Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Jul 1934

Vol. 53 No. 13

Dairy Produce (Amendment) Bill, 1934—Second Stage.

Minister for Defence (Mr. Aiken)

The Department of Agriculture have been experimenting with travelling creameries. The Department believe that for the future it will be very useful to have a travelling creamery to cover districts which they want to test for milk supplies. Hitherto if the Department wanted to test out the supply of milk which was really available in any particular district, they had to build a creamery and if after the erection of the creamery and the expenditure of a lot of money on it, it was found that there was a shortage of supply, the creamery failed, with great loss to the guarantors, the shareholders and everybody concerned. This Bill will enable the Department of Agriculture to put these travelling creameries on the road in scattered districts in which the people claim that they have a sufficient supply of milk to maintain an ordinary creamery.

Under the Dairy Produce Act of 1924, no provision was made for the licensing of a travelling creamery. Everything in that Act, the licences and the different regulations, related to premises. It was held by legal people that "premises" does not include a creamery travelling on wheels. It is, therefore, necessary to amend the Act of 1924 so that the Minister may, in future, be able to license a travelling creamery. The first seven sections of this Bill deal with the Act of 1924 so that the travelling creameries may be established and they extend the provisions as to licences and inspection of creameries and also the revocation of licences where the travelling creamery is found to be kept in a bad way and is producing bad stuff. Section 8 deals with a different matter altogether. In the 1924 Act and in two amending Acts since—those of 1928 and 1931— power was taken by the Minister for Agriculture to allow Ballycanew Creamery, in County Wexford, to deal with cream which was separated in the farmers' own homes. It is the only creamery in the Saorstát to which this provision applies. It was found necessary to make that exception in 1924 and again in 1928 and 1931. This Bill also proposes to give a further licence to this creamery to take cream separated in the farmers' homes until March, 1937.

Mr. Belton

Of course we take it that this Bill is necessary to meet developments in the creamery business. It would be interesting to know from the Minister if the Department is satisfied with the success of the travelling creamery. The country generally would be interested to know if this development of the creamery business will lessen the cost of transport and the cost of production, especially in districts where there is not a large supply of milk. I should like to hear from the Minister what is the capacity of the travelling creamery, how many gallons of milk it will be able to deal with on its rounds, and if a plan is contemplated to have sub-centres or small centres on the route of the travelling creamery at cross-roads or at suitable intervals in its passage at which it will meet certain suppliers, or whether it will go from yard to yard. I think it would be information to the House if we had a little more explanation of the manner in which it deals with the milk. Otherwise, there is nothing in the Bill which calls for comment. The Bill is absolutely necessary to meet this new development, and as the Minister has stated, a travelling creamery was not, in the opinion of lawyers, a creamery premises within the meaning of the original Act.

Mr. Curran

I would like to ask the Minister if he would tell us, in his reply, if there are many of these travelling creameries in operation at present? What is their capacity for dealing with the work? Do they operate in more than one centre and if so, how many centres do they operate in each morning? I would like to know what generally are their functions? I know, of course, one of their functions is to travel around and separate milk. But I would like to know how much they do; whether they cover a certain distance, and to get some information as to their work generally. I understand this Bill is only necessary in order to give legal sanction to these creameries to operate at all. I would like to get more details in connection with their capacity. I do not believe they can ever take the place of creameries generally, realising as I do the amount of work any of these auxiliary creameries get through.

Mr. Goulding

I take it the intention is to give preference for the establishment of these creameries where the co-operative creameries fail to do their duty. These people will have to get licences. These licences can be revoked if provision is made to meet the demands of the district by establishing auxiliary creameries in it. If the individual is allowed to carry on for a while is it contemplated that the co-operative creameries should be compelled to establish these travelling creameries?

Mr. Curran

There is nothing in the Bill about that.

Mr. Aiken

I am not sure how many gallons the travelling creamery could deal with in a day.

Mr. Curran

Could the Minister say roughly?

Mr. Aiken

No; but we will get the information on the Committee Stage. I am informed by the Department that a travelling creamery is not an economic proposition. It will be operated to discover whether there is a supply of milk forthcoming in certain districts. The only way to find that out is to send a travelling creamery round. Before a creamery is established there are all sorts of wild promises that farmers will supply 3,000 or 4,000 gallons a day. A creamery is then established and they find they cannot get 500 gallons. We want to see if the market is there so that a permanent creamery can be erected in the district. The answer to Deputy Belton is, therefore, that a travelling creamery is not contemplated as an economic proposition, as against a stationery creamery, or that it can compete in cheapness of production. Deputy Goulding need not fear that anyone is going to jump into starting these creameries because they will not pay as well as stationary creameries. A travelling creamery could not possibly separate every man's milk in his yard. One has been operating, I understand, for some time in Kerry. They haul off for two or three months; the farmers bring their milk, it is separated and the travelling creamery takes the cream to its destination. I do not know what range a travelling creamery has, or how many gallons it is able to operate in the day. All these details will be supplied in Committee.

Mr. Belton

I think from the Minister's concluding statement that these creameries are to be used in a kind of prospecting operation to see if a steady supply of milk would be found in a particular district. It is never contemplated that they would act instead of regular creameries.

Mr. Curran

I understand these travelling creameries are not economic, and cannot compete with the ordinary creameries. If that is so some steps should be taken to see that the suppliers do not bear the whole cost of manufacture, so to speak, because if they did, it would not be a fair test as to whether a creamery would be advisable in a certain district or not. It is well known that the cost of production is fairly considerable in connection with creameries. If there is a travelling creamery it is much more expensive than an ordinary creamery, and it would not be a fair test as to whether a creamery would be suitable and would get the supplies necessary for its establishment unless the State would bear some cost of the production while the experiment is being carried out.

Mr. Aiken

There is only one concern or travelling creamery at the moment, and that is run by the Dairy Disposals Board. If they want to find out whether there is a supply of milk available they must go round, and give the same price that farmers would get if supplying milk to a permanent building.

Question—"That the Bill be now read a Second Time"—put and agreed to.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 25th July.