Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 31 Oct 1935

Vol. 59 No. 2

Control of Imports: Quota Orders. - Motions of Approval.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Lemass)

I move:—

Go gceaduíonn Dáil Eireann leis seo an tOrdú chun Iomportálanna do Rialú (Quota Uimh. 1) (Leasú Uimh. 2), 1935, do rinne an Ard-Chomhairle an 18adh lá de Mheitheamh, 1935, fén Acht chun Iomportálanna do Rialú, 1934 (Uimh. 12 de 1934).

That Dáil Eireann hereby approves of Control of Imports (Quota No. 1) (Amendment No. 2) Order, 1935, made on the 18th day of June, 1935, by the Executive Council under the Control of Imports Act, 1934 (No. 12 of 1934).

The Quota No. 1 Order, as Deputies will remember, regulates the importation of a certain range of sizes of outer covers for motor tyres. That quota order was made with a view to ensuring to the Dunlop factory at Cork the whole, or approximately the whole, market in those sizes. The factory found itself in a position to be able to undertake the complete manufacture of certain sizes, of the more popular sizes, in the first instance, and in order to prevent licences which were issued under the Quota No. 1 Order being used for the importation of these sizes of tyres, it was decided by the Executive Council to make this amendment order. Its effect is to remove from the scope of Quota Order No. 1 the more popular sizes which the Dunlop factory was commencing to manufacture, so that in the quota period which commenced on 1st July, 1935, licences issued under the Quota No. 1 Order were not valid for the importation of the popular sizes.

The next resolution on the Order Paper deals with the quota order which was made simultaneously and which covers the sizes of tyres which were excluded from the No. 1 Order by the amendment order which the Dáil is now being asked to approve.

General Mulcahy

Did I understand the Minister to say that Quota No. 1 Order put no restriction on the type of tyres that are now mentioned in this amendment order?

Mr. Lemass

Yes, it did. The Quota No. 1 Order applied to all motor car tyres of the sizes mentioned in it. When Dunlop's factory started they commenced to make a certain range of sizes, but not all the sizes mentioned in the first order, and therefore it was decided to have two orders instead of one, one relating to the sizes of tyres that the Dunlop factory were making and the other to the sizes of tyres they were not yet making. The effect of the amendment order was to exclude from the first order the particular sizes which the Dunlop factory had commenced to make and another order was made dealing with these sizes, so that licences under the original order could not be used for the importation of the sizes that were being made. Such licences were restricted under the Quota No. 19 Order and for very limited quantities.

General Mulcahy

Will the Minister say if this No. 19 Order now covers the whole range of motor tyres?

Mr. Lemass

The whole range that it is proposed to make here. There are certain sizes not covered by any order, very unusual sizes.

General Mulcahy

The whole range of tyres normally used in the country is now covered by the quota orders?

Mr. Lemass

Yes.

General Mulcahy

And these are intended to lead up to a position in which there will be a total prohibition of the import of motor tyres?

Mr. Lemass

Quite.

General Mulcahy

Can the Minister give us any idea as to the percentage of the requirements of the country that will be turned out in the present year in Cork, and can he give us an idea of the amount of employment in the Cork factory and the amount of wages?

Mr. Lemass

So far as the size of tyres which are now covered by Quota No. 19 Order—that is, the size excluded from the No. 1 Order by this Amendment Order—is concerned, practically the total requirements of the country are being manufactured in Cork at the present time. Only a nominal quota has been fixed under that order, and even that nominal quota will disappear in the next quota period. I could not say precisely to what extent the manufacture of the other sizes has been proceeded with, hut it is being proceeded with, and at some stage a reduction in the quota under the main order will also be effected. I understand there are 500 or 600 hands at present employed in the Dunlop factory at Cork, but not all of them would be employed on the manufacture of tyres affected by this order. They would be employed on the production of other goods produced there. I could not say the number engaged on the production of this range of goods only.

Question agreed to.

Mr. Lemass

I move:

Go gceaduíonn Dáil Eireann leis an tOrdú chun lomportálanna do Rialú (Quota Uimh. 19), 1935, do rinne an Ard-Chomhairle an 18adh lá de Mheitheamh, 1935, fén Acht chun Iomportálanna do Rialú, 1934 (Uimh. 12 de 1934).

That Dáil Eireann hereby approves of Control of Imports (Quota No. 19) Order, 1935, made on the 18th day of June, 1935, by the Executive Council under the Control of Imports Act, 1934 (No. 12 of 1934).

This motion is consequential on the other one.

General Mulcahy

Why is it that it is in the case of tyres that were not intended to be covered originally by the quota order that the greatest production is now being carried on in Cork?

