Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Dec 1932

Vol. 45 No. 5

Seeds and Fertilisers Supply Bill, 1932—Second Stage.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Local Government and Public Health (Dr. Ward)

I move the Second Reading. Since the present Government came into office, in March last, representations have been made from various parts of the country with regard to the scarcity of seeds for the purposes of the spring sowing. It was felt that it would be well to enable local bodies to meet necessitous cases, in their areas, by enabling them to promote a scheme for the supplying of seeds for oats and seed potatoes to small farmers in need of such facilities, the cost to be recovered after the harvesting is completed. County councils throughout the country were requested to consider the position locally, and where the need existed to enable the farmers to obtain seed supplies, to make arrangements accordingly. The county councils were authorised to arrange with merchants for the supply of seed potatoes and oats, on loan terms, pending the harvesting of the crops. When an application was accepted by the county council the order was sent to the merchant who would be named by the applicant in his application, and from whom the applicant arranged to receive delivery of the seeds, having filled up the application on a prescribed form, guaranteeing to the county council the repayment of the cost of the seeds. The seed supplies were undertaken on this basis in about 20 counties in all; the total amount of advances of credit facilities arrangements involved approximately £25,000 The supply scheme has been strictly limited to necessitous cases, which were comparatively small, in each of the areas. In connection with the seed supplies of barley, oats and potatoes and also supplies of fertilisers, forms undertaking repayment were signed by the recipients in all cases. The recipients are responsible, in every case, for their share of interest on the money borrowed and any administrative expenses. The undertakings provided for repayment on harvesting on 31st December, 1932. It is anticipated that portion of the money will still be outstanding on 31st December, 1932, and it is desired to provide for recovery with the poor rate levies of 1933 and 1934. The Bill makes such provision.

Notice taken that twenty Deputies were not present; House counted, and twenty Deputies being present——

Dr. Ward

The Bill proposes to validate the sales of seeds and fertilisers by county councils and to give legal authority to agreements made by such local bodies with any occupier to obtain seeds and fertilisers. Provision is made in the Bill to ensure that the obtaining of seeds is not to be regarded as particularly belonging to a local body. Various things already done are proposed to be validated, and provision is made for the recovery of sums already given under the agreement. It is proposed, under the Bill, to validate the borrowing of such sums. It was intended originally to find means for the recovery of sums advanced in that way, but in point of fact no such provision was made. It is felt that legislation of a permanent character may not be desirable for the purpose of empowering local authorities to proceed with supplies in areas when the necessity for supplementing individual effort might be found to be necessary. That matter is under consideration at the moment, and the Minister hopes to be able to introduce a Bill early in the new year giving the local bodies the necessary powers to get these facilities which are proposed to be validated under this Bill. The present Bill, as Deputies will observe, deals entirely with the legislation of the loan facilities already put into operation in connection with the supply of seeds.

Mr. Roddy

I should like to know whether the Parliamentary Secretary can state how many county councils did avail of the scheme? It is rather difficult to hear the Parliamentary Secretary, but I understood him to say that £25,000 was expended under this particular scheme, and that the farmers who benefited under the scheme would repay the amount advanced. I should like to know what has been repaid already, and, if a certain amount has not been repaid, what steps the Parliamentary Secretary is going to take to recover the balance still unpaid.

Dr. Ward

If the Deputy can find time to read the terms of the Bill, I think he will find that the steps to be taken to find out the outstanding liabilities and to recover them are stated in the Bill. I stated that upwards of twenty local bodies had availed of the terms of the scheme and that the amount involved was £25,000.

Mr. Roddy

What I want to know is how much of that has been repaid.

Dr. Ward

I do not think that I am required to give that information to the Deputy.

Mr. Good

It is very essential information.

Mr. Morrissey

Might we have an undertaking from the Parliamentary Secretary that, when he is in a position to find it out, he will supply the information to the House as to how much of the money already advanced has been repaid?

Dr. Ward

Provision was made for repayment up to the 31st December, 1932. Under the arrangement, people who secured seeds under the scheme up to the 31st December, 1932, were to make repayment. If it is found at the end of that period—that is, at the end of this month—that there is still a considerable amount outstanding, power is taken under the Bill to extend the time up to the end of the financial year 1933-1934. I do not think that the point raised is very material, but I could give the required information to the Deputy at a later stage.

Mr. Good

Will the term for any payments that are due to be made on the 31st December, 1932, be extended to a further date?

Dr. Ward

Yes.

Mr. Good

To what date?

Dr. Ward

I will refer the Deputy to the part of the Bill which specifies that.

Mr. Good

Will the Deputy give a straight answer to a straight question?

Dr. Ward

I will again refer the Deputy to the section. The section says that "any sum which is declared by this Act to be payable to the council of a county and which is not otherwise paid to or recovered by such council before the 1st day of January, 1933, may

(a) if the person by whom the same is payable is rated to the poor rate in that county, be recovered by the levying by such council of a special rate to be added to and collected with the poor rate assessed on the tenement in respect of which such person is so rated as aforesaid, and

(b) If the person by whom the same is payable is not rated to the poor rate in that county, be recovered by means of a special rate to be made by such council for the purpose of this section to which such person shall be rated and which shall be collected and may be recovered in the same manner and by the same means as poor rate may be collected and recovered by that council."

That will be for the financial year 1933-1934.

Mr. Roddy

Does the Parliamentary Secretary consider that the chances of the recovery of the sums owing will be more favourable then than at the present moment?

Dr. Ward

Undoubtedly.

Mr. Roddy

The Parliamentary Secretary is an optimist.

Dr. Ward

It is a matter that can be discussed later.

Mr. Cosgrave

What does the Parliamentary Secretary mean by that?

Dr. Ward

I suggest that these questions would arise more appropriately at a future stage of the Bill.

Mr. Cosgrave

If the Parliamentary Secretary admits that he has not the information, we can wait until the future time he has mentioned; but if he does not know what it is all about, I do not see what is to be gained. Has the Parliamentary Secretary any information as to what form the proceedings will take for the recovery of the amounts outstanding? Will it be by Civil Bill or by other means?

Dr. Ward

The Deputy, I think, will have to wait for further developments.

Question—"That the Bill be read a Second Time"—put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 6th December, 1932.