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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Dec 1934

Vol. 54 No. 9

Committee on Finance. - Vote 49—Science and Art.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim Bhreise eile ná raghaidh thar £1,010 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1935, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí na bhFundúireachtaí Eolaíochta agus Ealadhan agus Ildeontaisí-i-gCabhair, etc.

That a further Supplementary sum not exceeding £1,010 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1935, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Institutions of Science and Art and sundry Grants-in-Aid, etc.

The items under sub-heads a (2) and a (3) deal with travel and incidental expenses, which have arisen largely because of extra expenditure in connection with the National Museum. Last year a certain number of excavation schemes were conducted throughout the country. Although the Board of Works is primarily responsible, the practical cost of the schemes being borne on their Vote, certain additional expense fell upon the Museum by reason of the fact of increased travel and subsistence allowance and certain other provision had to be made for some of the officers. The item a (3) also includes certain incidental expenses in connection with the National Library. With regard to item b (3), we are asking for £280 extra in connection with the production of the English-Irish Dictionary which has been in the hands for some years past of Father MacKenna as editor. The editor had anticipated that when the book reached the stage when it would be ready for printing he would be able to dispense with the aid of his assistants; but now he finds it desirable to retain the services of his staff, at least until the first stage of the printing has been completed. The dictionary is at present being printed and we hope to have it ready for publication in May next.

With regard to b (6)—Production of a Sound Film in Irish—the small additional sum for the production of a sound film (or "talkie") in Irish is required to defray certain expenses incurred in the present financial year. The production of the film would have been very much more expensive had we undertaken the work ourselves, but through the collaboration of Mr. Robert Flaherty and the Gainsborough Film Company we were able to get it produced at a comparatively small payment of, I think, £100. The expenses incurred in the present financial year included the cost of a visit made by a representative of the Department to London to advise in the cutting of the film, the payment of a royalty of £20 to British Acoustics, the purchase of a second copy of the print and some other expenses. It is anticipated that the £60 we are now looking for will cover all the expenses in connection with the film. It is hoped to have arrangements completed soon, that the film will be on exhibition early in the new year and that schools and teachers will take the opportunity to see it. I should add that we hope to have some receipts out of the production of the film throughout the country. Out of any receipts that are obtained from the hire of the film, two-thirds will go to the Department and one-third to the distributors who arrange, on behalf of the Department, for its exhibition.

Sub-head b (7) represents the refund of college fees and payment of arrears in respect of a young man who was a former student of the College of Science. The provision is intended to enable the Department to refund fees to this young man and to pay the balance of his scholarship. This student's course was interrupted owing to his arrest and imprisonment in 1922. He held a scholarship which entitled him to free instruction and to a maintenance grant of £66 per annum. When he came out of prison and desired to return to the College, he was refused the unpaid balance of the scholarship (£36 13s. 4d.) and was, in addition, required to pay the usual college fee of £20. The unpaid amount, plus the additional charge, is now being refunded to him. No charge was made against him at the time, and, in view of the general policy of the Government, I consider— and the Minister for Finance agrees with me—that we should refund this amount.

The most important sub-head is sub-head b (8)—the Irish Folklore Commission. The Government has been of opinion for some time that an organised effort should be made without delay to collect as much as possible of the remnants of our folklore, especially the oral literature in the Irish language which is being gradually lost on the death of the older Irish speakers in the Gaeltacht. After careful consideration it has been decided to establish a commission and to give this body as wide a discretion as possible in the work assigned to it. We hope to have the assistance of the Folklore Institute as members of the new commission, and to strengthen that body by the addition of some others, including representatives from the Departments of Education and Finance. It is not proposed to interfere in any way with the useful work at present being done by the Folklore Society of Ireland. On the contrary, the new commission will be authorised to make a grant of £250 to the society to assist in the advancement of this work. The intention is that it should be aided as far as possible in the work of publication. A great amount of matter has been collected already but not published, and this £250 will be utilised, it is hoped, in order to increase publication. It is proposed that a sum of £3,000 per annum be placed at the disposal of the commission for a period of five years—in addition to the sum of £250 already mentioned. From this sum the commission will be required to defray all expenses in connection with its work. The intention is to establish a Grant-in-Aid, so that the expenditure will not be subject to the audit of the Comptroller and Auditor-General nor will any unexpended balance be surrendered at the close of the financial year. We hope, therefore, to give the fullest possible discretion to the new commission in pursuance of this work, and the present Estimate of £813, which I am asking the Dáil to pass, is based on the belief that the commission will be able to start work by the 1st January next.