Mr. Lemass

They were all covered by the original order, and it was contemplated that production of all sizes would commence—in fact, production of certain sizes commenced first, and that necessitated this change. But all the tyres covered by Quota No. 19 Order were originally covered by Quota No. 1 Order until the amendment was effected.

General Mulcahy

This makes a separate restricted quota?

Mr. Lemass

Yes.

Question agreed to.

Mr. Lemass

I move:—

Go gceaduíonn Dáil Eireann leis seo an tOrdú chun Iomportálanna do Rialú (Quota Uimh. 20), 1935, do rinne an Ard-Chomhairle an 18adh lá de Mheitheamh, 1935, fén Acht chun Iomportálanna do Rialú, 1934 (Uimh. 12 de 1934).

That Dáil Eireann hereby approves of Control of Imports (Quota No. 20) Order, 1935, made on the 18th day of June, 1935, by the Executive Council under the Control of Imports Act, 1934 (No. 12 of 1934).

This order relates to tomatoes, and under it the importation of raw tomatoes into the Saorstát is prohibited. The order was made at the instance of the Department of Agriculture, and was designed to restrict the importation of tomatoes during the season of home production with a view to securing the full market for the home produce. The period of home production is approximately the period from 24th June to 31st October in each year. Under the quota order this period covers approximately the preliminary period and the first and second quota periods. In the preliminary periods, which extended from the 19th June to the 14th July, licences to the extent of 11,425 cwts. were issued. In the first quota period, which extended from the 15th July to the 31st August, licences for 5,500 cwts. were issued. In the period from 1st September to the 31st October licences for 7,088 cwts. were issued.

The quantities in each case were fixed in consultation with the Department of Agriculture, and were such as were believed by that Department to be adequate, with the help of the home supply, to meet all the normal requirements of customers. For the third quota period, which commenced on the 1st November and ends on the 23rd June, 1936, and during which no home grown tomatoes will be available, a quota of 56,000 cwts. has been fixed. That will meet all requirements without restriction during that period. There are 84 importers of tomatoes on the register, and they have all received licences allocating the quota amongst them in accordance with the provisions of the Act.

General Mulcahy

I think the Minister might have given us some information why the quota was imposed in such a way as to create all the confusion for traders that was created. I think the Minister must have some recollection of the very great confusion that was caused in the trade. As far as I know, quite a number of traders suffered substantial losses through the way in which their business was interfered with.

Mr. Lemass

That is not our information. We were informed that a number of traders made excessive profits, and that was the whole trouble.

General Mulcahy

It would be well, if that were so, that the Minister would let us know something about it, and clear the minds of Deputies. The whole public position created at the time conveyed the impression that the importers of tomatoes were thrown into a very great state of confusion and that they did, in fact, suffer losses.

I should like to know if the Minister, arising out of the circumstances, has had any further consultation with the Department of Agriculture as to whether the period of the quota is the period of home production. The Minister, or, at any rate, the Minister for Agriculture, will probably have received complaints from some of the tomato growers in the South that towards the end of October they were left with substantial quantities of surplus tomatoes on their hands. Some explanation, I think, might be given, too, as to why, if this is a very protective system, the quota for tomatoes to be imported during the September-October period this year allowed for an import of a bigger quantity of tomatoes than were imported into the country during the same period last year and why, during the period that is now fixed, the third quota period, extending to 23rd June next, there still is a bigger quota fixed than the total import during the same period last year. If the thing does bear upon the increased agricultural production and increased earnings for the agricultural community, now that the quota order has got into a systematic way of working, as far as tomatoes are concerned, and the confusion that arose in the earlier part of the year is not likely to arise again, it would be interesting to hear how the quota which is larger than the imports of last year is going to improve the situation for the growers of home tomatoes.

Mr. Lemass

So far as the market is concerned, there is evidence that the consumption of tomatoes is increasing considerably here. In fact, in this year, despite the restriction of imports during the period in which home-grown tomatoes were available and despite the increased production of home-grown tomatoes, the actual quantity imported was not less than last year, and it is anticipated that the total quantity that will be imported during the year will be in excess of the quantity imported last year. Whatever the cause of it—whether it is due to change in taste or any other reason—the consumption of tomatoes is increasing considerably. The quota order was made on 19th June and the restrictions operated immediately. It was, however, apparent that, due to adverse weather conditions and to the fact that the home crop took somewhat longer to ripen and to prepare for market than was anticipated, there was a period immediately following the making of the order in which imports were being restricted and home supplies were not available. That situation could not quite have been foreseen and it caused some confusion, confusion, however, which was, I think, exaggerated by certain importers for the purpose of securing higher prices for tomatoes they had imported and making undue profits.

