for Finance will call for the reasons which induced his predecessor to reduce that Vote by such a large sum, and that possibly before the end of the coming financial year additional money will be provided for that very deserving purpose.

I notice also, and I hope the Minister for Finance will give some reason for it, that no money is provided under the Local Government Vote for housing grants. Last year the sum of £212,000 was provided and voted for the purpose of enabling the local authorities and individuals to build houses under the existing Housing Acts, and I would like to know why no provision has been made in the Estimates for the coming financial year. I would like to know whether the Minister could give the House any assurance at this stage as to whether the proposal of his predecessor to reduce the pay of the ordinary Civic Guards is to be proceeded with. I have read the statements of representatives of the Fianna Fáil Party during the General Election that the Fianna Fáil Party did not favour that proposal. I would like to have an assurance now that it is not the intention of the Fianna Fáil Administration to proceed with the proposal for a reduction of pay of the ordinary Civic Guards. The late Minister for Finance in this House in November, 1929, gave members of this Party a very definite assurance, in language that could not be misunderstood, that there would be no further reduction in the pay or emoluments of the ordinary members of the Civic Guards. Speaking on that occasion, he said: "I think all that is required to be done, therefore, is to assure them"—that is, the Civic Guards—"in the most formal and explicit manner that their position is stabilised, that they need fear nothing for the future."

We are all aware that previous to the recent general election certain proposals were made public as a result of which the Ministry hoped to secure a considerable saving in the Estimates for the Civic Guard by reducing the pay of the ordinary Guards. As an ex-member of the Public Accounts Committee I can truthfully say that it is possible to reduce the Estimates for the Civic Guard, but if savings are going to be effected on that particular Estimate, I think it is the bounden duty of the present administration to start effecting these reductions at the top and certainly not at the bottom. Every time you reduce that pay of a lowly-paid State servant or other wage-earner you reduce the purchasing power of the population where that money is normally spent. I, speaking for the present Labour Party, would strongly protest against any further proposal on the part of the present Administration to effect any further reductions in the Civic Guard Estimates in the case of those who are in receipt of £3 or £3 5s. per week.

There is one other matter which I would like to bring under the notice of the Minister and his colleagues. On 22nd October last year, acting on behalf of this Party, I put down a motion demanding the setting up of a Food Prices Tribunal. In the ordinary way, that motion would have been discussed in Private Members' time had a general election not been called in the meantime. Deputy Lemass as representing the Fianna Fáil Party and in Opposition at the time, put down an amendment to my motion detailing the form of Tribunal which it was desirable should be set up to protect the ordinary consumer. I want to say here that the Labour Party are quite prepared to accept the amendment which appeared on the Order Paper of the last Dáil, indicating the type of Tribunal which should be set up for the purpose of protecting the consumer against any attempt on the part of the butter merchants or other merchants to fleece them or to charge unduly high prices. I hope that during the adjournment period it will be possible for the Minister for Industry and Commerce to think out in detail and to produce to the House after the adjournment the form of Tribunal that should be set up. The President and the Minister for Finance cannot forget the huge increase in the price of bacon following the recent imposition of a tariff on imported bacon. That is only one of many glaring instances of what is likely to happen following the imposition of tariffs on imported foodstuffs. In view of the fact that further tariffs may be imposed on foodstuffs, I think it is very desirable and very necessary that a Food Prices Tribunal such as that outlined by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, Deputy Lemass on the old Order Paper, should be set up and set up without further delay. I recognise that the Minister has not had a fair opportunity or reasonable time to go into everything for which an ordinary Minister for Finance should be prepared to answer to the House. I will content myself by asking, and I hope he will admit that there is nothing unreasonable in the request, that he should give us an assurance on the question of the Food Prices Tribunal and also an assurance that he does not, as Minister, stand for a reduction in the pay of the ordinary Guards.

Mr. O'Hanlon

There is a matter which I would think is of urgent importance, and I would like to draw attention to it before we adjourn, that is the provision, either by means of loans or otherwise, of seeds and manures for people in the country who are now about to put in their crops. I have a number of resolutions—I am not going to weary the House by reading them—from various districts in my county asking me to urge the necessity for providing money either by loan or otherwise through the county councils for the purchase of seeds and manures for farmers in various parts of the county who are not in a position to buy them themselves. I know of several instances where, taking advantage of the present very fine weather, the farmers have prepared the ground for crops and where they have no money themselves to buy the seeds or manures. I know there are some counties in which the Department of Agriculture have given grants for the purchase of seeds and manures at reduced prices. A sum has been distributed in the County Cavan in this way, but there are many farmers who are not able to pay any price at present but yet who do not want the seeds free.