The Minister says that the English-Irish Dictionary will be available for publication, probably, in May. Are we to understand from that that it may be available to the public in May?

There is another question I should like to ask the Minister. There was a suggestion some time ago that a small vocabulary should be published, based on the experience of the Dáil Translation Staff; in other words, that it should be based entirely on the language used for the purposes of translation of our Acts and regulations. I think that the reason that was not gone on with was that it was suggested that a considerable amount of the words used in connection with these Acts and regulations would be matter used in this English-Irish dictionary. I should like the Minister to tell us whether the nature of the new English-Irish dictionary is such as to interfere with or prevent the publication of a small volume dealing with the technical language as it is used in the preparation of the various Acts and regulations. Personally, I can imagine an ordinary English-Irish dictionary being very much encumbered with a lot of the matter that has found itself in our legislation; while, on the other hand, I can see that it would be most valuable to have a small separate publication that would deal with the technical matter of these Acts.

A legal vocabulary.

Yes. I should also like to know from the Minister whether this sum of £3,250 will be available every year—£250 of which is to be passed on to the new commission—and if the £813 will be spent on work which is actually being done at present and will, in fact, be continued in such a volume as will utilise that amount of money between this and the end of the financial year. If so, I should like to know in whose hands will the control of the work be. I understand that the Minister has not yet appointed the full commission; but if there is a temporary commission acting at the present time, I should like to know from the Minister who constitute that body and also who is the chairman.

With regard to the latter point, the control and planning of the work of the commission will be the responsibility of the director. He has not actually been appointed, although I think the Deputy is probably aware of who he is. He will lay out the general plan and the commission will have a certain general supervision. The intention is, however, that the director should be responsible for the work and that he should be given the fullest latitude in selecting his field workers and laying out his programme. It is proposed that the £813 should be spent on new work and not on work that is being done at present. In connection with the new work of the Folklore Commission, I think that a number of workers will be taken on to collect material through the country, and that they will practically have to be appointed whole time. That will account for the largest part of the expenditure of this £3,000. There will be other incidental expenses, but I think the main expenditure will be in connection with the appointment of workers through the country who will practically have to be full time

With regard to the dictionary, I do not know what the position is with regard to the technical side. I think the opinion was held, and that the Deputy is correct in stating, that the feeling was that we should hold over the question of a dictionary appropriate to the needs of the Oireachtas and folklore until such time as the large dictionary was completed. I can promise the Deputy that I will go into the matter again. I think it was arranged provisionally, but it may not have been done so far, to make the existing folklore and the Parliamentary terms available at least to members of the Oireachtas in the Dáil library. We doubt whether it would be worth while publishing the existing terminology which has been classified and is in typescript. A certain number of copies can be made available. It is extremely bulky as the thing is in typescript. We did not consider that it would be useful to print the classified dictionary of Parliamentary terms until an opportunity had been given to re-edit this, but we can make it available I think to members of the Oireachtas.

Am I to understand that the director of the Folklore Commission will be appointed by the Minister for Education, that he will have the main responsibility for carrying on the work, and that the commission itself will act more or less in a consultative capacity rather than in the capacity of directing him?

The intention is that the director should have full control over the actual administration. The programme which he will lay out will have to be passed by the commission. An annual report, I think, will have to be made to the Minister for Education. Within that framework, the intention I think is to give the director the fullest possible freedom.

Who appoints him?

The Executive Council.

Question put and agreed to.
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