Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Jun 1934

Vol. 53 No. 9

Finance Bill, 1934—Report Stage.

I beg to move amendment No. 1:—

In page 4, to add at the end of Section 2 a sub-section as follows:—

(2) Where the Revenue Commissioners are satisfied, in respect of any house or building of which the annual value ascertained in accordance with Section 187 of the Income Tax Act, 1918, does not exceed five pounds, that—

(a) such house or building is bona fide let to a tenant, and

(b) the cost of the repairs, maintenance, and insurance of such house or building is borne by the landlord or immediate lessor, and

(c) the annual income derived by the said landlord or immediate lessor from such house or building, taking one year with another, after making allowances for the cost to him of the said repairs, maintenance, and insurance is less than the annual value ascertained as aforesaid of such house or building,

the Revenue Commissioners may grant such relief by repayment or otherwise, as in their opinion is just.

In the course of the debate on the Committee Stage, in reply to a speech made by Deputy Thrift, I said that I anticipated I should be able to introduce on Report an amendment which would meet the case of cottages which were let at what I might term uneconomic rents. The amendment which is now before the House will, in my opinion, do that fully.

I must confess that I am very greatly disappointed with the amendment—not that it does not do what the Minister said. I admit it does. He only said he would deal with cottage property. I felt sure, however, that when he came to look into the case he would see that the equity does not stop there. There is no equity in asking a man to pay income tax if he can show that he has no income. He ought not, in all fairness, be asked to pay income tax. I felt confident that when the Minister came to consider the matter he would see that fair-play and equity demanded some such amendment as that which I suggested. It was put up by him that the matter could be adjusted by revaluation, but I think the debate showed that there was no validity on that side of the case at all. In the first place the appeal for revaluation could only come after expenditure had been incurred, after an actual loss on the property had occurred, and after a claim for income tax on that property had been put in and would have to be met. It would be impossible to obtain a refund, although there might be no income to justify that income tax. It is perfectly obvious in the case for which I am arguing where, instead of property producing income it produces an actual loss over a period of years, that no appeal for revaluation could reduce the property to the zero valuation, the only thing which would justify a zero tax. If a loss occurs on property no revaluation will adjust that.

If a large expenditure on property has to be undertaken because of damage to the property, accidentally or otherwise, it is much more likely that an appeal for revaluation would lead to an increase instead of a diminution in the valuation. When once the property has been restored to its original condition the claim for devaluation very largely disappears. Obviously there is no point at all in the Minister's suggestion that an appeal for revaluation will meet the case. It will neither meet it partially nor wholly, and unless the Minister can see his way to extend the concession which he is allowing to the small cottages, I am afraid he is leaving himself open to the charge of doing a real injustice to those who own property on which they have to spend large sums in order to keep it in condition. Under the new measure, they will be liable for a tax upon what is no income at all. I suggest that is not fair to them. Income tax is an income tax, and they merely claim to be asked to pay on the actual income and profits that they derive from the property. I protest that this amendment does not meet the equities of the case. I am not going to ask the House to reject it. I am prepared to accept it; in so far as it goes, it does meet the case of the very small cottages and it gives their owners fair-play to a certain extent. Even if the Minister will not admit the larger plea I make—and I contend it is a just plea—I will ask him to consider this proposition which he is making in at least three respects. In the first place the limit suggested, £5, is exceedingly small. It means a rent of 1/10 and if the rent actually charged were double that, the amendment would not meet the case of any cottage whose weekly rent was 3/8 or over.

I suggest the Minister might at least change the £5 to £10. That would bring in a fair number of the small cottages for which he claims to be dealing, and I suggest he should include in the terms of his amendment, along with repairs, maintenance, and insurance, the cost of management. It is a reasonable cost which in many cases has to be paid and it diminishes the income derived from the property. The justice of it was admitted in the Finance Act of 1932 in connection with business premises. It is even more a thing to be recognised in places like small cottages where necessary charges for management are incurred and I think they should be included along with the other items of expenditure for which the Minister has made provision. Thirdly, I will suggest that he should allow an appeal to the Special Commissioners. It may be quite right administratively not to confer any legal right in this matter, but rather to leave the matter to the instincts of fair play on the part of the Revenue Commissioners. I am not protesting at all against that; that may be a much better way to proceed administratively. I think that there should be, in the interests of the public, an appeal possible to the Special Commissioner. I appeal as strongly as I can to the Minister, in the first place, in the interests of fair play, to widen his whole conception of this matter and not to press for income tax where no income accrues. If that fails, I press the Minister as strongly as I can to make these three further concessions in the amendment that he has suggested: to extend the limit to £10 instead of the £5; to include the expenses of management; and to permit an appeal to the Special Commissioner.

