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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Aug 1936

Vol. 63 No. 19

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Coal-Cattle Pact and Cattle Export Licences.

asked the Minister for Agriculture whether he is aware that the number of licences for fat cattle issued for the County Westmeath during the month (1) of July, 1935, was 861, and for the month of July, 1936, was 756; and (2) during the month of August, 1935, was 1,513, and for the month of August, 1936, was only 948; and if he will state the reason for this decrease, in view of the fact that under the recent coal-cattle pact each county should receive a larger number of licences than last year?

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state the number of fat cattle export licences issued to producers since the coal-cattle pact, 1936, and the number of similar licences issued to producers during the corresponding months of 1935.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he can assign any cause for the decrease in the number of licences for fat cattle issued for 1936 as compared with 1935.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he can state whether there was any provision in the Coal-Cattle Pact to issue a specified quota of licences for each month or whether the reciprocity of the Pact had reference to the whole year's trading only.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he can state whether the Coal-Cattle Pact provided for a proper balance of quotas or licences for the export to Britain of fat cattle, store cattle, dry cows and bulls or whether the Pact only provided for a quota of cattle undenominated against a certain amount of coal of a like value.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that in August, 1935, 722 licences were allotted to County Dublin whereas in August, 1936, only 472 licences were allotted to that county and if he can explain why the number was reduced.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that the number of licences applied for in County Dublin in August, 1936, has been 4,500 and if he can state where a market can be found in August, 1936, for the surplus fat cattle in County Dublin; also if he is aware that County Dublin provides a considerable portion of the market for the store cattle raised in the Midlands, West and South of the Saorstát and the loss of a market for Dublin fat cattle will have serious reactions on the rest of the country.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state the number of fat cattle licences received from the British Government for each month in the years 1935 and 1936 and the exact numbers allotted to each county for each month of those years.

Dr. Ryan

I propose to answer question No. 14 by Deputy Fagan and questions Nos. 17 to 23, inclusive, by Deputy Belton together.

Will the Minister not answer my questions?

Dr. Ryan

I am going to answer them.

One omnibus answer will not cover the lot. I could put down my queries in one question, but the Minister should not try to slip out of it in that way.

Dr. Ryan

The Deputy is giving expression to his dissatisfaction before he hears the answer. I am going to give a full and comprehensive answer to the whole lot. Question No. 14 by Deputy Charles Fagan and questions Nos. 17-23, inclusive, by Deputy Patrick Belton, appear to have been suggested by the recent shortage in the number of fat cattle licences issued to county committees of agriculture. The detailed figures in respect of 1935 and 1936 asked for by the Deputies are not comparable, the method of distribution having changed in the meantime, and, therefore, I think it would be more satisfactory to explain generally that the recent shortage in the number of licences issued has arisen from the fact that a very large number of the licences issued to the county committees in the first half of this year had not been used. In the circumstances, it was not considered until now that a substantial increase in the number of licences would be of advantage. I may say, however, that the question of an increased number of licences for the remainder of this year is under consideration at the moment, and it is expected that satisfactory arrangements in that connection will be made.

Arising out of the Minister's reply, I understand that he is considering the question of the issuing of licences——

Hear, hear.

Dr. Ryan

The issue by the British Government.

Has the Minister any licences to issue? Are not the licences controlled by the British Government?

Dr. Ryan

No.

Then am I to understand from the Minister's reply that he has licences in his office and that he is deliberately holding them up and does he realise that while we have 4,500 fat cattle to export we are only getting licences for the export of 472 fat cattle? Has the Minister licences in his office?

Dr. Ryan

No.

Well then it is the British Government that must be considering the question. I knew that the Minister wanted to get away from this question. The Minister included in his answer replies to questions 17 to 23 which I asked, and he did not answer one of them. I wish to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

Dr. Ryan

Oh!

It is contemptible for the Minister for Agriculture to be sneering at this matter as he is——

That is not a supplementary question.

The Minister said in his reply that in the early part of the year too many licences were issued.

I hope the electors of County Wexford will read that.

Dr. Ryan

That was the object of putting down the question.