If provision could be made between now and the reassembly of the Dáil for loans or, to do as was done before, to authorise the county councils to assist out of the rates, it might meet the difficulty. It is a matter of very great urgency, and while we may be tackling other problems such as unemployment, the best means you can get of providing employment is to get people working on the land. I know that in my county the acreage under tillage will be considerably decreased this year unless some capital is advanced to the farmers to provide seeds and manures. Of course I may be told that such facilities are given through the Credit Corporation, but the machinery by which loans are granted through the Credit Corporation is altogether too slow to meet the present emergency. I am sorry the Minister for Agriculture is not here, but I would ask the President, and perhaps the Minister for Finance in consultation with the Minister for Agriculture, to go into this matter, to regard it as a matter of urgency and see if anything can be done. If we have to wait until the 20th April it may be too late to get the crops in.

Mr. Dillon

I think a debate on the Vote on Account is scarcely the appropriate time to review all the questions that arise on the Budget. I imagine, however, it is the occasion to draw the attention of the Executive to matters of urgent importance so that the House and the country may be assured that during the adjournment the Executive will concern itself with the question of providing ways and means of escaping from the serious possibilities that arise in certain connections. The first of these to which I would draw the attention of the Minister for Lands and Fisheries is the incursion of trawlers into the fishing grounds of Irish fishermen. Several attempts have been made to ascertain why it was that the Government which has just gone out of office has never been able to deal with that problem. As far as I have been able to find out, there is some constitutional difficulty about Irish patrol boats arresting British trawlers. They can apparently arrest foreign trawlers, but any trawler domiciled within the British Commonwealth of Nations is apparently immune as far as the Free State patrol boats are concerned. Whether I am correct in that assumption I am not in a position to say, but to the best of my information that is one of the difficulties. I think the fishermen of the Gaeltacht should be assured to-day that the Government will concern itself immediately with the solution of that problem, and that at the earliest possible moment the Irish Free State patrol boats will be vested with full powers to arrest and hold any trawler that is caught poaching on our fishing beds and destroying not only the fish but the very means of livelihood of countless people who are keeping the Gaeltacht alive and without whom the Gaeltacht will cease to exist and our national language die.

There is another important matter which I think I should mention. There are over 76,000 people in this city living in what can only be described as filthy tenements. When I last had occasion to examine the facts closely, there was at least one case of fifteen people living, sleeping and eating in one room. They consisted of a father, mother and ten children, as well as a married daughter and child. There were numbers of rooms in which twelve people lived. One room came under my notice in which as the doctor came in to help a mother bring her child into the world, the grandmother lay dead beside her in the same room, and they were waiting for the funeral to start. That such conditions could continue to exist in a Christian country is loathsome. I feel certain that this Administration will give an assurance to the people who are living under such conditions that they will not rest until they are ended. There is only one way of putting an end to them, by wiping out the tenement house system in the city of Dublin. Until that is done it is idle to call this a Christian country because we are forgetting the poor that we were elected to look after.

Lastly, I would suggest that this Administration would give some assurance to labourers that their long cherished ambition of being provided with facilities for becoming owners of their own homes should be realised. The Government should carefully consider the problem and devise a scheme whereby agricultural labourers who wish to acquire their cottages on the same terms as small farmers acquired their land under the Land Acts will be able to do so. Doubtless there are other matters calling for attention, but I do not propose to refer to them now, because I assume they will arise on the Budget. I submit with great respect that these three matters are urgent, particularly that arising out of fisheries and out of the Dublin slums. I have considerable hope that this Administration will lose no time in giving those people an assurance that they will not be forgotten, and that their grievances will soon be remedied.

Mr. MacEntee

With regard to the question of political preference, I can tell Deputy Davin that we have already given proof that as far as we are concerned that is at an end. One of the first things I did in my administrative capacity off my own bat, so to speak, was to issue a minute stating that henceforth all positions in Government control were to be thrown open to all citizens, without regard to class, creed or political affiliations. We have done that, not because we have a prejudice against ex-National Army men but because we regard all the people as our people, and think they are fully entitled to have all the emoluments and all the positions of public employment thrown open to them that their talents and their abilities merit.

Mr. Davin

Does that apply to works carried out by local authorities with grants provided by the State?

Mr. MacEntee

I assume that does not come directly under my Department. I think the Minister for Local Government and Public Health has already issued a minute in the same terms. With regard to the improvement work in the Board of Works, I think anyone who has noted the dynamic energy of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance in this House may rest assured that that Department has now really become a Board of Works, and that we shall see a great improvement in the efficiency and businesslike administration of that Board.

