Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 3 Nov 1932

Vol. 44 No. 8

Vote 58—Railway Tribunal.

Mr. Lemass

I move:

Go ndeontar suim ná raghaidh thar £1,236 chun slánuithe na suime is ga chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar crioch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1933, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí eile an Bhínse Bhóthair Iarainn a bunuíodh fé Acht na mBóthar Iarainn, 1924 (Uimh, 29 de 1924).

That a sum not exceeding £1,236 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1933, for the salaries and other Expenses of the Railway Tribunal constituted under the Railways Act, 1924 (No. 29 of 1924).

Mr. Good

Does the Minister anticipate that this tribunal will continue to serve any useful purpose? I do not know that it discharges duties of a very important character.

Mr. Lemass

I am not inclined to agree with the Deputy there. I see a long life of useful activity before the tribunal.

Mr. Good

Would the Minister give us some information about the useful activities which the tribunal discharges at the moment? When this tribunal was set up, the main and important function that it had to discharge was to fix the question of rates. The rates that it has fixed cannot now be obtained. If those rates are sought, traffic cannot be obtained on that basis. I notice that at a recent meeting of the Railway Tribunal permission had to be extended to the railways to reduce these rates in some cases by forty or fifty per cent. Consequently, what is the use of fixing them? If the Minister sees, as I have said, that a useful purpose will be served by the continuance of the tribunal I would like to know what that purpose is at the moment.

Mr. Lemass

Apart from any other question, the tribunal, of course, is a statutory body and has to be maintained. The tribunal was established for the protection of the public. It was designed to ensure that any trader or any association that felt it was being adversely affected by any action of the railway company could have its case examined before it. At the present time the Railway Tribunal is occupied in considering an application by the railway company for permission to charge exceptional rates such as the Deputy referred to. The Railway Tribunal was set up by an Act of the Oireachtas, and until the law is changed it must be maintained. The tribunal fixed the standard revenue for the railway company and the charges to yield that revenue. Matters arising out of that will come up for consideration on the transport legislation to be introduced.

Mr. Good

The railway companies are satisfied that this tribunal is a hindrance rather than an assistance to them. They have, as the Minister knows, to compete against road traffic. The rates for road traffic are not fixed by any tribunal. I hold it is unfair to ask the railways to be handicapped in that competition by rates fixed by any tribunal, so that I say this tribunal is a definite hindrance to the success of our railways, as they have to compete for traffic under the circumstances I have stated. Therefore, I think that under existing circumstances the tribunal should not be continued. Another function of the tribunal, as the Minister knows, is to see that the railways get a standard income. Since this tribunal was set up the railways have never had a standard income.

Mr. Lemass

That is not due to the tribunal.

Mr. Good

In my opinion it was a function that the Railway Tribunal was set up to discharge: that is, to see that the railways got the standard income which was fixed under the Railways Act of 1924.

Mr. Lemass

Is the Deputy advocating the abolition of the tribunal?

Mr. Good

I repeat that the tribunal is a definite hindrance to the success of the railways rather than a help to them. It is costing the State a considerable sum of money, and I cannot see the use of maintaining it.

Mr. Dockrell

In view of what the Minister has said I propose to confine my remarks to the question of railway rates. At the present time the rates are fixed by the Railway Tribunal, and, as I understand the position, the railway company cannot, except in exceptional circumstances, depart from those rates. The rates are, for instance, from Dublin to some station in the country.

Mr. Lemass

On a point of order, this does not arise on this Vote.

Mr. Dockrell

Am I not in order in speaking on the question of railway rates.

An Ceann Comhairle

Not on this Vote.

Mr. Dockrell

Is not this the Vote dealing with the Railway Tribunal?

Mr. Lemass

Undoubtedly, but the Deputy cannot criticise the legislation which established the tribunal.

Mr. Dockrell

I do not propose to do that, but as this is the tribunal that fixes rates for the railway companies I wish to point out to the Minister that it is an anachronism to fix rates from a station in Dublin to a station in the country. In other words, the Minister ought to consider the question of collection and delivery rates. At the present time the public are looking for such rates from the railway company.

Vote put and agreed to.