Very often motions of a similar nature to this are brought from Opposition benches, but very seldom has a motion in the course of progress been crowned with the success that this one has been crowned with, because since it was introduced, and not merely since it was introduced but since it was last before the House, the Executive Council by their attitude have shown that it was one which we were fully justified in bringing, one which has compelled the Government to alter its previously-held views, and to change its practice in accordance with the spirit of the motion we are now discussing. It had been for a long time the cry from every Government platform that it was impossible to get the British people to take the quota off; that it was impossible to get the British to enlarge the quota which was put on in the interests of British farmers; and that nobody could expect the British Government at the present time to act against the interests of their farmers. Indeed, Sir, as I daresay you will recollect, we had a very long speech from the Minister for Defence, in which he explained how logically and sound was the attitude, from their point of view, that the British Government had taken up. I am glad that under the pressure of this motion, and I daresay under the pressure of the general economic condition of this country, the Government has been compelled to alter its attitude, and negotiations have been entered into, between the Government of the Irish Free State and the British Government, which have resulted in a very considerable enlargement of the number of cattle that are now allowed to enter the British market. Personally I welcome that change of attitude on the part of the Government very warmly and very sincerely and I hope the Government, having now changed the very unwise attitude which they took up some years ago, and which they followed up for a very considerable time, will continue in the changed and, in my humble judgment, that very much improved state of mind in which they now are. I hope that negotiations similar to those which have recently been carried on with the British Government will again be carried on, and that results incomparably better that the results which have already been obtained may be obtained from those negotiations. I do not for one moment say, and nobody can say, that the Government negotiations up to the present have been crowned with complete success. In my judgment, at any rate, the Government have not yet procured an adequate quota. In my judgment the Government could, to the immense advantage of the farmers of this country, obtain a much larger quota than they have got at the present moment. It must be borne in mind too, when we are considering the results of those negotiations, that they are bought at some very considerable expense to the country. Under the old quota system the British Government was evidently satisfied that they were collecting the total amount of the land annuities in an indirect fashion. Now, with the enlarged quota, they will collect a considerably larger amount.
I would suggest to the Government that in further negotiations they should endeavour to have the duty upon cattle certainly reduced, if not—as I believe could be done by sane and sensible negotiations—completely abolished. I should like to hear from some member of the Government Front Bench—it cannot of course be the Minister for Agriculture, as he has already intervened in this debate—a statement that they will endeavour to see, through sensible negotiation, that the duties upon our cattle are very substantially reduced, or, better still, entirely abolished. Even as it stands, with all its imperfections upon its head, this Treaty which the Government has entered into with Great Britain will prove of benefit to the farming community. I believe that every Deputy in this House who is either financially interested in farming or is interested because he represents a rural constituency will welcome the result of these negotiations. There are certain matters which have been brought up in this House, certain speeches which were made from the Government benches in the course of this debate, and also a reply made by President de Valera to a question put to him to-day by Deputy Brennan, which seemed to show complete ignorance on the Government side not merely of farming conditions but of all market conditions, and of the elementary principles of political economy. I should like to deal with that for just a few minutes. I daresay the Government and Deputies belonging to the Fianna Fáil Party would not like to have the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance taken as a typical Fianna Fáil mind. I do not know whether he is or whether he is not, but I venture to think that not many of them would so regard him. Nevertheless, I must deal with one of the absurdities with which that Parliamentary Secretary so frequently exhausts the patience of this House. He is perpetually saying that Ireland has got one market; that the one market is England, and that, therefore, Ireland can get for her cattle no better price than England wishes to give. That is complete, absolute nonsense; everybody who has the smallest idea of the cattle trade knows it to be the most absolute, complete and entire nonsense. It is a doctrine so nonsensical that I wonder even the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance had the audacity to put it before this House. Now, what happens? There is no trading between England and Ireland. Ireland is never a seller and England is never a buyer except when Governments negotiate. What happens is that individual Irishmen deal with individual Englishmen in English markets. They compete in the English markets, selling their Irish cattle against Scotch cattle and against English cattle. There is no such thing as one collective English buyer and one collective Irish seller, and everybody knows it. It is a series of individual transactions in which one individual Irishman endeavours to get the best price he can from one or two, or possibly ten or possibly twenty—if there is a rush on cattle—competing English buyers. There is no such thing as one English buyer. It is Englishmen buying Irish cattle in keen competition amongst themselves in Birkenhead or in Carlisle, just as it is Irishmen buying Irish cattle in keen competition amongst themselves in Ballinasloe, or, if you like, in the Dublin market. There is no such thing as the Irish cattle having only one market. There are very many different markets in England itself where Irish cattle are sold, and everybody who knows the first thing about the Irish cattle trade knows that.
I do sincerely hope that the Parliamentary Secretary will not again exhaust the patience of this House by putting forward, as sound economic arguments, statements which every single person with average intelligence knows are at variance with the facts. In his answer to-day, President de Valera also seemed to think that Irish cattle could not be sold in increased numbers in England if the quota were taken off because the English people would all buy English cattle first—I am dealing now with store cattle—and only buy Irish cattle after the supply of English store cattle had been exhausted. But, of course, nothing of the kind can happen and nothing of the kind ever will happen. What will happen, as everybody knows, is that an English buyer will go into a market. He will see there Irish cattle and English cattle. He will decide as to which of those cattle best suit his needs. He will make up his mind on their appearance, suitability, and respective prices, as to which lot he will buy. That is what happens and always must happen in every fair. The idea that all English buyers are so tremendously patriotic that they will buy unsuitable English store cattle when they can get more suitable Irish cattle simply shows that Deputies or Presidents, or anybody else who puts forward arguments of that nature, never bought or sold a beast and never saw one bought or sold. When you hear nonsense talked of that nature it would be very much better if the men who had never been on a market and had never seen cattle sold would not get up to lecture this House and make prophecies as to what will happen to markets, because the only result is that they make themselves a laughing-stock to those who are familiar with what happens at fairs and markets. I believe that every single head of cattle that is produced, or can be produced, here would get a sale in England at a very much higher price than they are going to make in Ireland to-day—pounds a head more, the worst of them.
This treaty that has been entered into is, as far as we are concerned, very indefinite and very vague, because we do not know the increased number of fat cattle and of store cattle that will be allowed into England. So far as I know, we have never had an authoritative statement from the Government on that. I would be glad if the Minister for Agriculture could tell me how many of these increased licences will be given to fat cattle and how many to store cattle. The whole country, I believe, would be obliged for the information.