That is a situation, however, which is over now and which in any event is not likely to be repeated, firstly, because the working of the quota machinery is now better known by everybody, and, secondly, because there will be a much higher production of home-grown tomatoes in the next year. The Department of Agriculture has, as the Deputy is probably aware, a number of schemes for the encouragement of tomato growing, and particularly schemes for granting loans for the growing of tomatoes in Gaeltacht areas. A number of these loans have been taken up and tomato production is being undertaken on a fairly large scale in these areas. The market for tomatoes is quite a considerable one and there is no reason why the whole of it, or a very substantial part of it, should not be supplied from home sources. It is true that we could not produce tomatoes at home as cheaply as they have been sent in from some countries. That is why the Control of Imports Act restrictions on imports are necessary rather than that the import duty should be raised for the purpose of restricting imports.

It is better that the duty should be maintained and imports subjected to quantitative regulation which permits of the imported tomatoes being kept off the market except in limited quantities. There are periods of the year in which the Irish supply is available so that the Irish supply can be quickly disposed of and at other periods of the year, like the present, imported tomatoes are allowed in in practically whatever quantity the public may desire to bring them in. It is not intended that there should be any restriction whatever on the importation of tomatoes at this time of the year and that is why a very large quota has been fixed, and even that quota, can be increased if there is any evidence that it is not sufficient to enable all requirements to be met, until June of next year when the home supply is again available and when restriction will again come into operation.

General Mulcahy

So that the position, so far as this year is concerned, is that either traders in tomatoes were considerably inconvenienced and lost a certain amount of money, or Irish purchasers had to pay through the nose for their tomatoes.

Mr. Lemass

Only for a limited period. The position was quickly rectified by the making of an additional quota order.

General Mulcahy

All because of a blunder on the part of the Department of Agriculture in not knowing anything about the time of the ripening of the tomato crop here.

Mr. Lemass

The blunder of the clerk of the weather.

General Mulcahy

And the blunder of the Department of Industry and Commerce in not knowing what the consumption of tomatoes in the country was, because, from what the Minister says, there appears to have been no reason why a tight quota should have been imposed at the particular time it was imposed. We simply had a blunder by two Departments which penalised the traders and penalised the public.

Mr. Lemass

We can regulate a number of things, but not the weather.

General Mulcahy

The Department of Agriculture seem to think that they can regulate a lot of things, whatever about the Department of Industry and Commerce.

Question agreed to.

Mr. Lemass

I move:—

That Dáil Eireann hereby approves of Imports (Quota No 21) Order, 1935, made on the 12th day of July, 1935, by the Executive Council under the Control of Imports Act, 1934 (No. 12 of 1934).

Under this Order, the importation, of soap, soap powders and soap substitutes is prohibited. Substantial progress in the development of the soap industry had been made before the imposition of quota restrictions, and these restrictions were imposed with a view to securing the utmost possible degree of production within the country. The annual imports of the commodities affected by the Order in 1934 amounted to 27,400 cwts. During the preliminary period, from 13th July to 18th August, licences amounting to 834 cwts. were issued to cover goods in transit, and also to meet what was regarded as a fair proportion of the requirements of importers during the period. For the first quota period, from 19th August to 30th November, a quota of 3,500 cwts. was appointed. That meant a reduction of approximately 80 per cent. of previous imports during the same period of last year. For the second quota period, from 1st December to 31st May, a quota of 3,270 cwts. has been appointed, effecting a reduction of approximately 75 per cent. of the imports during the corresponding period of last year. In arriving at each quota, we have taken care to provide a sufficient quantity to enable adequate quantities of indispensable soap, soap powders and soap substitutes not yet manufactured in the country to be imported. There are a large number of importers on the register—83 all told—and the essential requirements of these importers are being adequately met by the licences issued.

General Mulcahy

Unlike tomatoes, the consumption of which is going up in the country, when we are dealing with soap, and candles, which are the subject of the next quota order, we are dealing with commodities the consumption of which is apparently going down in the country. In putting before us quota orders reducing, so far as soap is concerned, the import to 20 or 25 per cent. of what the imports of last year were, we should like some indication from the Minister as to what is happening in the industry with regard to production, the number of persons employed, the wages paid, and some explanation as to why it is that the consumption of these articles appears to be going down. Since the Minister is putting these orders before the House, the House would like some information on those points, which are sticking out, in relation to soap and candles.

Mr. Lemass

I do not know that the consumption of soap is going down. It may be that the Irish soap is better than the imported article and that, if a person is cleaned with that soap, he remains clean longer.

General Mulcahy

I have known it to last longer.

