When the Pig Industries Tribunal was set up, the members of it thought they would examine in particular one of the terms of reference with regard to the regulations of export to particular countries. They have submitted an interim report on the measures necessary for the immediate control of bacon exports. It is expected the control of the imports of bacon and live pigs and carcases for the manufacture of bacon into the United Kingdom will begin to operate at an early date, possibly about the middle of August. The Agricultural Market Commission set up by the British Government brought in a recommendation, which I believe has been adopted, to the effect that the supplies of bacon for British consumption should be stabilised somewhere about ten and a half million cwts. The plan they are adopting, so far as we can learn, is that they will find out exactly what the home production is likely to be for the year, and they will then give quotas for the import of the remainder. No quota will be given to any country that has not got the machinery to deal with it. In other words, unless there is a central authority or machinery to deal with the quotas in globo, no quota will be given. We have, therefore, to take powers to accept a quota and divide it into sub-quotas amongst people likely to export in the future.
The Pig Industries Tribunal set up by the Government have advised: (1) that it will be necessary to make regulations and to acquire powers to make the necessary sub-allocations of the quota allotted to the Saorstát, and regulate exports accordingly; (2) that exporters of bacon and live pigs and also exporters of carcases for conversion into bacon should be registered; (3) that for the purpose of tendering advice on all or any of the matters concerned, a consultative council should be set up, or perhaps consultative councils, and (4) that there should be power to re-allocate such quotas from time to time. It is impossible, of course, to anticipate, even in this one case of the export of bacon into Great Britain, what regulations will be required, and it will be absolutely impossible to anticipate future quotas either with Great Britain or any other country. Until we have got some experience of the working of these quotas it is felt that the only possible way to deal with them is to get power under a Bill such as this to make orders and regulations to meet each problem, as it arises.
We ought to be in position, after six or 12 months' experience, to bring in a Bill which will define more precisely what the regulations should be. Under existing conditions it is felt a Bill enabling the Minister to make the necessary orders and regulations is the only thing feasible. Deputies will realise that these quotas that many countries are adopting, Great Britain included, are very often allotted and there is not much time given to prepare to fill the quota. Orders and regulations have to be acted upon very urgently. It could never be done by the Department concerned making the necessary regulations and orders and acting on them, giving, if necessary, the power to the Dáil to object to or rescind these regulations or orders afterwards if they thought they were objectionable.
Under the Bill it is laid down that the Minister will proceed by order. He will proceed to register those who may wish to export. As soon as the quota is allotted in any particular instance the Minister would make the necessary order with regard to registration. Every person would be entitled to apply for a special quota, and if the total applied for did not exceed what was allotted there would be no great difficulty in dealing with the position from the point of view of applications, because when you know the proportion that came in, in a particular trade, and considered their capability of supplying the quota, they would get the quotas without further question. Having got the quota, the Minister would have power to issue an order specifying the amount they are entitled to export in a given period and the amount they are bound to export in a given period, because if an applicant were to make application for a quota with no intention of filling it he would be likely to do damage to the country as a whole. If the quota is not filled over the period, then it is permanently reduced; so no applicant should be allowed to apply for a large quota without the intention and determination of filling that quota.
There will be regulations, therefore, issued with regard to the filling of the quotas. There will be a definite quantity set for each period. Periods may vary in different cases. In the bacon quota for Great Britain it is thought the period will be a fortnight, that is that a certain amount must be sent each fortnight. There are countries giving quarterly quotas, that is for three months, when the quota must be filled in any period of that three months. We are not yet sure what the period will be, but whatever the period will be there must be an order for the amount to be exported by each applicant,
There will be penalties prescribed, also by order, in cases where the conditions are not carried out. There is also power taken by the Minister to fill part of the quota if that necessity arises. These powers, of course, would only be used to fill a deficiency. We might find a position, for instance, that towards the end of the period, whether a fortnight, or three months, or whatever the period, that there was grave danger of the quota not being filled. It might be necessary for the Minister, therefore, to go and buy the product, whatever it might be, and have it exported in order to fill the quota. That power would only be taken in a case of necessity such as that, and in fact would not be necessary, even in a case of that kind, because there will be a consultative council, and that consultative council will be particularly concerned with the allocation of quotas and dealing with quotas.
The consultative council will, I presume, have to meet very regularly, and have to be available for consultation if there is danger of the quota not being filled. They might find that while it is possible for some members to fill the quota that other members may not be able to do so. If it can be done in any other way by the trade the Minister does not intend to come into the business. He will only come in if it is found impossible for the trade to do it.
There is also power given to officers of customs and excise to deal with contraventions of the order. I have met the members of the trade in connection with this matter. I have met exporters of carcases—I will not say every exporter of carcases, because there are numbers of exporters of carcases that are producers themselves— but I have met the representatives of the exporters of carcases over the Border, and other substantial exporters of live pigs, who were asked to a conference on this subject. These particular regulations were discussed and, as far as we could get advice from the trade, we have, I think, drafted this Bill on the best possible lines. I also asked those representatives to send me a panel of names out of which I could select the consultative council necessary. There will possibly be two consultative councils, one for the export of bacon and carcases and the other for live-stock and the other for live pigs.
As soon as the Bill goes through, the consultative council will be selected, and then we can get their advice on the regulations before they are finally published. We will have to have regulations drafted and ready for submission to them, because there will be very little time to spare even if we get this Bill through in the ordinary time.
We expect the closest co-operation of the trade in this matter, that is with regard to the quota for pigs and bacon and carcases. We would have power, under the Bill, in case any other quota was allowed to us, to call in a similar consultative council to deal with the matter. We had an instance of this eight or nine months ago, when we got a quota for the export of butter to Belgium. The difficulty we found, at that time, was that if four or five different exporters went into the market they might cut prices in such a way as not to get the best advantage, because at the time the price was more attractive there than in Great Britain. On that particular occasion we called the majority, at any rate, of the exporters together. We made representations to those present and they voluntarily agreed to allow the export trade to be conducted through one channel, and, in that way, the best possible advantage was got from the market. We had to get voluntary agreement. If any one exporter stood out against us that would have injured our scheme very much. Under this Bill we would have power to deal with such a case as that. I may also say that I, personally, consider the Bill as a temporary measure to be used in the hope of getting more experience, and being able, in 12 months or so, to bring in a more extensive Bill than the present Bill, to remove, if you like, most of the powers from the Minister which he gets under this Bill, and to put into a statute, as soon as we have the necessary experience, all that is necessary to provide for a better Bill. Meanwhile, for the present, I think this is the only possible way to meet the situation.