With regard to the improvement Vote of the Land Commission, I shall ask the Minister for Lands and Fisheries to look into the matter, to see that the reduction under that particular sub-head has not been occasioned by any intention to limit the amount of employment which will be available under the Vote. With regard to the reduction in the grants for housing, I have been informed that these have been occasioned by the nature of the provisions of the Housing Act passed in the last Dáil. I have not had time to look into the matter, but that is the information that has been placed at my disposal, and I give it in view of the fact that I have not made a personal investigation, and I give it with a certain amount of reserve.

With regard to the reduction in the pay of the Guards, unfortunately I am not in a position to pledge myself that there will not be all-round economies, but I can assure our friends in the Labour Party that we will avoid so far as we possibly can trenching upon the already—and I say it in all sincerity— almost insufficient pay of those responsible for the preservation of the public peace in the State. In that connection I should like to utter a word of warning. I find from enquiries that have been made that the Budget position next year is likely to be very much worse than the late Minister for Finance ever led this House to believe. We are going, as far as we can, to see that economies will be secured in the purchase of materials and in matters of that sort. As far as the lower grades of the Civil Service and the lower ranks of the Gárda are concerned we hope to leave them immune from any economies that may be made. But I must make my position quite clear. At the moment, after a preliminary inspection of the situation, I should say that that is merely a hope.

With regard to the question of the Food Prices Tribunal, I understand that the Minister for Industry and Commerce, from a conversation I had with him, is about to have a Food Prices Tribunal set up at the earliest possible moment.

As to the question raised by Deputy O'Hanlon, I find that an allocation of over £60,000 was made from the £250,000 Unemployment Grant to the Department of Agriculture, which was spent, amongst other things, on schemes for the provision of seeds and manures. My Department informs me that up to the present they have not received any representation as to the insufficiency of these schemes. I will have the remarks of Deputy O'Hanlon conveyed to the Department of Agriculture to see if it is availing to the fullest extent of that portion of the grant apportioned to it for that purpose. At any rate, £60,000 was allocated to the Department for the provision of seeds and manures.

Mr. O'Hanlon

Were free seeds given out of the relief grant?

Mr. MacEntee

So I understand.

Mr. O'Hanlon

There is an arrangement by which certain county committees of agriculture got seed, but there still remains something to be done for other persons. I am sorry the Minister for Agriculture is not here. I am sure he is conversant with conditions in the country, as all Deputies should be conversant with them after the General Election. We should see that the promises made then by the Ministry in office and by the Ministry that went out of office and by most Deputies who spoke on public platforms, be carried out. There was tremendous sympathy with the farmers a month ago. I want that sympathy to become a reality now. There is no question but the farmers are in a most deplorable condition, many of them being without capital and unable to put in the crops this year. I think the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Agriculture, as well as the President, should see that the promises are carried out. We cannot wait twelve months in order to get agriculture on a proper footing. We are after going through a year of depression. As far as County Cavan is concerned, there are areas there where the crops were ruined last June. I could give hundreds of instances where farmers did not get enough out of the oat crop to provide seed this year. It was the same with regard to potatoes. If we are sincere about doing anything for the farmers now is the time to do it.

The Chairman of the Agricultural League in County Cavan, at a meeting the other day, mentioned that while there were a few of us here representing agriculture he did not forget the fact that there were many others amongst the various Parties here who are farmers or farmers' representatives, and that it did seem to be necessary that somebody should make sure that the Ministers and others would not suffer a lapse of memory in regard to the farmers. I would appeal to the Government not to shelve this question until the 20th of April, and find at the end of the year that agriculture is in a much worse condition than we found it in last year, and that the unemployment schemes you have designed for the future will come to nought because of the condition of the farmers.

Mr. MacEntee

I quite appreciate the importance of this matter, and I will convey to the Minister for Agriculture what Deputy O'Hanlon has said. I quite realise and appreciate the fair way in which Deputy O'Hanlon has commented on this matter. We are not asking that people should be content to have these schemes deferred for twelve months, but we will ask Deputy O'Hanlon and others to remember that we have not been twelve months in office. We have been only five days.

Mr. O'Hanlon

I quite agree.

Mr. MacEntee

I hope that we shall establish this precedent in the House at any rate, that we shall never make a statement that we do not mean to stand over. I have given to the Deputy the information that has been furnished to me as to the provision already made in this connection. I understand that the Deputy's point is that provision should be made for granting loans for this particular purpose. I shall ask the Minister for Agriculture to see what the Agricultural Credit Corporation can do and whether anything else cannot be done through local co-operative societies or other organisations.