The Minister said too many licences were issued in, I think, May and June and that he was considering bringing them up-to-date. Are we to understand that the Minister issued too many licences in May and June and too few in July and August? But the Minister is aware, I am sure, that he issued only 900 in 1936 as against 1,600 in 1935. I want to know if the Minister would consider a second issue for Westmeath in view of the shortage of licences at present, because I know there are plenty of cattle to be sold in Westmeath and they could not be sold in the Dublin market last week owing to the shortage of licences?

Dr. Ryan

I am aware of that.

Would the Minister tell us plainly and concisely what is the reason for the present shortage of licences?

Dr. Ryan

I did set out very concisely the reason for the shortage and Deputy Belton was not satisfied with the concise way in which I stated it.

Is it a fact that the Minister is now negotiating with the British Government to get from them an increased number of licences for the export of fat cattle to the British market?

Dr. Ryan

I do not know what the Deputy means by an increased number.

Is the Minister at the present moment requesting the British Government to give us more licences for the export of our fat cattle than we have got up to the present?

Dr. Ryan

I am asking the British Government to give us all the licences we require.

If the Minister is doing that then I say that he ought to be encouraged and more power to his elbow. I am sure Deputy Belton would be anxious to assist the Minister in every way he could when the Minister is taking that action. But I put it to the Minister now that it would be better if he were to tell the House quite frankly that we are negotiating with the British Government to get a higher quota for our fat cattle than we were getting a month ago?

Dr. Ryan

Have I not already told the Deputy that?

No; that is not what the Minister told us. The Minister is evidently trying to cover up something. I am trying to get from the Minister an elucidation of the cryptic answer he gave the House on the question about export licences just now.

I want to assure the Minister that there is nothing at all disgraceful in trying to get from the British Government more licences for the export of fat cattle than we have got up to the present. I am sure the Minister now realises that the livestock industry should not be destroyed in 100 days?

Dr. Ryan

I always realised that.

Are we to understand that we are to have more licences for the export of fat cattle within a week or a fortnight?

Dr. Ryan

Yes.

Are we to have them in a week or so?

Dr. Ryan

Possibly not until the 1st of September.

Is the Minister aware that the Dublin Fat Cattle Market was held up last week, that the purchase of cattle for export to Germany was lighter, and that instead of a shortage of licences for export to England the numbers should have been increased?

Dr. Ryan

Deputies may have other reasons for raising this question now.

Not at all. We are speaking in the interests of the farmers who are fattening stock.

We have good reasons for raising it.

Dr. Ryan

Considering that we issued 20,000 too many in the earlier part of the year and that the shortage only came last week——

And that the Minister is doing his best to repair the error——

Is this matter to be discussed on the adjournment? If it is I do not see what is the object of these questions now.

It will be discussed in Wexford.

Yes, and there might be an increase in the numbers of those who will discuss it in Wexford.

Dr. Ryan

We are in communication with the British Government for extra licences.

More power to the Minister. That is what we want.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state the reason why licences for fat cattle for the Counties Meath and Kildare were not issued to the farmers in time for the Dublin Cattle Market on Thursday, the 6th August; and if he is aware that farmers in the Midlands have suffered losses owing to this fact?

Dr. Ryan

The August licences were issued by my Department to all county committees of agriculture on the 29th July and the subsequent arrangements for the distribution of these licences to cattle owners were made by these committees.

Will the Minister see that the licences will be issued in time for the first market in the month in which the licences will be issued?

Dr. Ryan

As a matter of fact, circulars have been issued asking the county committees to get them out as quickly as possible.

They were not in time for the British market on the last occasion.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state whether he is aware that a man from Kerry was able to sell 200 licences for fat cattle, while the farmers of the Midlands are without licences for their cattle.

Dr. Ryan

I have no knowledge of any such case as that mentioned by the Deputy. If particulars of the case in question can be furnished to me I will have the matter investigated further.

The matter appeared in the public Press; the question was referred to at a meeting of the cattle traders on last Wednesday. Does not the Minister think that this matter should be investigated by him? The statement was made by Mr. O'Connor at the meeting last Wednesday.

Dr. Ryan

That is right but we want more precise particulars.

Would the Minister say how many licences were issued in Kerry and how many fat cattle were exported for the corresponding period from Kerry?

That is a separate question.

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