Mr. Lemass

There is sufficient production of soap here to meet all the requirements of the country, whatever these requirements may be and however they may vary from time to time. I cannot give precise figures as to the employment at different periods. The Deputy has, I think, been supplied with figures as to employment up to the last date for which reliable statistics are available. The industry has no difficulty in supplying all the requirements of the country except requirements in certain classes of soap which are used in small quantities for industrial purposes and which are being imported under licences which we have issued under the quota order.

Mr. T. Kelly

They are not washing dirty linen now.

General Mulcahy

The fact remains that up to the latest date for which statistics are available—1933—the consumption of soap and candles has gone down by 11 per cent. If the Minister, in introducing the quota, examined the situation, is he able to tell us what the increase in employment is going to be or whether the position is that, because of the durability of the soap, there will be a falling-off in the consumption? Is employment in the soap and candle industry likely to be stabilized at the present numbers?

Mr. Lemass

It must be assumed that we are very near the maximum. There is not much room for development unless the habits of the people change.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Lemass

I move:

Go gceaduíonn Dáil Eireann leis seo an tOrdú chun Iomportálanna do Rialú (Quota Uimh. 22), 1935, do rinne an Ard-Chomhairle an 12adh lá d'Iúl, 1935, fén Acht chun lomportálanna do Rialú, 1934 (Uimh. 12 de 1934).

That Dáil Eireann hereby approves of Control of Imports (Quota No. 22) Order, 1935, made on the 12th day of July, 1935, by the Executive Council under the Control of Imports Act, 1934 (No. 12 of 1934).

This order deals with candles. It was made at the same time as the order affecting soap. Soap and candles are generally made by the same firms. It appears that some tapers and night-lights, required here, could not be made here. Only nominal quotas were fixed in the earlier periods. Similar reductions to those in the case of soap are being effected in the import of candles. There will be a reduction of 8 per cent. in the quota period which extends to the 31st May next. Certain types of tapers and night-lights are not manufactured here and, in so far as there is any demand for them here, the quota fixed is more than adequate to enable them to be, supplied by the importers.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. Lemass

I move:

Go gceaduíonn Dáil Eireann leis seo an tOrdú chun lomportálanna do Rialú (Quota Uimh. 23), 1935, do rinne an Ard-Chomhairle an 2adh lá de Lúnasa, 1935, fén Acht chun lomportálanna do Rialú, 1934 (Uimh. 12 de 1934).

That Dáil Eireann hereby approves of Control of Imports (Quota No. 23) Order, 1935, made on the 2nd day of August, 1935, by the Executive Council under the Control of Imports Act, 1934 (No. 12 of 1934).

Under this quota order, the importation of raw onions is prohibited. Like the order I have already dealt with in regard to tomatoes, this order was made at the instance of the Department of Agriculture with a view to procuring a market for home-grown onions during the period of production here. Licences were issued during the preliminary period to 1st September for 8,987 cwts. During the first quota period, which extended from the 2nd September to 31st October, 20,000 cwts. were appointed as the quota, this being the quantity estimated by the Department of Agriculture to be sufficient, when supplemented by the home supply, to provide for all the normal requirements of the country. The licences issued for the first quota period provided for 19,996 cwts. During the second quota period, which commences on the 1st November and extends to 31st July, 1936, a quota of 148,000 cwts., has been appointed. This is estimated to be sufficient for all the normal requirements of importers without restriction during the second quota period.

General Mulcahy

Will the Minister say what percentage of the imports for the same period last year these 20,000 cwts. represents and will he tell us what the consumption of raw onions in the country is likely to be, because the quota fixed for the coming period appears to be substantially greater than the amount fixed for the same period last year?

Mr. Lemass

I would not say that consumption is going up on that account. The quota has been fixed for as much as is thought to be reasonably required, because it is not intended that there should be any restriction whatever on importation until the end of the quota period now commencing and the beginning of the period during-which home supplies are available. It is only during that limited time of the year that there is any restriction on imports and quotas are fixed on the basis of the information supplied by the Department of Agriculture as to amount of home-grown onions likely to be available.

General Mulcahy

Is it on the advice of the Minister for Local Government and Public Health that we are invited to eat 35,000 more cwts. of raw onions between now and 31st July?

Mr. Lemass

It would be a good idea.

General Mulcahy

What conclusion are we to draw from the invitation?

Mr. Lemass

I have drawn no conclusion.

Question put and agreed to.

General Mulcahy

I suggest that the Minister move the adjournment of the debate now. He had difficulty in getting some information for us, and he may have it next week.

Mr. Lemass

I am willing to have the debate adjourned now.

Debate adjourned.