Mr. O'Hanlon

The Minister recognises the urgency.

Mr. MacEntee

I do. With regard to the question raised by Deputy Dillon, as to safeguarding our fishing grounds, that is a matter which has long agitated us. We believe that the present machinery—the old steamer that is being used—is not only inefficient but obsolete and expensive. We are having the question of a new patrol service looked into. Whether we will be able to give any practical effect to the conclusions in regard to that before the end of this year, I am not in a position to say. It will probably mean the provision of a different type of steamer and possibly of more steamers.

Mr. Dillon

Will the Minister see that whatever patrol vessel is used it will have full power to deal with a trawler, no matter whence it comes?

Mr. MacEntee

That will associate the question of the keeping of these grounds with the Department of External Affairs. I have no doubt, from the known attitude of the President with regard to these things, he will see that Irish interests are safeguarded. Of course it ultimately comes down to the question of the armament of the patrol boat. On occasions, I suppose we will have to bear that in mind, even when we feel that we have right on our side, because the question of might must also be considered.

With regard to the question of tenement houses, one of the matters which we as an Opposition Party had under consideration for a long time was the establishment of a Housing Board. I know from conversations I have had with the Minister for Local Government that that matter is not being lost sight of, that he is making preliminary enquiries with a view to clearing the ground and getting that Board established and that the work of rehousing the people not only in Dublin but throughout the country will be taken in hands, together with the question of providing employment. Naturally, that is one of the ways in which we can most usefully provide employment.

With regard to the question of the purchase by agricultural labourers of their cottages, even before we came into power we had set a committee of our Party working and we came to certain conclusions. I presume that the Minister for Local Government and Public Health, who was responsible for the original Party report, will now be having the matter reexamined in the light of the fresh information which will no doubt be available to him in his Ministerial capacity. I think we have already given a pledge that we will devise some scheme which will enable the tenants or occupiers of these cottages, with proper safeguards for maintenance and repair, to become owners of their houses.

Mrs. Collins O'Driscoll

I am sorry that I did not catch what the Minister said about cuts in the salaries of junior Civil Servants. Are we to understand that there are to be no cuts?

Mr. MacEntee

Unfortunately, I am not able to give a definite pledge. I do say that every effort will be made by the Government and by me to ensure that if economies have to be made—we are hoping, if we are able to carry through our policy in relation to land annuities and matters of that sort, that we will be able to avoid economies which will trench upon the wages and salaries of the lower-grade Civil Servants and of the Gárda Síochána—everything else will be cut before the standard of living of the lower-grade Civil Servants and Gárda is reduced. I cannot go further than that.

Mr. Anthony

I want to raise a matter——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is this by way of a question? I called on the Minister for Finance to conclude.

Mr. Anthony

There were other matters raised.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

You may raise it by way of question, but not by way of speech.

Mr. Anthony

I do not want to embarrass the present Ministry in any way, but it is usual before long adjournments take place to raise certain issues. Issues have been raised by other Deputies and I claim the same right as any other Deputy in this House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Anthony has claimed certain rights. Every Deputy in this House has certain rights. I looked round the House two or three times and no Deputy stood up to make any contribution to the debate. I distinctly called upon the Minister for Finance to conclude.

Mr. Anthony

I want to ask the Minister a question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I want Deputy Anthony to understand that I am allowing him to ask a question, but not to make a speech.

Mr. Anthony

I want to ask, through you, either the Minister for Finance or the President to indicate to the House what is his policy on unemployment. We heard from a number of platforms during the recent General Election a great deal of solicitude expressed for the unemployed. We have in the City of Cork relatively more unemployed than in any other part of the Free State. I am very much concerned with this question, and I think there should be no adjournment of this House until we have an indication of policy from the Government. The last President was on these occasions asked in the same way to state his proposals, and I do not see why we should depart from that precedent. I ask the Minister the question, but if the President is prepared to answer it I think it would be his privilege.

Mr. MacEntee

I do not know whether or not Deputy Anthony is really serious in putting the question which he does. If I were to give an outline of our whole programme to deal with the unemployment problem, we would have hours of debate, and possibly would not have agreement at the end of it. Our programme to solve the unemployment problem can be put shortly in this way: that, so long as Irish hands are idle, nothing that can be made in this country or grown in this country should be imported unless very good reason can be shown for its importation. That is our policy.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolution reported to the Dáil and agreed to.