I am afraid that I would find it impossible to go any further than I have done to meet Deputy Thrift in this matter. On the larger issue which he raises, that of the person who finds himself compelled at the end of a period of years to spend a considerable sum in putting property in repair, I think that the complete and final answer is that that is most often the person's own fault. In the majority of cases, if he happens to be a head landlord, there is generally a repairing covenant in the leases granted. It is to his interest to see that that covenant is carried out, and if he fails to discharge his duty to himself in a case like that and permits another person to collect from the Revenue—for that is what it amounts to—a concession in respect of repairs which he does not carry out, then I think that it is he, the ground landlord or the head landlord, who will have to indemnify the Revenue against any losses that might be occasioned thereby. It is only in cases of that sort, as a general rule, that this heavy expenditure upon repairs takes place. It takes place, as the Deputy himself, I think, mentioned in the instance he put before the House, when a lease falls in and the property reverts to the ground landlord. If the Deputy is asking us to give consideration to the person who has property in his own right and has drawn the repairs allowance on account of that property over a period of years, or if he has allowed the Commissioner of Valuation to take into consideration, in fixing the valuation, an amount which would normally have to be expended upon the property in order to keep it in proper repair from year to year, and if on a basis of that valuation he has already got the repairs allowance, I do not think he has any cause of complaint if, owing to the fact that he has not maintained it in proper repair, he has to spend an abnormal amount in any one year.

With regard to the particular amendment before the House concerning the valuation of cottage property, I am advised that the limit of £5 which we have fixed as governing the concession in this case allows an ample margin. In fact, from a review of any of the examples placed before us, we know that on the basis of those examples there is an ample margin. In view of that, and that it was to meet those hard cases that the concession was originally introduced, I do not think there is any good ground for raising the valuation to which this concession would apply. On the question of management, there again I do not think we should take that into consideration. The management of such property is comparatively simple and if a person wants to claim an exemption, I think that at any rate we should not go any further than what is normally taken into consideration in fixing the valuation of property; that is, the usual thing about repairs, maintenance and insurance of such a building. The element of management might be very greatly exaggerated in a case of this sort and I do not think it should be allowed to vitiate, from the point of view of the Revenue, the grounds upon which the concession might properly be made.

With regard to the question of appeal, there again, so far as any allowance was made prior to this amendment, it was made by way of concession under Rule 8, and from the concession allowed by the Revenue Commissioners in those cases no appeal lay. In view of the fact that the amendment has been introduced to put those concessions on a proper basis, I do not think it would be equitable to ask me to give now to the owners of this property a right which they formerly did not have. Accordingly, on the question of permitting an appeal to the Special Commissioners, I am afraid that in that regard also I should have to say that I would not be prepared to consider it further.

With regard to the general question of valuation, I think that Deputy Thrift is in error in stating that before a reduction in valuation can be secured it will be necessary to have expended the money on repairs and to have paid the income tax on the property. I think that it is open to a person at any time to appeal against the existing valuation and to produce evidence that the amount which he has had to expend from year to year on the property has been actually in excess of that which has been allowed to him when first the valuation was struck or when the existing valuation was struck. If he is not able to produce that evidence, he can go at any rate to the Commissioner of Valuation and say: "Here is what is necessary to put this property into special repair—you can compute if you like on an annuity basis —here is what I should have had to pay over a considerable number of years in order to keep the property in repair." I feel that the Commissioner of Valuation would be satisfied.

Well, I assume, yes. I assume that there are properties in this country which are valued either at zero or at a very nominal sum.

I think that the Minister is not taking into account the fact that there are exceptional repairs. The property which, I think, Deputy Thrift has in mind is property on which the usual sums were spent annually to keep it in repair, but exceptional repairs occur from time to time—a gable wall may crack, dry not may take place, a severe storm may occur and so on—and no provision can be made for these exceptional expenses. I think that the Minister should take that into consideration.

Amendment agreed to.

I move amendment No. 2:—

In page 25, First Schedule, in the second column, opposite reference No. 22, after the word "towelling" but within the bracket the words "and webbing cloths used in the manufacture of collars and fancy piqué used in the manufacture of dress suits."

The Minister was given a very full description during the Committee Stage of the difficulties that shirt and collar manufacturers had as a result of the way in which this particular tariff was imposed. I understood from him, on Committee Stage, that he was giving the matter further consideration and having further discussions with the manufacturers in connection with this matter. I should like to know whether he is able to tell the House that he has any solution of the difficulties of the shirt manufacturers.

I undertook to consider the possibility of accepting the Deputy's amendments with respect to reference No. 22. I am satisfied, as a result of the examination that we carried out, that it would be impossible to administer the Bill with the inclusion of the words "and webbing cloths used in the manufacture of collars," as the definition would be too wide and loose. It will be necessary, therefore, to continue to operate the licensing provisions as at present until we secure adequate production here. That is as far as we can go in respect of webbing cloth. If the difficulties of the definition could be got over I would be prepared to except them. The Deputy can be satisfied that no collar manufacturer will be impeded in the importation of cloth or in the getting of a licence to import that cloth free of duty unless and until the home production is adequate to supply our requirements.

Amendment No. 2, by leave, withdrawn.

I move amendment No. 3:—

In page 25, First Schedule, at reference No. 22, to add at the end of the second column the following word and sub-paragraph—

"or

(iv) piqué cloth."

Amendment agreed to.

I move amendment No. 4:—

In page 25, First Schedule, at reference No. 22, in the third provision in the fourth column, after the word "vehicles" to insert the words "or in the binding of books".

I mentioned on the Committee Stage that the intention in inserting this amendment in the Bill was to exclude from the scope of the Bill bookbinders' cloth.

Amendment agreed to.
Question—"That the Bill, as amended, be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.
Top
Share